Has anyone ever tried running Conflagrate main? From my own experiemce with the deck and considering Creamy's vids we often seem to have a problem with discarding everything we want. Sometimes it costs us a turn to only be able to discard 2 things of of Faithless Looting and we either have a dredger stuck in our hand or said dredger in the yard, but action cards in the hand. T2 Conflagrate discarding 2 to 4 important pieces seems insane; and fairly likely at that.
Thoughts?
I'm using one mainboard. The card is situational, sometimes you can kill an annoying creature/planeswalker or even finish the game with it, but the majority of games, even with conflagrate in your grave, you don't use it. Also the card is *****ty in your hand and you can't discard it using Lotleth Troll.
I'm sticking to one mainboard just to have the option on my grave (is good to have options).
Guys, test the lists. If you don't have the cards on MOL or IRL, you can test on xmage. I've played a lot the "midrange" build, and I still think the all in list is the best, sometimes you can have 12~18 cards in your graveyard on turn 2 and most of the games you are pressuring on turn 3~5. For me, the best option is win the game instead of holding it until you lose.
I am still kind of tinkering with the mana base (trying to get more RB instead of RG), but this is close to the 75 I'm going to take to GP Charlotte. The basic Idea is to use the 11 Looters (+SSG) to mill yourself ASAP. Use Bloodghasts and Narcomoebas to get free Prized Amalgams, which in turn let you cast Gravecrawlers for the Vengevines. I am focusing on speed and consistency over resilience. SB is some catch alls that hopefully I can find if they are needed with all of the draw and lots of lifegain for racing. My plan vs burn is to use Brownscale + Gnaw. Vs Aggro: Gnaw, Brownscale, Pharaoh. And vs Control: Leyline.
16 lands in a 3 colors deck and no Lotleth Troll? I think you gonna have a bad time...
I suggest you testing your build on xmage before going to GP with this.
Hey guys, I've been brewing over at the Dredge from Below thread and decided to try out Vengevine with the new SOI cards. I've just goldfished with a version of the "all in" list and it seems insane with the new cards.
The mana base is extremely greedy, I won't beat a blood moon ever, I need to tune it and get some Verdant Catacombs. So far the mulligans feel good and the deck is operating smoothly for the most part.
I really like Conflagrate for the extra reach. I've been trying out a few different cards in that slot, I've liked lingering souls (Just casting the back end.) a lot it gives you a little extra time for when you stumble. I've also been thinking about just using Life from the Loam in that slot though, seems the safest.
I'm using the "all in" list. Most of my games I don't draw or draw so few cards that I have to play only with my starting lands, that is why I want Life from the loam available on my graveyard when I need it. I even thought of using 3.
Interesting list! I'm going to test something very similar on a local tournament tomorrow. What I plan to do is have almost no interaction game 1 and just let the vegetable do what it does, and then side in a more midrangy deck. The doubt is: if you need more interaction, what do you side out? Neonate i think is one of the first to go, right?
The majority of these cards are better on grave instead of your hand, the only thing you want on this list is to dredge. A good game is a game that you don't draw any card, which is only possible with neonate. I think that is better to win fast rather than having a grindy matchup and with this list I usually win on turn 3~5.
Game 2 you don't need to play midrange. This is my strategy when sideboarding:
Is he playing lantern? Side in decay and grudge
Is he playing tron? Side in ghost quarter and ancient grudge
Is he playing white? Side in decay and ray of revelation because probably he plays rest in peace and that card destroy this deck.
Is he playing aggro? If so, side in Gnaw to the bone
Is he playing aggro and has several 1/1 creatures? Side in Darkblast
Did you easily won the first game? Don't side anything, he may not even have grave hate. Grafdigger's cage destroy our deck, but is possible to play around relic and tormod's crypt.
These are my targets when I have to side: bushwhacker / conflagrate / Tymaret / neonate
Whenever a I see someone saying "neonate is bad when you draw it late game" I always think "are we playing the same deck?".
Neonate is not bad late game because:
1) You don't get on late game, your opponent will be dead or you lost the game already
2) The majority of your games you will only draw 1~3 cards, the rest of the game is only dredge
I've being playing this deck on xmage after and before the amalgam release and I can tell that it is at least twice better now. I'm using a full aggro build, the first game I ignore my opponent threats and try to kill him as fast as I can. Usually (depending against what I'm playing) I don't even side anything.
Tyamaret is good to recur vengevine when you only have one gravecrawler or to recur amalgam sacrificing bloodghast and playing a land.
Conflagrate is there only because sometimes you don't have Lotleth Troll and will have many dead cards in your hand that could be used to finish the game.
Here is the list I'm using:
I think that 8 bushwhacker is too much, sometimes I have one on my hand and don't want to play because it will not add much to the table. Also, I think birds is a must have.
I tried the BUG version, but sometimes the crab was too inconsistent and I think that faithless loothing is better than the crab. Some pages ago someone posted a list with goblin bushwhacker, I tried it and loved the idea, so far I'm um using the old RBG version with the new reckless bushwhacker.
I'm using one mainboard. The card is situational, sometimes you can kill an annoying creature/planeswalker or even finish the game with it, but the majority of games, even with conflagrate in your grave, you don't use it. Also the card is *****ty in your hand and you can't discard it using Lotleth Troll.
I'm sticking to one mainboard just to have the option on my grave (is good to have options).
Don't forget that it can also trigger vengevine
16 lands in a 3 colors deck and no Lotleth Troll? I think you gonna have a bad time...
I suggest you testing your build on xmage before going to GP with this.
I would change 2 Golgari Thug or 2 Stinkweed Imp for 2 Life from the loam, also I wouldn't use Dakmor Salvage, you don't need that much dredgers.
1-2 against affinity
2-1 against jund
2-0 against assault loam
2-1 against affinity
I don't have the second blood crypt, so I had to play with 2 stomping ground. For this list I'm going to change:
1 stomping ground for 1 blood crypt
1 wooded foothills for 1 bloodstained mire
1 scavenging ooze for 1 bojuka bog
Maybe 2 reckless bushwhacker for something else
The majority of these cards are better on grave instead of your hand, the only thing you want on this list is to dredge. A good game is a game that you don't draw any card, which is only possible with neonate. I think that is better to win fast rather than having a grindy matchup and with this list I usually win on turn 3~5.
Game 2 you don't need to play midrange. This is my strategy when sideboarding:
Is he playing lantern? Side in decay and grudge
Is he playing tron? Side in ghost quarter and ancient grudge
Is he playing white? Side in decay and ray of revelation because probably he plays rest in peace and that card destroy this deck.
Is he playing aggro? If so, side in Gnaw to the bone
Is he playing aggro and has several 1/1 creatures? Side in Darkblast
Did you easily won the first game? Don't side anything, he may not even have grave hate. Grafdigger's cage destroy our deck, but is possible to play around relic and tormod's crypt.
These are my targets when I have to side: bushwhacker / conflagrate / Tymaret / neonate
Neonate is not bad late game because:
1) You don't get on late game, your opponent will be dead or you lost the game already
2) The majority of your games you will only draw 1~3 cards, the rest of the game is only dredge
I've being playing this deck on xmage after and before the amalgam release and I can tell that it is at least twice better now. I'm using a full aggro build, the first game I ignore my opponent threats and try to kill him as fast as I can. Usually (depending against what I'm playing) I don't even side anything.
Tyamaret is good to recur vengevine when you only have one gravecrawler or to recur amalgam sacrificing bloodghast and playing a land.
Conflagrate is there only because sometimes you don't have Lotleth Troll and will have many dead cards in your hand that could be used to finish the game.
Here is the list I'm using:
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
2 Swamp
Creatures
4 Gravecrawler
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Vengevine
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
2 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Faithless Looting
2 Life from the Loam
1 Conflagrate
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Darkblast
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Murderous Cut
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Abrupt Decay
Turn 1:
Land, play Birds of paradise
Turn 2:
Play Insolent Neonate, sac it to dredge 6 cards with Golgari Grave-Troll (4 vengevine and 2 bloodghast)
Land, return bloodghast
Play Reckless Bushwhacker with surge, return vengevine
Attack for 28 Damage!
Try this card, it is great on this deck. Buff + haste + helps returning vengevine.
I've got many games surprising my enemy with a empty board and doing 13 damage with gurmag angler + Reckless Bushwhacker + vengevine.
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
2 Stomping Ground
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
3 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Vengevine
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
Others
1 Murderous Cut
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Faithless Looting
4 Grisly Salvage
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Darkblast
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Murderous Cut
1 Life from the Loam
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Abrupt Decay