You know, despite being a somewhat obvious thing to do, I think that Winter Orb is the first old-frame border extension that I've seen done that way (or maybe it's common and i just haven't noticed?). Nice.
It is quite common. Actually, I think border-only alters for modern-bordered cards are harder to find than old-bordered ones. Or at least I can't recall any modern card that I saw painted like this...
I agree with wtwlf123 with Shelldock Isle not being that great of a card, specially if there are plenty of support for aggressive strategies in the cube. I have it in my watchlist for taking it out of my cube since it always seems it is three turns late to do what it needs.
I disagree with Tamiyo and Dungeon Geists though, they have both been from pretty good to great in my experience.
Hey guys, had a couple of drafts yesterday (both with 4 people) with my larger and crazier cube and the increase in size and the test pool were received very nicely by my players. Since the cube didn't increase so much in size picks remained consistency and the test pool did what it was supposed to do very well: Most cards were picked and main decked in either or both of the drafts.
This is a breakdown of archetypes and the winners in both drafts: 1st Draft: UWB Aggro/Control UR Control BGW Rock BR "Vampires" Aggro
2nd Draft: UR Wildfire Control GWR Naya Beatdown
Mono B Midrange GWR Naya Ramp/Pod
(yes, there was a single player in both black and blue)
After each draft I talked to my players about the cards in the test pool to better access them and I could gather the following:
Champion of the Parish
MVP in the UWB aggro/control I played in the first round. It was at least a 2/2 and got to be 4/4 in at least one game. Even though it wasn't played in any of the decks in the second draft, he was brutal in the first one and really impressed me. It's not an autoinclude in any deck, but it was much better than I thought it would be. This has a great potential to be added to the main 566.
AEther Spellbomb
I was pretty sure this would be a good card and it was even paired with Trinket Mage in the second draft in my UR Wildfire Control deck (was also played in the UR control in the first game). It has a modestly powerful effect and the turn it buys was always crucial for the control deck. Not sure I want this card in the 566, but it sure is good enough.
Fettergeist
I could only play against this card in the first draft (wasn't played in the second one). It was in the UR control deck and it did lots of awesome stuff: It was a great blocker agains early opposing threats from aggro decks and was a threat on its own against slower decks. I thought this would be extremely inferior to Serendib, but it looks like it is as close as a card can be these days. Will definitely want him in the cube in the future.
Mental Misstep
Was really unimpressed with the card. It countered a late Llanowar Elves and got pitched to Force of Will in the second draft, but that was it. I will keep it in the test pool for a while longer to see if it really shines somewhere.
Despise
Main decked each draft and was a valuable card whenever it was cast. I want it in the main, but will be tested a bit longer. Mostly because I'm not sure what to cut just yet.
Chandra, the Firebrand
Got picked and decked into the UR control in the first game and almost got played in the Naya Beatdown in the second draft (there was way too many 4-drops for this to go in). Didn't seem to get played though, so no data available for now.
Traitorous Instinct
It's a pretty narrow card, but is a great finisher in beatdown decks. Even if it doesn't outright kill the opponent, it messes with combat math, and the mere existence of the card poses a real threat. Also, it was played alongside Ulvenwald Tracker in Naya Beatdown the second game. Looks like it was fun, so i'll keep it in to test it a bit more.
Noxious Revival
Was always an uninteresting card to main deck and no deck seemed to want it. I will drop it from the test pool for now. Maybe I'll try it later in the future, but nobody seemed to like it.
Beast Within
Not enough data on this one, but players wanted this in. Will keep it in the pool to see where this goes. The players did wanted more answers to troublesome permanents though, so this might get into the cube as it is a good answer card.
Deathrite Shaman
It was not the powerhouse it could be because it wasn't played along with enough fetch lands, but everyone loved it and want it in. This will keep in the test pool for a while, but I will probably cut Putrefy for this.
So, most cards will be kept into the test pool for another round, but plenty of them are proving to be quite worthy. After all of this, my test pool will be the following:
And between the two Heroes, the Accorder Paladin, the Sword and Goldmane, he was kinda a house.
Looks like a great deck!
Does most of the decks on your cube get this amount of nonbasic lands? I know my players prioritize mana fixing a lot, but I'm not sure if it would be the same for you. If so, you might even try Skyshroud Elite as an aggressive 1 drop for green. I've had him in cube like 4 years ago and he was an OK card (it was a larger pool and had less nonbasics). Maybe it's time to test him out again...:rolleyes:
So far, Champion has been a real dud in testing. I'm hoping for a good white 1-drop to replace it with in the next set.
Arrester is okay, but I think Lone Missionary is a much stronger card. Once that gets rolling with some kind of bounce/recursion engine, it's pretty beastly.
I'll take your comment as a warning and not add the Champion in my cube then.
Well, I think we both have our 1W 2/1s prioritized for different decks then. The Arrester is in my list mostly to help out aggro strategies. It's not as good as the missionary in blink decks, but it definitely breaks the combat math when played.
In green, I'm going to replace the Jaguar with Ulvenwald Tracker. Extra removal in green, and a good late-game target for Ranger of Eos is always welcome. Plus, it's an extra human for Champion of the Parish. If it fails to work out, I can add Twinblade Slasher in.
Ulvenwald is a neat card. Good to see you getting rid of the echo 1-drops. The only one I had in my cube was the Jaguar and it was only there until I saw the preview for Experiment One. Then it became a proxy.
Also, I noticed you pushed Noble Hierarch into misc classification sometime this month. Not sure about your players, but in my cube Hierarch is picked for the exalted+green mana, so any green deck picks it up pretty quickly (usually Zoo or RG decks). Does it actually pay of to have it as a misc card even though the color-fixing aspect of the card can be ignored?
Hey guys, thanks for the comments! I've just removed the duplicated picture.
Also, just got the cube comparison result and I'm uploading it to the third post right now. It seems that it is most similar to wtwlf's one (not surprisingly) and there are plenty of stuff for me to think about adding in my next update (most notably Fettergeist, since Serendib is such an important card for Ux tempo decks). Still welcoming suggestions on cool stuff to add.
Awesome. I look forward to using a test pool in my cube as well
Also, since you are trying Syndic of Thites, have you tested Basilica Screecher as well? I'm not sure it would be great in pauper cubing, but it has been one of my favourite Gatecrash cards to draft with.
Hey, wtwlf! First, I need to thank you for updating you list for such a long time. When I rebuilt my cube earlier this year I took yours as a base since it seemed that you supported most of the cube archetypes me and my friend loved to play with.
So, any update on the testing of Champion of the Parish? I ask this because I'm planning to add some cards to my cube and there might be a slot for a 1cc white creature there. Also, if he's doing good and you are thinking about other humans to add, you might as well try Azorius Arrester (in my list I took Lone Missionary for it). It has been great for me in both Wx aggro and UW tempo. It even got played in a RGBW super-aggresive deck once and did pretty well.
EDIT: Oh, and any feedback you could give on my list would be awesome as well!
Hi, sorry for taking so long to answer, but I hadn't checked in these parts for a while.
I have tested a couple of cards in the list (namely Lich Lord of Unx and Call to the Grave) and the deck got a bit too controlish to my tastes. I ended up dismantling the deck to build a couple of others, but I often think about rebuilding it because it was so much fun.
Usually my strategy for beating grave hate was sending more stuff to the grave before they could hate me out again. The thing is, with the amount of pressure this deck can apply to your opponents, they will be hard-pressed to find any grave-hate.
If you are facing too many cards like Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void, you might as well try switching one of the reanimators to Chaos Warp and try to play more aggresively. It depends on your meta, but you might also try to switch it to a more counter-controlish build, force the combos more or even cut the combo cards to add more aggression (maybe with Bad Moon or something like that) so you don't depend too much on your graveyard.
Even though I never played a pauper cube before, I gotta say your concept of a Test Pool is pretty cool and I really want to try it out in my cube!
Do you have any tips/hints for using a test pool? (I planned to lurk a bit and look for notes about it in this thread, but 44 pages is a bit too much for me :p)
1 Welkin Tern (Ux aggro could use more love) 1 Pestermite (Ux aggro/tempo; plus comboes with Kiki) 1 Spell Pierce (wanted a good sideboard counterspell)
1 Knight of Infamy (Bx aggro) 1 Nameless Inversion (wanted any removal, this one looked versatile in UB aggro/tempo) 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (always loved this card :D; makes necropotence and geralf's messenger easier to cast and I love both cards as well)
The following cards are being watched for not doing enough in the cube or for doing too much. They are very likely to be put on probation or just simply cut from the cube. I usually forget to put cards in my watch list.
It is quite common. Actually, I think border-only alters for modern-bordered cards are harder to find than old-bordered ones. Or at least I can't recall any modern card that I saw painted like this...
I disagree with Tamiyo and Dungeon Geists though, they have both been from pretty good to great in my experience.
Yeah, technically, the Orb is still white-bordered
This is a breakdown of archetypes and the winners in both drafts:
1st Draft:
UWB Aggro/Control
UR Control
BGW Rock
BR "Vampires" Aggro
2nd Draft:
UR Wildfire Control
GWR Naya Beatdown
Mono B Midrange
GWR Naya Ramp/Pod
(yes, there was a single player in both black and blue)
After each draft I talked to my players about the cards in the test pool to better access them and I could gather the following:
Champion of the Parish
MVP in the UWB aggro/control I played in the first round. It was at least a 2/2 and got to be 4/4 in at least one game. Even though it wasn't played in any of the decks in the second draft, he was brutal in the first one and really impressed me. It's not an autoinclude in any deck, but it was much better than I thought it would be. This has a great potential to be added to the main 566.
The deck also had the following humans to aid him out: Elite Vanguard, Accorder Paladin, High-Priest of Penance, Battlefield Medic, Ranger of Eos, and Snapcaster Mage. There might have been one or two other humans as well but I'm not sure.
AEther Spellbomb
I was pretty sure this would be a good card and it was even paired with Trinket Mage in the second draft in my UR Wildfire Control deck (was also played in the UR control in the first game). It has a modestly powerful effect and the turn it buys was always crucial for the control deck. Not sure I want this card in the 566, but it sure is good enough.
Fettergeist
I could only play against this card in the first draft (wasn't played in the second one). It was in the UR control deck and it did lots of awesome stuff: It was a great blocker agains early opposing threats from aggro decks and was a threat on its own against slower decks. I thought this would be extremely inferior to Serendib, but it looks like it is as close as a card can be these days. Will definitely want him in the cube in the future.
Mental Misstep
Was really unimpressed with the card. It countered a late Llanowar Elves and got pitched to Force of Will in the second draft, but that was it. I will keep it in the test pool for a while longer to see if it really shines somewhere.
Despise
Main decked each draft and was a valuable card whenever it was cast. I want it in the main, but will be tested a bit longer. Mostly because I'm not sure what to cut just yet.
Chandra, the Firebrand
Got picked and decked into the UR control in the first game and almost got played in the Naya Beatdown in the second draft (there was way too many 4-drops for this to go in). Didn't seem to get played though, so no data available for now.
Traitorous Instinct
It's a pretty narrow card, but is a great finisher in beatdown decks. Even if it doesn't outright kill the opponent, it messes with combat math, and the mere existence of the card poses a real threat. Also, it was played alongside Ulvenwald Tracker in Naya Beatdown the second game. Looks like it was fun, so i'll keep it in to test it a bit more.
Noxious Revival
Was always an uninteresting card to main deck and no deck seemed to want it. I will drop it from the test pool for now. Maybe I'll try it later in the future, but nobody seemed to like it.
Beast Within
Not enough data on this one, but players wanted this in. Will keep it in the pool to see where this goes. The players did wanted more answers to troublesome permanents though, so this might get into the cube as it is a good answer card.
Deathrite Shaman
It was not the powerhouse it could be because it wasn't played along with enough fetch lands, but everyone loved it and want it in. This will keep in the test pool for a while, but I will probably cut Putrefy for this.
So, most cards will be kept into the test pool for another round, but plenty of them are proving to be quite worthy. After all of this, my test pool will be the following:
1 Fettergeist (great so far)
1 Mental Misstep
1 Despise
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Traitorous Instinct
1 Gyre Sage (new)
1 Beast Within
1 Deathrite Shaman (great so far)
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (new)
Looks like a great deck!
Does most of the decks on your cube get this amount of nonbasic lands? I know my players prioritize mana fixing a lot, but I'm not sure if it would be the same for you. If so, you might even try Skyshroud Elite as an aggressive 1 drop for green. I've had him in cube like 4 years ago and he was an OK card (it was a larger pool and had less nonbasics). Maybe it's time to test him out again...:rolleyes:
I'll take your comment as a warning and not add the Champion in my cube then.
Well, I think we both have our 1W 2/1s prioritized for different decks then. The Arrester is in my list mostly to help out aggro strategies. It's not as good as the missionary in blink decks, but it definitely breaks the combat math when played.
Ulvenwald is a neat card. Good to see you getting rid of the echo 1-drops. The only one I had in my cube was the Jaguar and it was only there until I saw the preview for Experiment One. Then it became a proxy.
Also, I noticed you pushed Noble Hierarch into misc classification sometime this month. Not sure about your players, but in my cube Hierarch is picked for the exalted+green mana, so any green deck picks it up pretty quickly (usually Zoo or RG decks). Does it actually pay of to have it as a misc card even though the color-fixing aspect of the card can be ignored?
Also, just got the cube comparison result and I'm uploading it to the third post right now. It seems that it is most similar to wtwlf's one (not surprisingly) and there are plenty of stuff for me to think about adding in my next update (most notably Fettergeist, since Serendib is such an important card for Ux tempo decks). Still welcoming suggestions on cool stuff to add.
Also, since you are trying Syndic of Thites, have you tested Basilica Screecher as well? I'm not sure it would be great in pauper cubing, but it has been one of my favourite Gatecrash cards to draft with.
So, any update on the testing of Champion of the Parish? I ask this because I'm planning to add some cards to my cube and there might be a slot for a 1cc white creature there. Also, if he's doing good and you are thinking about other humans to add, you might as well try Azorius Arrester (in my list I took Lone Missionary for it). It has been great for me in both Wx aggro and UW tempo. It even got played in a RGBW super-aggresive deck once and did pretty well.
EDIT: Oh, and any feedback you could give on my list would be awesome as well!
4x Squadron Hawkincluded 2013/apr/203x Nissa's Chosen + 1x Nissa Revane
3x Arachnus Web + 1x Arachnus Spinner
Storm Package:
Mind's Desire, Brain Freeze, Tendrils of Agony, Empty the Warrens, High Tide, + enablers
Mill Package:
Mind Grind, Mesmeric Orb, Consuming Aberration, Riddlekeeper, Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker, Sands of Delirium, Nephalia Drownyard, Sewer Nemesis
Artifact Abuse Package:
Tolarian Academy, Metalworker, Mishra's Workshop, Voltaic Key, Time Vault
I have tested a couple of cards in the list (namely Lich Lord of Unx and Call to the Grave) and the deck got a bit too controlish to my tastes. I ended up dismantling the deck to build a couple of others, but I often think about rebuilding it because it was so much fun.
Usually my strategy for beating grave hate was sending more stuff to the grave before they could hate me out again. The thing is, with the amount of pressure this deck can apply to your opponents, they will be hard-pressed to find any grave-hate.
If you are facing too many cards like Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void, you might as well try switching one of the reanimators to Chaos Warp and try to play more aggresively. It depends on your meta, but you might also try to switch it to a more counter-controlish build, force the combos more or even cut the combo cards to add more aggression (maybe with Bad Moon or something like that) so you don't depend too much on your graveyard.
Do you have any tips/hints for using a test pool? (I planned to lurk a bit and look for notes about it in this thread, but 44 pages is a bit too much for me :p)
Unusual cards:
Recommended cards:
• Changed cube size to 576 (36 cards added, color balance restored)
• Added Test Pool section
1 Lone Missionary (overall good card)
1 Silverblade Paladin (needed a good 3-drop in white)
1 Harm's Way (wanted a cool combat trick in white)
1 Terminus (pushing Ux control a bit)
1 Welkin Tern (Ux aggro could use more love)
1 Pestermite (Ux aggro/tempo; plus comboes with Kiki)
1 Spell Pierce (wanted a good sideboard counterspell)
1 Knight of Infamy (Bx aggro)
1 Nameless Inversion (wanted any removal, this one looked versatile in UB aggro/tempo)
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (always loved this card :D; makes necropotence and geralf's messenger easier to cast and I love both cards as well)
1 Mizzium Mortars (Rx control/counterburn)
1 Slagstorm (Rx control/counterburn)
1 Terastodon (ramp/reanimator target)
1 Farseek (ramp, RG wildfire)
1 Nature's Lore (ramp, RG wildfire)
1 Wayfarer's Bauble (wanted a 2CC mana rock, this one is trinketable)
1 Mystic Gate (UW missing a fixing land)
1 Inkfathom Infiltrator (Ux/Bx aggro)
1 Bituminous Blast (BR control/midrange)
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager (couldn't get a Domri Rade yet)
1 Loxodon Hierarch (GW midrange)
1 Mortify
1 Putrefy
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Jilt (UR conterburn)
-Glorious Anthem¹ → +Champion of the Parish²
-Crystal Shard¹ → +Fettergeist²
-The Abyss¹ → Despise²
-Goblin Settler¹ → Chandra, the Firebrand²
-Zuran Orb³ → Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker²
-Bad River → Sunken Ruins
-Caves of Koilos → +Fetid Heath
-Putrefy → +Deathrite Shaman²
¹ = Card went to probation
² = Card was in the test pool
³ = Card was in the watch list
Announcement
-Eureka¹³ → +Natural Order²
¹ = Card went to probation
² = Card was in the test pool
³ = Card was in the watch list
Announcement
-Welkin Tern → +Azure Mage
-Sinkhole¹ → +Wrench Mind
-Magma Spray → +Pillar of Flame
-Deathbridge Goliath → +Obstinate Baloth
-Razormane Masticore → +Revoke Existence
-Karn, Silver Golem → +Psyonic Blast
-Triskelion → +Faerie Macabre
-Wayfarer's Bauble → +Heart Kami
-Gilded Lotus → +Viridian Zealot
-Torrent of Souls → +Olivia Voldaren
-Obzedat, Ghost Council → +Gerard's Veredict
¹ = Card was in the watch list
Announcement
- Thornling¹ → + Wolfir Silverheart²
- Faerie Macabre → + Withered Wretch
- Wildfire → + Burning of Xinye
¹ Card was in the Watch List
² Card was in the Test Pool
Announcement
Big Dragon's Maze update
-Weathered Wayfarer → +Exalted Angel
-Catastrophe → +Pacifism
-Timetwister¹³ → +Coralhelm Commander
-Control Magic → +Wake Thresher
-Enclave Cryptologist → +Voidmage Prodigy ²
-Waterfront Bouncer → +Sygg, River Cutthroat
-Death Cloud → +Blood Scrivener
-Shrine of Burning Rage → +Pyrewild Shaman
-Rivalry → Zo-zu, the Punisher
-Green Sun's Zenith → +Eureka ²
-Black Vise → +Pithing Needle #2
-Mortarpod → +Gyre Sage ²
-Erratic Portal → +Spike Jester
-Absorb → +Sphinx's Revelation
-Vithian Renegades → +Savageborn Hydra
-Desolate Lighthouse → +Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius ²
-Steamcore Weird → +Ral Zarek
-Aurelia's Fury → +Firemane Avenger
¹ = Card went to probation
² = Card was in the test pool
³ = Card was in the watch list
Announcement
- Sulfuric Springs → + Graven Cairns
- Llanowar Wastes → + Twilight Mire
Announcement
- Revoke Existence → + Imposing Sovereign
- Magus of the Moat → + Banisher Priest
- Capsize → + Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
- Consacrated Sphinx → + Cursecatcher
- Impulse → + Cloud of Faeries (Test Pool Slot)
- Shelldock Isle³ → + Ninja of the Deep Hours
- Tooth and Nails → + Gush
- Nekrataal → + Liliana's Reaver
- Living Death → + Wasteland #2
- Bloodline Keeper → + Fulminator Mage
- Vampire Nighthawk → + Cemetery Reaper (Test Pool Slot)
- Burning of Xynie → + Goblin Ruinblaster²
- Rolling Earthquake → + Hell's Thunder
- Kargan Dragonlord → + Burst Lightning
- Chandra, the Firebrand → + Chandra, Pyromaster
- Terastodon → + Gaea's Cradle²
- Fyndhorn Elves → + Elvish Mystic
- Momentary Blink → + Lyev Skyknight
- Forbidden Alchemy¹ → + Far//Away²
- Armada Wurm¹ → + Voice of Resurgence²
- High-Priest of Penance → + Stillmoon Cavalier
- Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius → + Turn//Burn
¹ = Card in now on probation
² = Card was in the test pool
³ = Card was in the watch list
Announcement
Lyev Skyknight moved to the test pool as a honorary test pool slot.
Announcement
1 Fettergeist
1 Mental Misstep
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Despise
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Traitorous Instinct
1 Beast Within
1 Noxious Revival
1 Deathrite Shaman
• This was the first test pool ever tested
Results
1 Fettergeist (great so far)
1 Mental Misstep
1 Despise
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Traitorous Instinct
1 Gyre Sage (new)
1 Beast Within
1 Deathrite Shaman (great so far)
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (new)
Results
1 Glorious Anthem (probation)
1 Angelic Destiny (new)
1 Voidmage Prodigy (new)
1 Crystal Shard (probation)
1 Crypt Ghast (new)
1 The Abyss (probation)
1 Goblin Settler (probation)
1 Gyre Sage
1 Wolfir Silverheart (new)
• This was the first list that had cards on probation.
Results
1 Voidmage Prodigy
1 Crystal Shard (probation; great)
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Goblin Ruinblaster (new)
1 Skyshroud Elite (new)
1 Quirion Dryad (new)
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Eureka (probation)
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius (new)
Results
1 Skyshroud Elite
1 Quirion Dryad
1 Eureka (probation)
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius (good)
4 Squadron Hawk (new)
Results
1 Timetwister (probation)
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain (new)
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Skyshroud Elite
1 Renegade Krasis (new)
1 Far//Away (new)
1 Sire of Insanity (new)
1 Voice of Resurgence (new)
1 Gaea's Cradle (new; good)
Results
1 Timetwister (probation)
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain (new)
1 Goblin Ruinblaster (good)
1 Renegade Krasis (new)
1 Hystrodon (new)
1 Far//Away (new)
1 Sire of Insanity (new)
1 Voice of Resurgence (new)
1 Gaea's Cradle (new; good)
Results
1 Mistblade Shinobi (new)
1 Sakashima's Student (new)
1 Standstill (new)
1 Cemetery Reaper (new)
1 Stab Wound (new)
1 Pain's Reward (new)
1 Renegade Krasis
1 Hystrodon (good)
1 Momentary Blink (probation)
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Armada Wurm (probation)
Results
1 Spellstutter Sprite (new)
1 Mistblade Shinobi
1 Sakashima's Student
1 Standstill
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Stab Wound
1 Young Pyromancer (new)
1 Hystrodon (good)
1 Lyev Skyknight
1 Momentary Blink (probation)
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Armada Wurm (probation)
Results pending
Last updated: 2013/july/15