Liliana is actually a recent addition. Cabal therapy is usually your disruption of choice since it really is 2 discards in one. With some legacy experience you can usually name what is in there hand. When going in blind always name brainstorm.
The discard is useful primary for making a hole and exploiting it. Though ripping their hand apart by turn 2 is a good way to win. You really are just attritioning them out of the game with tiny guys and flashback spells. Why I like young pyro. He can just end the games with an army of tokens from all the discard we've casted.
I would invest in the deck in heartbeat. I actually was borrowing it for the event, but I play it at every local event I can.
I unfortnelt do not have modo. If I did I probably would of had a more refined list, and most likely would of done better. My loses in the event came from just not knowing my important cards in the match up. Though I still stand tall that this deck is a contender.
Hiya all! So just posting here since I'm the one from the deck tech. Plus as you could see from it, I'm a huge fan of this deck, and have been playing around with it for awhile.
Couple thoughts on things that I've seen in the past few pages:
The reanimator hybrid I'm not a fan of. I see the original deck being weak to graveyard hate, and going down this path just makes you even more vulnerable. Sure you get some blowouts, but not enough for me to like it
Necromancer stockpile would of been good, if it coasted less. unfortunately its 2 to cast and 2 to activate so womp womp. to bad to, i really want to dis card gravecrawler and then bring it back FOR VALUE.
So some ideas that Ive been kicking around with people. Ravens crime/flame jab were thoughts on entomb tutor targets. Just to get more value out of entomb engines. Which definitely over performed last weekend. Lillian also did some work, though that may be old hat by now.
Any questions for me? (and for those who want to know i went 5-4 in the event.)
Im in the noncantrip build camp myself. Id rather have impactful creatures that my opponents have to answer , than a 1/1 dork. Yes drawing cards is great...if we could take advantage of the manipulation. Look at that list again of "engines". Those cards are either manipulating the deck in some way (visions pod) or really efficient at it (bob, probe) Playing a deck of 1/1 and 2/2 that draw you more 1/1 and 2/2 doesn't seem that great of a proposal to me.
Now playing 2/1, and 3/2 to put pressure on your opponent, and then when they are dealing with your spells go "oops i win" sounds much better to me.
So I've been watching this deck for awhile, and just recently started play testing the deck. So far I love the deck. Though I'm never impressed by the cantrip dudes. Has anyone else tried building a more aggressive brand of nykthos green? Really use Garruks ultimate as a viable back up plan.
Here is my current build. Sideboard is still in limbo
Im still working on some kinks, and making a sideboard (2 more primal commands for sure). Thinking of cutting one Wave, Primetime, and Witness for...something. Havn't quite worked that out yet.
As for 4 drops, depending on what you want, harmonize is an option.
Sharkan Vol does seem like mini hoof, and may let you win. Worth a try
The only situation I can see desecration demon being miles better than alms beast is against stormbreath dragon.
Not to take a quote out of context, but that is why i am running alms beast over demon. Way more effective at stopping my opponent. There are very few flyers as of now, so the lack of flying isnt bad. The lifelink is irrelevent, since your going to win in the long run. As long as you play accordingly. (or break it with Erebos. But that is magical Christmas stuff) The other card that alms beast is missrable agaisnt is Archangel of thune. But still just play accordingly.
Kahamal, have you at least tried Alms beast in any testing? its not the 100% super alms star (sorry bad pun couldnt resist). But it does what it does very well. Which is gum up the ground to get you to the long game, while making combat unfavorable for your opponet. Sure they can gain some life, but your eating one of their guys every turn. A guy that you get to choose. Not your opponent.
As much as there are great cards to play, its always good to try under used cards, as terrible as they are on paper, to see how they work. And not just dissmiss everything as bad (hi there Blasphemous act)
Would be cool to check you AND joe's list out if you guys could post them. Im having so much trouble deciding if desecration demon is worth playing, i dont get to play test at all so im going into fnm totally blind. my meta is usually heavy aggro though
Well a BWR Midrange list won at my local win-a-box tournament Monday night... Unfortunately it wasn't MY BWR List. I was feeling pretty confident about my list going in but I definitely need to tweak the mana base and re-evaluate my removal package.
The list that ended up winning had some interesting options thrown in (not the least of which was 4x Alms Beast, 1x Erebos). His main deck removal package included 3x Anger of the Gods and 3x Magma Jets in addition to the full set of Dreadbores. Strangest part was, I don't think he had any hand destruction in the main.
I kind of disagree with some of his choices, but I couldn't deny that his results were phenomenal, and the idea of Alms Beast has really grown on me especially in conjunction with Erebos. I feel that the 4 cmc slot is really under-appreciated in this kind of deck, and Alms Beast makes a much more reliable blocker than Desecration Demon. The Lifelink isn't a huge deal either since the deck has a strong late-game, and the Beast makes a much better target for Whip since it can't simply be tapped like Desecration if your opponent has creatures.
I talked to him after the tourney and he said he'd post up his list at some point. Just wanted to put out some food for thought.
That may of been me joe
To me, i really think we want a turn 4 play almost every game. Either to stop there attackers, or to apply pressure on Control.
Alms beast vs Desecration demon is a valid debate.
Alms beast is a way more relaible blocker and attacker. In all my gamers last night he was essential in holding down the fort when it got to a board stall. In any of the games he was a DesDemon i would of lost. Plus the "combo" of Erebos is icing and way to build the deck around. The other bonus is WB is much easier to get on turn 4 than BB.
The only time i want Desecration Demon over alms beast is against a storm breath dragon and an empty board. Other than that give me the beast.
I decided against hand disruption just to deal with what they play. Also i was hedging on more aggro and mid range for night.
Last night there was a local winabox tournament. I ended up 4-1 and ended up in first due to tie breakers. The Turnout was alot of really strong decks. I only faced 1 "non" deck.
Unfortunately I didn't keep a log of how all the games went. So here is just the jist from memory
Round 1 G/W midrange 2-1
So this match up is Strongly in my favor.
Game 1: He is stuck with 1 white. Thus was unable to play Trostoni or Archangel. I proced to kill all of his plays and kill him with Alms beast
Game 2: My turn to get land screwed. Kept a 3 lander with all the scry. And proced to not draw the fifth land to play elespth to clear his board (i had a keyrune out at the time)
Game 3: Fairly back and forth. Until i play Erebos. I never turn him into a creature, to avoid the selesnya Charm, and proceed to win against a bunch of blanks. Trostoni and archangel turn pretty bland with him out.
Round 2 White Weenie! 2-0
So this is probaly the only Roflstomp of the night for me
Game 1 I Draw double anger, and stabilize at 10. He keeps overextending and hoping for a brave the elements. It never comes, and he quickly scoops after an overloaded morters
Game 2 He starts of really strong, but then proceds to not draw more threats. What he does draw us rootborn defenses so i cant wrath his board....twice. I draw Angel of serenity. Clear most of his blockers (exile yeah!) and beat face.
Alms beast both games just stalled the board for me. Proving h8s worth in aggressive match ups
Round 3 UB mill 2-1
So this was the "non" deck, but he had enough mill to be critical mass
Game 1: He mills to 6, and I keep a double reckoner hand to play beat down. He puts three of that enchanment that when you type a land it mills you 3. Luckily obzadat turn 5, and double reckoner get there.
Game 2: I have a slower start , but double slaughter games to rip Jace of the mill 10 and whatever else i find scary. Proced to get stuck on 3 lands and die.
Game 3: a fairly back and forth game. I have to board power. But he mills me for a bunch. Slaughter games showed up twice and hit Jace and Mind grind to slow his mill plan enough for me to kill him.
Round 4 UW 1-2
My only loss, but it is to arguble the hardest matchup
Game 1: He starts off fairly slow and i try to beat him down asap. Unfortently i liked to draw lands. I droped erebos early to shut down his lifegain. But cant get there and die to atherling. (i was a bit to aggresive in drawing cards though)
Game 2: I start strong. Sin collector, hit nothing (all he had was jace and atherling in hand) Drop a turn 5 obzadat, but I punt so hard the nfl contacted me, when i forgot to exile obzadat. He gets eaten by a sphere, but that lets me drop Assemble the legion. He drops jace the 2nd and pluses. I rip rakdos return. Drop him to 1 card in hand and kill jace and procced to win out.
Game 3: This game ends up going very long. I have obzadat and alms beast on table agaisnt his atherling. Im up in the life race. I do not attack for fear of Charm. Come to find out he sided them out agaisnt me. I get punished when he ulitamtes Mill 10 jace and he draws 20.
Round 5 Naya grr 2-1
The way the event was set up there was only 1 4-0 going into the last round. Guess who got paired up?
Game 1: I anger away all his mana dorks everytime. Thus he was stuck with 2 lands and a bunch of 4+ drops. Woot anger
Game 2: I Flood out hard in this game on lands. Really wish there was a good mana sink in this deck. No heliod go away. Best flood of the game? Draw for turn land. Read the bones. Scry 2, double land. Bottom you suckers! Draw 2, double land. Next turn draw land. Yeah lets go to game 3
Game 3: So this match ended up being an Edh game. He draws Trostoni, and i cant seem to draw a way to kill it. So his life goes up and up and up. At one point he was at 46 to my 20. I get to Elspteh minus twice to clear his board of wurms. But she gets eaten after a board whip by trostoni. Then i play The whip, and start gaining my own life From alms swings, and chandra not letting him block with voice. So we get pretty board stalled after a couple more turns to a boardstate of me with 3 reckoners and alms beast to Trostoni, voice, Reckoner and Scooze. With a purphoses in play. I reset the board with double anger to wipe his board and gain 9. Some how he doesnt kill my chandra and i Draw out to win with 6 cards left in my libray.
So Overall Im Really happy with this build. Alms beast is a house in most matchups. The only time i dont want him is when they play archangel and i dont have erebos out yet. He gets whiped pretty well and is fairly hard to deal with without a 2 for 1
The one card that is coming out is magma jet. I love the scry, but it is just so underwhelming compared to everything else. Proabably going to add another obzadat, Elespth, and a 3rd mortars. From what i could see, alot the regulars are jumping onto the Dega train. My win last night doesnt help with that
I dediced against blood baron because most players are going to assume im playing him in these colors. (doenst help ive been playing this deck for the past month at this shop) So i just made them play around a non existing card. Do i want him in there? not right now honestly. He is incredible strong, but does get outclassed now. I saw a bunch of R/G monstros decks last night, along with the regulars playing Dega. He just cant deal with R/G, and racing can get awkward. Ill take obzadaddy for now since he can swing the game more into my favor.
Last thing. I think Chanined to the rocks is a trap. I would at most play 2. yes it is great removal for 1 mana. But with it being an enchament makes it a liablity. Very good chance for them to get their guy back. And dont get me started on the peak eruption scenario. Though to be fair, my build kills there stuff dead more often, and has a higher chance to get blown out by insta destroy chained to the rocks.
So that is all! Any question ill gladly answer. Ive been a lurker for awhile and love this Archetype. Glad to see this thread actually be constructive and be building towards a better deck. (also sorry about the block of text. Hope i made it somewhat legible/nonranty)
Well to be fair, the Purhoros deck is very under tuned, compared to the U/W deck, which has a decent skeleton to go by from block. This deck is completely new to the sceane.
On that note, the deck list you posted, gauntlet is a bad card. cost 5 to do some more damage...usually after you used your spells. Mr. Puphoros would do arguble more damage over all, and with all those creatures + Chandra he could become a guy to beat with. Plus the sometimes pump and win.
4 mutavaults is fine cause you still have 20 other lands that can cast reckoner. Unless you get really unlucky, he should come down by turn 5 the latest, and even then he gums up the ground.
I've been messing around with a similar idea. I would drop the Purphosus count to 2, cause you never want multiples. Same with elspeth since she does cost 6.
Maybe play 3 chained to the rocks, since you can pretty much killl any creature with burn, but still have some for huge guys. (like hundred handed one, he is going to be a pain)
Personaly I would drop the dragon completely, make your curve as low as possible, on that note drop assemble to 2. Yes its ridiculous with the god, buut it does involve getting there safely.
Maybe even 1 pyromancer since he does kinda cox you into using cards inefficiently. Also squezzing in some mutavaults would be good. More creatures! Since you are kinda low.
In place i would add some amount of reckoner or Phoenix. Depends on your meta. Aggro midrange, recknroll. Control, Phoenix. Since im expecting more aggro at first id go 4 reckoners main. (plus get your god in there!)
Also adding in 2 Chandra, pyromaster since she can burn, "draw" cards, increase devotion, and her ultimate would probably just win in this deck.
Finally 1 Hammer of Purphosos since haste and free dudes from mana flood. (plus devotion!)
Also i was toying around with 1 of Heliod since he makes guys, to trigger Purhosous. 2 damage for 4 mana seems decent, even more so since its repeatable. But i havnt tested it out yet.
Here is what ive been tinkering with. Trying out Thunderous wrath cause it goes well with Experiment. Also snapcaster lets you double use spells, and has some good synergy with Devastation tide. (bounce a bunch of stuff, reuse the ramp spells)
This build is deffintly more all in than otheres, but does seem to work. Just no witchbane orb please
7 mana dorks: I only play 7 dorks, cause i really hate drawing Arbor elf cause he really doesn't fix my mana, but i do still want to play them for the ramp. I may go down, only testing will see.
4 Selesnya Charm: I don't know why we ever want less than 3 main deck. The charm just does anything we want, be a dude, reach for the kill, or removal for there big derps. Won many a games on the knight token, and killed many a jace to.
3 Thalia: I play her main cause she is such a beating on control and tempo early on. Rancor costing 2 is still a good return on what it does. Plus rancor on thalia is darn good turn 3. I tried Call of the Conclave, and it just doesn't cut it for me. Thalia just does so much more for me.
3 Souls: Souls is surpisngly great card for this. Evasive bodies than can be pumped, Not a great tempo play for your opponents to charm them, they can chump to help win the race, and can restock the board after a board wipe. Also an amazing line of play is turn one dork, turn 2 souls, then Sublime angel, swing for 5 with a token. All the win
1 Sever: In alot of games i was wising i had better removal against mass of blockers, and i wanted a better match up against control.
3 Gavony: What can i say, i love this spellland, and want it almost every time.
1 Vault: I started with 2, but in the end i wanted Gavony more often. Still kept one in cause it helps win races, and has a dumb interaction with trample.
Sideboard:
Mikaeus, the Lunarch: Im really surpised to not see this guy in more sideboards. He is still REALLY good. In the mirror it can come down to who gets a Gavony first, and Mikaeus is just that, but also a creature. Also he, and your team with him, can sneak under selesnya charm.
Nearhearth Pilgram This guy is the switch for thalia when im facing an aggro deck. The life thats possible to gain from him is astounding, even more so with the basic idea of the deck. (make a huge guy, murder face). Just be careful with how much soulbound you have out.
Vraska the Unseen: This and the Sever used to be Ray of reverlation, but i ended up never drawing it when i need it. I tend to side in ray agaisnt UWx control and Esper tokens, so im trying sever and vraska to help in the control match up. Im losing out on esper tokens, but i haven't seen it in my meta to much.
Whats out:
Paladin: I actully hate this guy, alot. If you drop him turn 2 (if your dork wasnt murdered) your opponent will probly kill him before he makes an impact. The amazing play he allows are great, i just don't like him with out a cheap anthem effect.
Geist: My mana is already greedy, so i dont want to make it more annyoing. Plus id rather thalia or Charm turn 2. I do wish i had more haste guys sometimes though.
Call of the conclave: As i said earlyer, i jsut wanted thalia more often than this. Its not terrible, but i think she just does more work for the mana.
O-ring: I oddly enough dont want this catch all awnser. Id rather kill faster. Stills feels odd with all the planeswalkers around, but ive been doing good with out it.
Thragtusk: Ok heres where i feel slightly insane, but hear me out. In this build i want them dead last turn. Thragtusk only prolongs you living, doesn't advance you to kill them quicker. Do I wish silverheart was him? Sometimes. Is Thragtusk bad: oh god no, i still hate seeing him across the table. Just this strategy it doesn't necessarily work (no pseudo-haste)
Ok im going to say something CrAZy cause it something ive been milling about in my head for a bit.
Hero of Bladehold: is it worth a spot in the deck? Or even to test. Works similar to grave titan (albeit a turn slower), but can come down earlier and we can play it turn 6 with mana leak back up. Im thinking about testing it and seeing how it goes.
Although it dies to dismemeber, and all black removal right now
It does suck to have a hand full of come into play tapped lands, that's why I've opted to cut the Scars lands and just go with more basics.
Yeah, im running only 2 scars lands,Seacrome Coast only becasue it gives that early access to and you want early. Im usually happy with one source of black till late game after turn 5 ish
I think we may need to deeply consider the fact that the mana may really hurt this deck taking off. It's rather rough and we are going to need to really think of ways to get around that, or otherwise this deck might not be relevant. I'm not flaming, I just think it's a issue that we should seek to address.
The mana isnt really to much of hassle so far for me. You just got to keep the right set of lands in your opening hand. So far if i hand with 3 lands, and they can produce at least one of each color, and either double black or double white, i keep it. 2 lands (which i suggest not doing ever...unless you have 2x think twice or something else silly) i want one of each color. Just got to pratice your mulligan skillz.
Liliana is actually a recent addition. Cabal therapy is usually your disruption of choice since it really is 2 discards in one. With some legacy experience you can usually name what is in there hand. When going in blind always name brainstorm.
The discard is useful primary for making a hole and exploiting it. Though ripping their hand apart by turn 2 is a good way to win. You really are just attritioning them out of the game with tiny guys and flashback spells. Why I like young pyro. He can just end the games with an army of tokens from all the discard we've casted.
I would invest in the deck in heartbeat. I actually was borrowing it for the event, but I play it at every local event I can.
I unfortnelt do not have modo. If I did I probably would of had a more refined list, and most likely would of done better. My loses in the event came from just not knowing my important cards in the match up. Though I still stand tall that this deck is a contender.
Couple thoughts on things that I've seen in the past few pages:
The reanimator hybrid I'm not a fan of. I see the original deck being weak to graveyard hate, and going down this path just makes you even more vulnerable. Sure you get some blowouts, but not enough for me to like it
Necromancer stockpile would of been good, if it coasted less. unfortunately its 2 to cast and 2 to activate so womp womp. to bad to, i really want to dis card gravecrawler and then bring it back FOR VALUE.
So some ideas that Ive been kicking around with people. Ravens crime/flame jab were thoughts on entomb tutor targets. Just to get more value out of entomb engines. Which definitely over performed last weekend. Lillian also did some work, though that may be old hat by now.
Any questions for me? (and for those who want to know i went 5-4 in the event.)
Now playing 2/1, and 3/2 to put pressure on your opponent, and then when they are dealing with your spells go "oops i win" sounds much better to me.
Here is my current build. Sideboard is still in limbo
Im still working on some kinks, and making a sideboard (2 more primal commands for sure). Thinking of cutting one Wave, Primetime, and Witness for...something. Havn't quite worked that out yet.
As for 4 drops, depending on what you want, harmonize is an option.
Sharkan Vol does seem like mini hoof, and may let you win. Worth a try
Not to take a quote out of context, but that is why i am running alms beast over demon. Way more effective at stopping my opponent. There are very few flyers as of now, so the lack of flying isnt bad. The lifelink is irrelevent, since your going to win in the long run. As long as you play accordingly. (or break it with Erebos. But that is magical Christmas stuff) The other card that alms beast is missrable agaisnt is Archangel of thune. But still just play accordingly.
Kahamal, have you at least tried Alms beast in any testing? its not the 100% super alms star (sorry bad pun couldnt resist). But it does what it does very well. Which is gum up the ground to get you to the long game, while making combat unfavorable for your opponet. Sure they can gain some life, but your eating one of their guys every turn. A guy that you get to choose. Not your opponent.
As much as there are great cards to play, its always good to try under used cards, as terrible as they are on paper, to see how they work. And not just dissmiss everything as bad (hi there Blasphemous act)
My list is a page back, with a mini report.
That may of been me joe
To me, i really think we want a turn 4 play almost every game. Either to stop there attackers, or to apply pressure on Control.
Alms beast vs Desecration demon is a valid debate.
Alms beast is a way more relaible blocker and attacker. In all my gamers last night he was essential in holding down the fort when it got to a board stall. In any of the games he was a DesDemon i would of lost. Plus the "combo" of Erebos is icing and way to build the deck around. The other bonus is WB is much easier to get on turn 4 than BB.
The only time i want Desecration Demon over alms beast is against a storm breath dragon and an empty board. Other than that give me the beast.
I decided against hand disruption just to deal with what they play. Also i was hedging on more aggro and mid range for night.
Here us the list I ran
1 Angel of serenity
2 Obzedat, Ghost council
4 Alms Beast
4 Boros Reckoner
Planewalker 2
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Removal 14
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Dreadbore
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Warleader's Helix
3 Magma jet
Other 8
3 Read the Bones
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Orzhov Keyrune
1 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Rakdos Return
6 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
3 temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Shock
2 Wear//Tear
2 Sin Collector
2 Underworld Connections
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Slaughter games
1 Whip of Erebos
1 assemble the legion
1 Rakdos's Return
Unfortunately I didn't keep a log of how all the games went. So here is just the jist from memory
Round 1 G/W midrange 2-1
So this match up is Strongly in my favor.
Game 1: He is stuck with 1 white. Thus was unable to play Trostoni or Archangel. I proced to kill all of his plays and kill him with Alms beast
Game 2: My turn to get land screwed. Kept a 3 lander with all the scry. And proced to not draw the fifth land to play elespth to clear his board (i had a keyrune out at the time)
Game 3: Fairly back and forth. Until i play Erebos. I never turn him into a creature, to avoid the selesnya Charm, and proceed to win against a bunch of blanks. Trostoni and archangel turn pretty bland with him out.
Round 2 White Weenie! 2-0
So this is probaly the only Roflstomp of the night for me
Game 1 I Draw double anger, and stabilize at 10. He keeps overextending and hoping for a brave the elements. It never comes, and he quickly scoops after an overloaded morters
Game 2 He starts of really strong, but then proceds to not draw more threats. What he does draw us rootborn defenses so i cant wrath his board....twice. I draw Angel of serenity. Clear most of his blockers (exile yeah!) and beat face.
Alms beast both games just stalled the board for me. Proving h8s worth in aggressive match ups
Round 3 UB mill 2-1
So this was the "non" deck, but he had enough mill to be critical mass
Game 1: He mills to 6, and I keep a double reckoner hand to play beat down. He puts three of that enchanment that when you type a land it mills you 3. Luckily obzadat turn 5, and double reckoner get there.
Game 2: I have a slower start , but double slaughter games to rip Jace of the mill 10 and whatever else i find scary. Proced to get stuck on 3 lands and die.
Game 3: a fairly back and forth game. I have to board power. But he mills me for a bunch. Slaughter games showed up twice and hit Jace and Mind grind to slow his mill plan enough for me to kill him.
Round 4 UW 1-2
My only loss, but it is to arguble the hardest matchup
Game 1: He starts off fairly slow and i try to beat him down asap. Unfortently i liked to draw lands. I droped erebos early to shut down his lifegain. But cant get there and die to atherling. (i was a bit to aggresive in drawing cards though)
Game 2: I start strong. Sin collector, hit nothing (all he had was jace and atherling in hand) Drop a turn 5 obzadat, but I punt so hard the nfl contacted me, when i forgot to exile obzadat. He gets eaten by a sphere, but that lets me drop Assemble the legion. He drops jace the 2nd and pluses. I rip rakdos return. Drop him to 1 card in hand and kill jace and procced to win out.
Game 3: This game ends up going very long. I have obzadat and alms beast on table agaisnt his atherling. Im up in the life race. I do not attack for fear of Charm. Come to find out he sided them out agaisnt me. I get punished when he ulitamtes Mill 10 jace and he draws 20.
Round 5 Naya grr 2-1
The way the event was set up there was only 1 4-0 going into the last round. Guess who got paired up?
Game 1: I anger away all his mana dorks everytime. Thus he was stuck with 2 lands and a bunch of 4+ drops. Woot anger
Game 2: I Flood out hard in this game on lands. Really wish there was a good mana sink in this deck. No heliod go away. Best flood of the game? Draw for turn land. Read the bones. Scry 2, double land. Bottom you suckers! Draw 2, double land. Next turn draw land. Yeah lets go to game 3
Game 3: So this match ended up being an Edh game. He draws Trostoni, and i cant seem to draw a way to kill it. So his life goes up and up and up. At one point he was at 46 to my 20. I get to Elspteh minus twice to clear his board of wurms. But she gets eaten after a board whip by trostoni. Then i play The whip, and start gaining my own life From alms swings, and chandra not letting him block with voice. So we get pretty board stalled after a couple more turns to a boardstate of me with 3 reckoners and alms beast to Trostoni, voice, Reckoner and Scooze. With a purphoses in play. I reset the board with double anger to wipe his board and gain 9. Some how he doesnt kill my chandra and i Draw out to win with 6 cards left in my libray.
So Overall Im Really happy with this build. Alms beast is a house in most matchups. The only time i dont want him is when they play archangel and i dont have erebos out yet. He gets whiped pretty well and is fairly hard to deal with without a 2 for 1
The one card that is coming out is magma jet. I love the scry, but it is just so underwhelming compared to everything else. Proabably going to add another obzadat, Elespth, and a 3rd mortars. From what i could see, alot the regulars are jumping onto the Dega train. My win last night doesnt help with that
I dediced against blood baron because most players are going to assume im playing him in these colors. (doenst help ive been playing this deck for the past month at this shop) So i just made them play around a non existing card. Do i want him in there? not right now honestly. He is incredible strong, but does get outclassed now. I saw a bunch of R/G monstros decks last night, along with the regulars playing Dega. He just cant deal with R/G, and racing can get awkward. Ill take obzadaddy for now since he can swing the game more into my favor.
Last thing. I think Chanined to the rocks is a trap. I would at most play 2. yes it is great removal for 1 mana. But with it being an enchament makes it a liablity. Very good chance for them to get their guy back. And dont get me started on the peak eruption scenario. Though to be fair, my build kills there stuff dead more often, and has a higher chance to get blown out by insta destroy chained to the rocks.
So that is all! Any question ill gladly answer. Ive been a lurker for awhile and love this Archetype. Glad to see this thread actually be constructive and be building towards a better deck. (also sorry about the block of text. Hope i made it somewhat legible/nonranty)
On that note, the deck list you posted, gauntlet is a bad card. cost 5 to do some more damage...usually after you used your spells. Mr. Puphoros would do arguble more damage over all, and with all those creatures + Chandra he could become a guy to beat with. Plus the sometimes pump and win.
4 mutavaults is fine cause you still have 20 other lands that can cast reckoner. Unless you get really unlucky, he should come down by turn 5 the latest, and even then he gums up the ground.
Maybe play 3 chained to the rocks, since you can pretty much killl any creature with burn, but still have some for huge guys. (like hundred handed one, he is going to be a pain)
Personaly I would drop the dragon completely, make your curve as low as possible, on that note drop assemble to 2. Yes its ridiculous with the god, buut it does involve getting there safely.
Maybe even 1 pyromancer since he does kinda cox you into using cards inefficiently. Also squezzing in some mutavaults would be good. More creatures! Since you are kinda low.
In place i would add some amount of reckoner or Phoenix. Depends on your meta. Aggro midrange, recknroll. Control, Phoenix. Since im expecting more aggro at first id go 4 reckoners main. (plus get your god in there!)
Also adding in 2 Chandra, pyromaster since she can burn, "draw" cards, increase devotion, and her ultimate would probably just win in this deck.
Finally 1 Hammer of Purphosos since haste and free dudes from mana flood. (plus devotion!)
Also i was toying around with 1 of Heliod since he makes guys, to trigger Purhosous. 2 damage for 4 mana seems decent, even more so since its repeatable. But i havnt tested it out yet.
so for the TL;DR:
-3 plains
-1 mountain
-1 young pyromancer
-1 Purphsous
-1 Elspeth suns champion
-1 Chanied to the rocks
-2 Strombreath Dragon
-1 Assemble the Legion
+4 Mutavaults
+4 Boros Reckoner
+2 Chandra, Pyromaster
+1 Hammer of Purphsous
2 Boundless Realms
4 Thunderous Wrath
1 Devil's Play
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Devastation Tide
4 Farseek
3 Increasing Vengeance
2 Ranger's Path
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Steam Vents
5 Mountain
6 Island
9 Forest
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Bonfire of the Damned
Here is what ive been tinkering with. Trying out Thunderous wrath cause it goes well with Experiment. Also snapcaster lets you double use spells, and has some good synergy with Devastation tide. (bounce a bunch of stuff, reuse the ramp spells)
This build is deffintly more all in than otheres, but does seem to work. Just no witchbane orb please
Heres my 75 Thats being doing decent
3 Arbor Elf
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Rancor
5 Forest
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple Garden
3 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Garruk Relentless
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Sublime Archangel
3 Lingering Souls
1 Sever the Bloodline
4 Wolfir Silverheart
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Rest in Peace
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
3 Nearheath Pilgrim
2 Triumph of Ferocity
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Sever the Bloodline
Whats in:
7 mana dorks: I only play 7 dorks, cause i really hate drawing Arbor elf cause he really doesn't fix my mana, but i do still want to play them for the ramp. I may go down, only testing will see.
4 Selesnya Charm: I don't know why we ever want less than 3 main deck. The charm just does anything we want, be a dude, reach for the kill, or removal for there big derps. Won many a games on the knight token, and killed many a jace to.
3 Thalia: I play her main cause she is such a beating on control and tempo early on. Rancor costing 2 is still a good return on what it does. Plus rancor on thalia is darn good turn 3. I tried Call of the Conclave, and it just doesn't cut it for me. Thalia just does so much more for me.
3 Souls: Souls is surpisngly great card for this. Evasive bodies than can be pumped, Not a great tempo play for your opponents to charm them, they can chump to help win the race, and can restock the board after a board wipe. Also an amazing line of play is turn one dork, turn 2 souls, then Sublime angel, swing for 5 with a token. All the win
1 Sever: In alot of games i was wising i had better removal against mass of blockers, and i wanted a better match up against control.
3 Gavony: What can i say, i love this spellland, and want it almost every time.
1 Vault: I started with 2, but in the end i wanted Gavony more often. Still kept one in cause it helps win races, and has a dumb interaction with trample.
Sideboard:
Mikaeus, the Lunarch: Im really surpised to not see this guy in more sideboards. He is still REALLY good. In the mirror it can come down to who gets a Gavony first, and Mikaeus is just that, but also a creature. Also he, and your team with him, can sneak under selesnya charm.
Nearhearth Pilgram This guy is the switch for thalia when im facing an aggro deck. The life thats possible to gain from him is astounding, even more so with the basic idea of the deck. (make a huge guy, murder face). Just be careful with how much soulbound you have out.
Vraska the Unseen: This and the Sever used to be Ray of reverlation, but i ended up never drawing it when i need it. I tend to side in ray agaisnt UWx control and Esper tokens, so im trying sever and vraska to help in the control match up. Im losing out on esper tokens, but i haven't seen it in my meta to much.
Whats out:
Paladin: I actully hate this guy, alot. If you drop him turn 2 (if your dork wasnt murdered) your opponent will probly kill him before he makes an impact. The amazing play he allows are great, i just don't like him with out a cheap anthem effect.
Geist: My mana is already greedy, so i dont want to make it more annyoing. Plus id rather thalia or Charm turn 2. I do wish i had more haste guys sometimes though.
Call of the conclave: As i said earlyer, i jsut wanted thalia more often than this. Its not terrible, but i think she just does more work for the mana.
O-ring: I oddly enough dont want this catch all awnser. Id rather kill faster. Stills feels odd with all the planeswalkers around, but ive been doing good with out it.
Thragtusk: Ok heres where i feel slightly insane, but hear me out. In this build i want them dead last turn. Thragtusk only prolongs you living, doesn't advance you to kill them quicker. Do I wish silverheart was him? Sometimes. Is Thragtusk bad: oh god no, i still hate seeing him across the table. Just this strategy it doesn't necessarily work (no pseudo-haste)
Thats all, and i hope it helps!
Hero of Bladehold: is it worth a spot in the deck? Or even to test. Works similar to grave titan (albeit a turn slower), but can come down earlier and we can play it turn 6 with mana leak back up. Im thinking about testing it and seeing how it goes.
Although it dies to dismemeber, and all black removal right now
Anyone elses thoughts?
Yeah, im running only 2 scars lands,Seacrome Coast only becasue it gives that early access to
The mana isnt really to much of hassle so far for me. You just got to keep the right set of lands in your opening hand. So far if i hand with 3 lands, and they can produce at least one of each color, and either double black or double white, i keep it. 2 lands (which i suggest not doing ever...unless you have 2x think twice or something else silly) i want one of each color. Just got to pratice your mulligan skillz.