So, a rough starting outline:
Layer 1: putting an enchantment into play allows us to perform the Thaumabroom combo, taking X Thaumabrooms to 2^X Thuamabrooms.
Layer 2: Tapping a land for a particular color of mana (say red) will get us a lot of red mana thanks to Nyxbloom Ancients. We can use this to cast many Aspect of Manticore many times. We can return Aspect of Manticore to our hand with Bala Ged Recovery.
Layer 3: Tapping an artifact can produce a lot of mana, say blue mana. This will allow us to cast Rewind many times, untapping our red mana land.
We can have 40+ artifacts to get 2^^^^40+ damage - but yeah, not a whole lot as of yet.
It would have been nice to use say Canopy Tactician for green mana, and then use Claim the Firstborn for red to give Canopy Tactician haste, giving us another layer. But, then we have the question of how we get mana for the Thaumaturges. Are there any ways to get cheap mana that will pay for all the Thaumaturge triggers, other than tapping a creature?
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Mar 26, 2021 Posted in: Magic General
Mar 26, 2021Hmmm... so with the Thaumabroom strategy, we go form X to 2^X each time we respond with a constellation trigger. Here's the problem: Having to respond with putting an enchantment into play, means we can't have more layers that are based on the stack. We can still have layers based on resources - except, Gilded Goose cuts out life and all colors or mana! So, we may have painted ourselves into a corner here.Posted in: Magic General
One possibility is to switch out Gilded Goose for another sacrifice outlet, to get our resources back. But, it is quite possible that some other combo is the way to go, given that we only get to 2^X with this one. (We could still use this to get started, or to copy creatures - although for the latter we need to be able to put an enchantment into play cheaply, but not so cheap as to go infinite.)
Mar 26, 2021Wait, no way to gain flash at all? That's really rough! I don't know how we would make a stage then, other than a pair of instants maybe.Posted in: Magic General
Mar 25, 2021Hmm, in our current system Confront the Past can be recast with Recoup, so at the hyperstage level. I don't see an obvious way to use Planeswalkers at that level.Posted in: Magic General
Getting the effects of Doubling Season and Dual Nature for Standard would be very nice! Do we have a thread for the current Standard yet? We can start working on that, while still thinking about Vintage.
Mar 24, 2021So, with the realization that Gravity Punch is sufficient for updating to Busy Beaver, I was wondering if perhaps we don't need to get a lot of separate instances of Retract, and maybe we can drop Dack Fayden? If we can update our Bloodbond Marches to X at some point, then maybe we wouldn't need a lot of separate Retracts. But we would need at least two in any case, which I don't see how to get without Dack Fayden... so I guess that doesn't work out.Posted in: Magic General
Mar 23, 2021Hmm... there are a lot of things that would help, any one thing is probably unlikely but you never know I guess.Posted in: Magic General
-Something that would add another color stage would be nice, presumably either green or red. I guess this would be hard, since whatever stage is last has to be protected from the previous two stages. Maybe some untargeted effect like Temur Sabertooth, but from a noncreature; then we could add a green creature with shroud. Or, we could have the new stage go earlier, and have blue creatures with shroud at the end. But, that would require freeing ourselves from Drake Familiar and Wormfang Behemoth, which seems difficult.
-Something that would make creature tokens for the primary stage work, while still allowing for at least two additional stages. The first obstacle we ran into was that we needed a blue creature for the primary stage, which stopped us from getting a blue stage later. A black creature for the primary stage would be ideal, allowing the other four to still be used. There may be other problems with a primary creature stage though, we haven't really worked on it yet. If it works though, we can probably gain a lot of layers at the end.
-On a less ambitious note, something that would get more layers. A really nice card that allows us to discard to gain life would be in order, since the ones we have all have problems: Faith of the Devoted can't be allowed to have to many copies, so we need a bunch of Dralnu's Crusade copies, and we can't get enchantment layers at the end. Nihilistic Glee gives us relatively cheap card draw, which prevents us from using card draw (for us) in the final layers to some extent, and it requires black. Urborg Syphon-Mage also requires black, and our setup requires a single copy of Alhammarret's Archive, which prevents us from having Mirror Gallery. Also it needs to be tapped; so either we add Thousand-Year Elixir, which untaps our creatures, or we get only one combat, which kills some final layers. So a better discard card would be nice.
I'm sure there are other cards that can add more layers. We can get one layer now just by saving a card slot; I'm not seeing any obvious cuts, but the colorless mana source does seem like something that could be fulfilled by a card that is used for something else. Or, we could find a card that adds more than one layer, like Bearer of Overwhelming Truths if that wasn't the back face of a card, or Tamiyo's Journal if we could have Mirror Gallery. Or, just finding a longer sequence; if we cut the intial land part of the layer sequence, we can regain 5 card slots while losing 3 layers, so if we can gain 3 or more layers with 4 or fewer card slots, we can add that plus World at War for 10+ layers.
Feel free to post any interesting cards that might have potential! Sometimes it just takes some attention to see how a card can be useful.
Mar 21, 2021Oh, it does. @_@ Then yeah, we want to have Moraug *without* World at War if that is possible for a given layer count.Posted in: Magic General
Mar 21, 2021So, right now we're at 61 cards, so we have to drop a card. Previously I had dropped Blue Sun's Zenith, but I guess it is better to drop Moraug, Fury of Akoum, so that the opponent's starting library is worth more. So we get:Posted in: Magic General
Mar 20, 2021Shepherd of the Flock can be bounced to hand with Distorting Wake, to imprint on Chrome Mox. Casting it for Bloodbond March triggers should work just fine I think?Posted in: Magic General
Sorceries like Time Wipe can be cast using Spellweaver Helix, without needing to spend white mana.
I looked at the various ways to spend 1 or 2 life, nothing really stood out.
Mar 19, 2021It might be okay losing a card or two, since getting Mirror Gallery back would bump Tamiyo's Journal from 1 layer to 3 layers. But, don't know how to make it work at the moment.Posted in: Magic General
Mar 19, 2021I'm wondering if there is another way we can use Urborg Syphon-Mage, so that we don't need Alhammarret's Archive, and can use Mirror Gallery again perhaps. If we put in a black mana supplier, Urborg will gain us 2 life if we discard a card. So if we can somehow have a sorcery cast cost us 2 life, we'll be in business.Posted in: Magic General
I haven't found a way to do that though - Crippling Fatigue costs us 3 life, which perhaps we could massage into 2 life, but we can't allow it's effect anyway.
Mar 18, 2021Hmmm, maybe. Maybe keep Restore, and use one transition to cast Worldfire, and the next to cast Restore? I'm not totally sure it works, we have to think about it. But if it does, it could get the full layer sequence in.Posted in: Magic General
Edit: Nah, I don't think that's good... we basically get an extra casting of Gravitic Punch to go with the Restore, so we can cast that lower down the stage, while keeping the Worldfire casts higher up, so that the lower Gravitic Punch keeps replenishing the stage.
Mar 18, 2021Oh shoot, I just realized there's another reason why we want Doubling Season; it multiplies the number of copies of Black Lotus that we get from our Dual Nature triggers. So I guess we go back to Doubling Season, in which case we don't need Fuel for the Cause, and maybe Mana Echoes is still our best colorless mana option then?Posted in: Magic General
Mar 17, 2021Oh, hahaha. In a comedy of errors, I also made the mistake of putting 6 blue creatures in the deck. Those dueling errors seem to cancel each other out, so we have precisely 5 blue creatures that we can afford to put in to play more than a small number of times. I guess the current deck is okay then?Posted in: Magic General
The combo with the Metalworker seems to work out, and it looks like we can get started as well, nice.
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