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  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Yes, by all means keep looking for that stage! I've been looking a little bit, but also pretty unsuccessfully.

    My thoughts were trying to find some alternate version of our "putting Skull Prophet (or some other mana creature) on and off the battlefield" strategy. A big hurdle is that we need to replicate our instants (or sorceries if we can cast them at instant speed), and I haven't been able to find a good replicator other than Sea Gate Stormcaller. The problem there is, how can we put increasing amounts of SGSes on the battlefield, without messing with the Skull Prophet balance? It seems tricky.


    Edit: Putting blue mana in the beginning allows us to play Brazen Borrower cheaply, so that we can counter it for more layers. This hopefully gets us to 20 layers.

    0 - Sacrificing a creature allows us to double our Thaumabrooms
    1 - Resolving a contellation trigger allows us to turn many Thaumaturges into sacrifice creatures
    2 - Activating Thassa, Deep-Dwelling allows us to put an enchantment into play
    3 - Tapping an Island generates a lot of blue mana
    4 - Spending a red mana gives many Murasa Rootgrazers haste
    5 - Casting a creature will generate a lot of red mana, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling
    6 - Copying an instant will return a creature many times, thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord
    7 - Casting an instant will generate many copies thanks to Sea Gate Stormcaller
    8-9 - Countering the above instant will allow us to duplicate the above layers
    10 - Casting Once and Future can bring back the counter spell many times
    11 - Tapping a Ketria Crystal generates a lot of green mana
    12 - Targeting Ketria Crystal will create many copies
    13 - Tapping a white payland will generate a lot of white mana
    14 - A trigger of Essence Symbiote will gain us a lot of life, thanks to Honor Troll
    15 - Mutating a Sea-Drinker Octopus will trigger many Essence Symbiotes
    16 - Casting Heartless Act will destroy many mutated creatures
    17 - A snow land generates a lot of black mana
    18 - Attacking with Jorn, God of Winter untaps a lot of snow lands
    19 - We can attack with many Jorns each combat phase
    20 - We can get a lot of combat phases thanks to Moraug, Fury of Akoum
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Oh nice! That takes us to 17 layers.

    We could perhaps get 18, if we could go back to the mutating creature version, and could cast a spell that allowed us mutate many times. An instant destroying a creature seems like a possibility, since Skyway Sniper only targets flying creatures. However, we currently need to cast a creature spell in Layer 4, and then return it to our hand with Extus, Oriq Overlord, and there don't seem to be any red or green flying flash creatures. So it looks like we need another destruction effect for that, and I don't know how to separate Wildborn Preserver (the only green flash creature) from Pouncing Shoreshark or Sea-Dasher Octopus.


    Edit: Oh, I guess countering the flash creature will work. Voracious Greatshark should do. So, we get:

    1 - Activating Skyway Sniper can activate the Thaumaturge combo
    2 - Tapping a Forest generates a lot of green mana
    3 - Spending a red mana gives many Murasa Rootgrazers haste
    4 - Casting a creature will generate a lot of red mana, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling
    5 - Copying an instant will return a creature many times, thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord
    6 - Casting an instant will generate many copies thanks to Sea Gate Stormcaller
    7 - Casting Once and Future will bring back the above instant many times
    8 - Countering Once and Future will allow us to duplicate the above layer
    9 - Tapping a Ketria Crystal generates a lot of blue mana
    10 - Targeting Ketria Crystal will create many copies
    11 - Tapping a white payland will generate a lot of black mana
    12 - A trigger of Essence Symbiote will gain us a lot of life, thanks to Honor Troll
    13 - Mutating a Sea-Drinker Octopus will trigger many Essence Symbiotes
    14 - Casting Heartless Act will destroy many mutated creatures
    15 - A snow land generates a lot of white mana
    16 - Attacking with Jorn, God of Winter untaps a lot of snow lands
    17 - We can attack with many Jorns each combat phase
    18 - We can get a lot of combat phases thanks to Moraug, Fury of Akoum


    Edit: Oh, I think I miscounted the layers in the thaumabroom combo. Each time we sacrifice something, we can double the amount of Thaumabrooms, so that is layer 0; each time we copy an enchantment, we can turn a lot of Thaumaturges into sacrifice creatures, so this is layer 1; and each time we respond to a sacrifice with a constellation trigger, we can turn a lot of Thaumabrooms into enchantments so that they can create more enchantments, so that is layer 2. So we get one more layer than I thought, up to 19!


    Edit: So, I guess so far we have:



    Thinking about what to do with the remaining cards, of course we need a way to draw the rest of the cards, but that should be pretty straightforward. In terms of adding more power, the first thing that comes to mind is a limited way to add black mana. Shrine of Boundless Harvest looks like a possibility, except we can't put it into play by turn 2, which is when we need it. Similarly for lands that come into play tapped, besides the Sulfurous Mire on turn 1. Treasure tokens won't work, since even if we switch from Ketria Crystal to a land, it seems like we still need Shepherd of the Flock to copy it, and so we'll always be able to make copies of our treasure tokens. So I'm not sure what's best to add to the deck.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    I figured out how to get one more layer:

    1 - Activating Skyway Sniper can activate the Thaumaturge combo
    2 - Tapping a Forest generates a lot of green mana
    3 - Spending a red mana gives many Murasa Rootgrazers haste
    4 - Casting a creature will generate a lot of red mana, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling
    5 - Copying an instant will return a creature many times, thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord
    6 - Casting an instant will generate many copies thanks to Sea Gate Stormcaller
    7 - Casting Once and Future will bring back the above instant many times
    8 - Countering Once and Future will allow us to duplicate the above layer
    9 - Tapping Ketria Crystal generates a lot of blue mana
    10 - Targeting Ketria Crystal will create many copies
    11 - Tapping a black payland will generate a lot of black mana
    12 - A copy of Heliod's Intervention will gain us a lot of life
    13 - A snow land generates a lot of white mana
    14 - Attacking with Jorn, God of Winter untaps a lot of snow lands
    15 - We can attack with many Jorns each combat phase
    16 - We can get a lot of combat phases thanks to Moraug, Fury of Akoum

    Unfortunately, we lose a layer in the life gaining section, since I couldn't find a white instant as good as Inscription of Abundance. Heliod's Intervention isn't as good because the X doesn't increase between copies. Rally for the Throne seems close, but the Adamant keyword isn't satisfied by the copies.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Hmm, I'm a little fuzzy with how replacement effects for a bunch of card draws work. My thinking was, we start with a card draw, which is a single ability; with a bunch of Teferi's Ageless Insights, we replace that draw with a bunch of card draws, but it's still a single ability. Then Unpredictable Cyclone will replace each card draw one at a time, but this is all still in the resolution of a single ability, so we never get priority to do anything in between the draw events. So the above combo can fetch and cast the cards that are currently in the library, but we can't refill the library to fetch and cast cards again. Is this correct?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Ooh, some nice cards!

    Rootha, Mercurial Artist allows cheap copying, so that seems difficult to make work.

    Accomplished Alchemist perhaps isn't worth trying too hard to make work, with the presence of Nyxbloom Ancient.

    Double Major or Echoing Equation could be possible pieces of an alternate base combo to Thaumabroom.


    I was able to get back up to 13 layers:

    0 - Tapping a Dalakos gets a lot of colorless mana thanks to Forsaken Monuments
    1 - Spending an R will give a lot of Dalakoses haste
    2 - Casting a creature will genereate a lot of R, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling
    3 - Copying an instant will return a creature many times, thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord
    4 - Casting an instant will generate many copies thanks to Sea Gate Stormcaller
    5 - Casting Bala Ged Recovery will return the above instant many times
    6 - Tapping a Forest generates a lot of green mana
    7 - Targeting a Forest will create many copies
    8 - A white payland generates a lot of white mana
    9 - Morphing a blue or black creature will gain us a lot of life thanks to Essence Symbiote
    10 - a snow land generates a lot of mana
    11 - Attacking with Jorn, God of Winter untaps a lot of snow lands
    12 - We can attack with many Jorns each combat phase
    13 - we can get a lot of combat phases thanks to Moraug


    Also, it doesn't seem to be useful at the moment, but lol at Exponential Growth!


    Edit: Since we aren't using all colors, we can use Canopy Tactician for one more layer.

    1 - Tapping a Canopy Tactician will generate a lot of green mana thanks to Nyxbloom Ancients
    2 - Spending an R will give a lot of Canopy Tacticians haste
    3 - Casting a creature will genereate a lot of red mana, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling
    4 - Copying an instant will return a creature many times, thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord
    5 - Casting an instant will generate many copies thanks to Sea Gate Stormcaller
    6 - Casting Absorb Identity will return Ashiok's Erasure many times
    7 - Tapping an Island generates a lot of blue mana
    8 - Targeting a Island will create many copies
    9 - A white payland generates a lot of white mana
    10 - Morphing a black creature will gain us a lot of life thanks to Essence Symbiote
    11 - a snow land generates a lot of mana
    12 - Attacking with Jorn, God of Winter untaps a lot of snow lands
    13 - We can attack with many Jorns each combat phase
    14 - we can get a lot of combat phases thanks to Moraug, Fury of Akoum


    Edit: Tergrid's Lantern seems like a good way to start off the combo, destroying an enchantment that can be brought back by Archon of Falling Stars (which can also be destroyed by Tergrid's Lantern). Next, we can bring back a creature a lot of times thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord. So we can improve with:

    1 - Activating Tergrid's Lantern starts the thaumabroom combo
    2 - Tapping a Swamp generates a lot of black mana
    3 - Spending a red mana gives Murasa Rootgrazers haste
    4 - Casting a creature will generate a lot of red mana, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling
    5 - Copying an instant will return a creature many times, thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord
    6 - Casting an instant will generate many copies thanks to Sea Gate Stormcaller
    7 - Casting Once and Future will return the above instant many times
    8 - Tapping a green mana land generates a lot of green mana
    9 - Targeting a green mana land will create many copies
    10 - A white payland generates a lot of white mana
    11 - Morphing a blue creature will gain us a lot of life thanks to Essence Symbiote
    12 - A snow land generates a lot of mana
    13 - Attacking with Jorn, God of Winter untaps a lot of snow lands
    14 - We can attack with many Jorns each combat phase
    15 - We can get a lot of combat phases thanks to Moraug, Fury of Akoum


    Edit: Hmmm, I think we can have the instant card be an adventure instant, and then counter the adventure instant so that it can fetch itself. So we get two layers from the initial cast of the adventure instant, then we counter it (say with the adventure instant Mesmeric Glare, which costs blue mana), then each of the Extus triggers can fetch the first adventure instant, which we can then cast for another two layers. So we can get:

    1 - Activating Tergrid's Lantern starts the thaumabroom combo
    2 - Tapping a Swamp generates a lot of black mana
    3 - Spending a red mana gives Murasa Rootgrazers haste
    4 - Casting a creature will generate a lot of red mana, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling
    5 - Copying an instant will return a creature many times, thanks to Extus, Oriq Overlord
    6 - Casting an instant will generate many copies thanks to Sea Gate Stormcaller
    7-8 - Repeat the above layers by countering the adventure instant
    9 - Tapping a blue mana land generates a lot of blue mana
    10 - Targeting a blue mana land will create many copies
    11 - A white payland generates a lot of white mana
    12 - A copy of Inscription of Abundance will gain us a lot of life
    13 - Casting Instcription of Abundance generates many copies
    14 - A snow land generates a lot of mana
    15 - Attacking with Jorn, God of Winter untaps a lot of snow lands
    16 - We can attack with many Jorns each combat phase
    17 - We can get a lot of combat phases thanks to Moraug, Fury of Akoum


    Edit: Oh, we need to counter an adventure instant every time, not just the one on the bottom, if it doesn't have flash for the creature, or else we can't cast it from exile with instant speed. But, the only adventure instant/creature that has flash is also blue, so that doesn't save on the blue mana. So, we only get at most one instant per blue mana, giving us two layers out of it, so we lose two. Down to 15.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Yeah, we can use Dalakos, Crafter of Wonders to trigger a bunch of copies of Forsaken Monument for colorless mana. Unfortunately, we can't use the mana from Dalakos to pay for the Thauamabroom copies, and the Forsaken Monument mana doesn't get multiplied by Nyxbroom Ancients, so we lose at least a layer of mana. If we want to use artifacts as a mana layer, then we probably can't have Animating Faerie, since that will provide a mana producing artifact creature to copy, so we wind up losing two layers of colorless mana there. We can still provide cheap haste, and limit the Thaumaturge combo by putting in enchantments rather than mana - still investigating that.

    Grinning Ingus would be nice, but yeah, the sorcery speed is a problem. It would be nice to have a colorless source that doesn't require tapping, but I didn't find one.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Hmm, I don't see how to manage with colorless either.

    Hopefully we can figure out a way to make this work, otherwise the best thing I can see is the three layer version with one TT. That could potentially help, but you would always be able to set it up like

    cheapest spell -> TT -> most powerful spell

    so you don't actually have to pay for the most powerful spell, just the red for TT. So we would use red to use our most powerful spell, putting it at roughly the top end. That means we can't use our current version with Kenrith, the Returned King for red. I don't yet see how to switch things around without using at least two layers in the switch. Maybe new artifacts will help this out.


    Edit: Just as a random thought, what if we had one of the spells give us red mana? I've tried some configurations though, it doesn't seem to work out. We would need to get a fixed amount of red mana with each cast, but it would need to be more than one - I can't make it work.


    Edit: While we are thinking about the stage, I'm looking at the layer deck a little bit. Unfortunately, in the current deck we can destroy the mutated Dirge Bat with General Kudro of Drannith, and then bring it back with Blood Beckoning, avoiding the use of blue. We can fix it by switching to a blue mutator, but that loses a layer.

    We don't have to use Blood Beckoning, and can just cast any black spell; but that loses a layer in that section. So we're looking at losing a layer somewhere in any case. Still, I feel like we should be able to get more than the normal two layers from the payland to the snow land, considering we're using up both life and a color of mana.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Hmm, it seems like it doesn't quite work. We can cast Into the Roll kicked and Tibalt's Trickery for two blue and a red, then we can counter both original spells for two casts of Song-Mad Treachery for two blue, and if we have Birgi, God of Storytelling, we should profit red. Also the card draw from Into the Roll allows us to bring it back to our hand afterwards, so it looks like it goes infinite.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Yeah, my nine layer idea doesn't quite work; it still works for one TT, but obviously a stage would be much better.

    Ooh, Into the Roil looks nice. I think it can work as a stage even with the targeting problem. Basically each time we put a bunch of triggers on the stack, we resolve the top one to turn it into a spell. I don't see how to use the intermediate triggers for TT effectively, so those won't be true layers; we use however many TT copies we need to counter the originals, then we just resolve down to the ItR layer, resolve the top one to draw TT, and cast TT again. So the ItR layers actually function as layers, which is all we need.

    So, I think we just need X to provide one blue or red mana per cast?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Hmmm, The Great Henge is interesting; but unfortunately, the life gain means that it moots the payland option, which is currently better. So I don't see how to use it profitably at the moment.


    Edit: Okay, I think I can get back up to 13 layers. If we can make the Thaumaturge combo self-sufficient, say by adding General Kudro of Drannith to alternately destroy Archon of Falling Stars and Nyxbloom Ancient, then we can limit the combo by mana alone. Tapping a Canopy Tactician gets us 3*3^X green mana if we have X Nyxbloom Ancients, which can pay for 3^X Thaumabroom triggers, so that is layer 1. We can then use Kenrith, the Returned King to give a lot of Canopy Tacticians haste for the use of a red. So our layer sequence goes like:

    Layer 1: Each Canopy Tactician taps for 3*3^X mana with X Nyxbloom Ancients

    Layer 2: Spending an R gives haste to many Canopy Tacticians

    Layer 3: Casting a green or red creature with flash generates a bunch of red mana, thanks to Birgi, God of Storytelling

    Layer 4: Casting Blood Beckoning can return the green or red creature many times

    Layer 5: Tapping a Swamp generates a lot of black mana

    Layer 6: Targeting a Swamp with Usher to Safety creates a lot of Swamps

    Layer 7: Tapping Emeria, Shattered Skyclave can generate a lot of white mana

    Layer 8: Mutating with Dirge Bat will gain us a lot of life, thanks to Essence Symbiote

    Layer 9: Casting Absorb Identity can return a mutated creature to our hand many times

    Layer 10: Tapping Volatile Fjord can generate a lot of blue mana

    Layer 11: A Jorn, God of Winter trigger can untap a lot of copies of Volatile Fjord

    Layer 12: We can attack with many copies of Jorn, God of Winter every combat phase

    Layer 13: Moraug can create many combat phases, both after the precombat and postcombat main phases


    Possible avenues of improvement: We haven't used artifacts (partially for the reasons stated previously), and we basically waste a color in the beginning with the Canopy Tactician being spent for the Thaumaturge combo. If we can free up that color, we could potentially use artifacts and the extra color for another two layers? So even if we have to give up a layer to get that, we would profit. We can perhaps avoid using up a color that early, by using Dalakos, Crafter of Wonders, abetted by Forsaken Monument. If we just use this to replace Canopy Tactian however, we will lose at least a layer, since the mana generated by Forsaken Monument isn't multiplied by Nyxbloom Ancient. If we can't turn Forsaken Monument into a creature to make copies (likely if we are going to use artifacts for layers), then we lose two layers with the straight up switch. So, I don't see how to make an improvement at the moment, even if we had artifacts that generated fewer colors of mana.


    Edit: Oh, I think we can do a lot of trickery with Tibalt's Trickery!

    Let's say we have four copies of Tibalt's Trickery. We can set up a nine layer stack of alternating spells, with Tibalt's Trickery in the even layers, and some other spell (can be pretty much anything, but instants and sorceries get copies more easily) in the odd layers. Also have some way to put cards from our graveyard into our library. After we resolve the top layer, we can resolve the top Tibalt's Trickery in the second layer, countering a lower Tibalt's Trickery (counter the nontoken one first so that it is available.) to recast the top spell. After the TT layer is exhausted, resolve the last TT and counter a spell from the next layer down, to cast TT again. The key is that we have to counter a non TT spell to recast TT, so we have to lose a spell from some layer further down. So I think this doesn't go infinite.

    Nine layers could certainly help out! Even juicier would be to make this into a stage somehow. But, I don't know how to set up a stage resource properly; the obvious resource would be some color of mana, but we would need the evaluation of alternating spells to get us back a mana somehow. I'm not seeing how to do that yet.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Hmm, that's an interesting possibility. Auspicious Starrix looks good, with the nice effect and the cheap mutate cost. There are a bunch of ways to put cards back into the library - one way is with Once and Future + Dual Strike + Ashiok's Erasure.


    Edit: Oh, we want to have everything be done at instant speed, so we want to use Mutate cards with flash. That leaves three possible choices - Dirge Bat, Pouncing Shoreshark and Sea-Dasher Octopus. None of these seem to have a useful Mutate ability.


    Edit: Also, we'll want to replace Cauldron's Gift with Demonic Gifts.


    Edit: Oh shoot, Smashing Success doesn't work, as we can use it on an artifact to create a Treasure token. Unfortunately, the only other spell I found that targeted a land was Cleasning Wildfire, and that is a sorcery. So we have a problem.

    We can target our land with Usher to Safety, but that can target any permanent, including artifacts. So, to make this work we need to have lands at a higher layer than artifacts. But, we want paylands to be at a higher layer than normal lands, and we want snow lands at the very top to get that layer from Jorn. This would normally be okay, except that the only artifacts I could find that produced mana, produced either 3 or 5 colors! Which means we can't put artifacts all that low. Hopefully, we'll see more narrow artifacts, either later in StrixHaven or in D&D. Until then, it looks like we need to give up something. We like the paylands and snow lands for their number of layers, so we need to give up either artifacts or normal lands - since we need to make copies of lands anyway, giving up artifacts seems like the easiest right now. That will cost us 2 layers, down to 11 at the moment, with a free color of mana to use.


    Edit: Hmm, I guess we don't need Demonic Gifts to bring Archon of Falling Stars back, since we can just destroy token copies. So the combo of Broken Wings and Archon of Falling Stars and Ashiok's Erasure appears to go infinite. We can replace Demonic Gifts and Broken Wings with Heartless Act, losing a layer.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    We can get a instant/sorcery copying setup of sorts using Sea Gate Stormcaller, and Dual Strike to reach up to CMC 4.

    I had the idea of using Demonic Gifts and Heartless Act to bring Skull Prophet from the graveyard to the battlefield and back. Unfortunately, if we want to use Sea Gate Stormcaller as our spell copier, we need to put them into play, without being able to put Skull Prophet into play instead. Just getting one Sea Gate Stormcaller every time we get a Skull Prophet isn't enough I think. So I don't know how to make it work. Rhythm of the Wild would be ideal it looks like, but it's not legal anymore.


    Edit: I believe I can bump this up to 13 layers. Instead of mutating with Vulpikeet, we use something cheap like Dirge Bat. Then, we use Absorb Identity, so that for a blue mana we can bounce our Dirge Bat and Mutate it again many times.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Okay, after a while, I've come up with:



    with the layer sequence being:

    Layer 1: Putting an enchantment into play allows us to perform the Thaumabroom combo, taking X Thaumabrooms to 2^X Thuamabrooms.

    Layer 2: Casting Cauldron's Gift can return Archon of Falling Stars many times, thanks to copies of Sea Gate Stormcaller. Archon of Falling Stars can then be destroyed by Broken Wings, to bring Ashiok's Erasure back, to trigger our Protean Thaumaturges.

    Layer 3: Tapping a Swamp generates a lot of black mana, thanks to Nyxbloom Ancients.

    Layer 4: Targeting Swamp with Smashing Success will create a lot of token copies, thanks to Orvar, the All-Form.

    Layer 5: Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass can tap for a lot of red mana, if we pay 3 life to have it come in untapped.

    Layer 6: Mutating with Vulpikeet will gain us a lot of life, thanks to Essence Symbiote.

    Layer 7: Tapping Savai Crystal generates a lot of white mana.

    Layer 8: Casting Depart the Realm creates many copies of Savai Crystal.

    Layer 9: Tapping Volatile Fjord generates a lot of blue mana.

    Layer 10: A trigger of Jorn, God of Winter untaps many copies of Volatile Fjord.

    Layer 11: In a combat phase, we can attack with many copies of Jorn, God of Winter.

    Layer 12: We can get many combat phases both after the precombat main phase and after the postcombat main phase, thanks to Moraug, Fury of Akoum.


    So we're looking at a score of something like 2 -> (2 -> X -> 12) -> 12, where X is how many landfall triggers we can generate before the first set of combat phases, assuming the above works out.

    We still have 31 slots left to improve the deck. Drawing out our deck should not be difficult - we can have four copies of Ugin, for example.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Turn 3 is very fast! Unfortunately, being able to cast spells for free messes up the idea I had above. We can look for an alternative layer sequence of course, but of we are going to use mana layers, we will need to look for activated costs, X or "was spent" spells, or spells cast outside of our hand.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, ELD-D&D Standard edition.
    Hmm, Ardent Electromancer would be pretty good, except it uses up red mana, so my idea of using Claim the Firstborn to give Canopy Tactician haste doesn't pan out. Unless, we use some other color of mana besides the green for Bala Ged Recovery to bring Claim the Firstborn back to our hand? Or, we could keep Bala Ged Recovery, and use a creature that taps for mana that isn't green... but I didn't see any such creatures.

    Leaving that aside, we can use Orvar, the All-Form to create many copies of our artifacts and lands, and then use The Bloody Massacre to get red mana. Then we could potentially get seven layers:

    Layer 1: putting an enchantment into play allows us to perform the Thaumabroom combo, taking X Thaumabrooms to 2^X Thuamabrooms.

    Layer 2: Tapping a land/artifact will generate a lot of mana thanks to Nyxbloom Ancients.

    Layer 3: Targeting a land/artifact with an instant/sorcery will create a lot of token copies thanks to Orvar, the All-Forms.

    Layer 4: Tapping an artifact/land will generate a lot of mana.

    Layer 5: Targeting an artifact/land with an instant/sorcery will create a lot of token copies.

    Layer 6: A trigger of The Bloodsky Massacre can generate a lot of red mana.

    Layer 7: We can trigger a lot of copies of The Bloodsky Massacre.
    Posted in: Magic General
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