Thanks guys I built this deck and I'm starting loving it. Which matchup we have to cover with sideboard ? I see Grafdigger's Cage being good, Warping Wail and Crumble to dust both seems really good. My meta in my LGS in Italy is usually unpredictable, so in an unknown meta what else can I add to the sideboard ?
I like to use creatures in my sb where possible with this deck so I dont end up being threat light.
while I do run graft diggers cage, I have cut down to just the 1 and added two scavanging oooze which is good for aggressive m/ups and another option for some of the combo decks like living end, storm , dredge
and I prefer kitchen finks as my go to for burn m/ups, and I have been trying bringing it in against the removal heavy decks like jund
I also run a single ugin to compliment a single all is dust as a catch all
affinity is big in my meta so I run 2 shatter storms an ancient grudge and a natural state. I would like to try and change a storm for a fracturing gust but I think that the mana is just to greedy unlike the bant version.
Scrying is obviously better than Oath, allows us to have that land toolbox we so much need.
On another topic: what can I do to improve my MU vs Scapeshift/Valakut-Titan/Breach-Valakut type decks? What sideboard cards are there to deal with these decks?
crumble to dust and warping wail are good at least for scapeshift
I play in a meta that always has some amount of affinity, and that m/up is very bad trying to find something for my flex slots that arnt also bad in other m/up. Seems it could also help vs jund which I have also been finding a bit tough
I disagree with the notion that we must focus mostly on increasing our already good matchups. Our matchups vs the majority of control and midrange decks is in our favor. There aren't many cards we need to shore up the bad matchups really. Some of the really bad matchups like Scapeshift, 8 whack, and Merfolk would require changing around some like 6+ cards in the deck just for those, then it isn't worth it. It sort of is like Abzan Company against RG Tron - the general consensus is to just accept that the Tron matchup is Abyssmal and not dedicate that many cards for it. Instead just focus on the almost even matchups and interacting with hate cards that stop your gameplan.
The #1 gameplan for this deck, and one that almost ANY deck has trouble beating is T2 TKS into T3 Smasher. Maximizing that chance will give us a higher win percentage against all matchups. The only times it can be an issue is with decks that can outrace us - that get under us, like 8 whack, Affinity, Infect, and small Zoo. There you would rather get all your removal spells, gum up the ground, and then slowly whittle your way to victory (see the article Who is the Beat Down for the theory here basically). Finding a way to more easily stabilize in those matchups without harming our other matchups I think is where this deck needs to go. And then you make the deck-building decisions based on the expected meta representation of those decks.
Affinity and Infect are very heavily played in most metas, so Skyspawner and Spellskite to me are easy includes. Spellskite though not an aggressive card obviously, will shore up some bad matchups and allow us to protect our bigger threats (where again, we usually win through TKS and Smasher beatdowns). Skyspawner is bad against Electrolyze / Forked Bolt decks, okay vs mid-range/control decks, and great vs aggro decks for 2 bodies in 1 and the ability to block early flyers. Matter Reshaper is good vs removal heavy decks and grindy decks as well as decent vs some aggro decks as a road block, but does nothing against Affinity and Infect where it almost never can actually block. I think Spellskite, Skyspawner, and Reshaper are the flex slots in the deck that you split however you like and everything else stays as is. Then based on your maindeck you have a similar sideboard to most of the 15 you're seeing around.
At least my opinion on the matter. I was trying Oath of Nissa for a while to help deal with flooding, but when I think of the card I cut for it, I almost always would rather have had that card there instead. So I ended up cutting Oath and going back to a more standard 60. I really want to test Finks as a great value creature to shore up our matchups vs early aggro decks so will be trying that next (see my recent write up where I post such a build).
I have found finks to be really good. I play 3 instead of timely.
after today added the 2 contortion, 1 petition and 4th languish to the main board
The mage rings were OK, probably better than the shrines which is what i swapped them for last minute
The mirror pools were ok, they did make my oponents have to play around them a couple of times.
Endbringer was great got it working a couple of times, 6 cmc is a lot though so 1 seems right
I still like the ruins adding value to TKS and smasher but I could see adding a couple of shrines and add the ulamog to the main deck
I wish there was another 4cc hard to deal or value with creature that was B or colourless, kalitas is great in some m/up but terrible vs the displacer,reflector mage and creature light decks. I might try and fit 4 matter reshapers back in
Ran basically Conley Woods B eldrazi at a small pptq today to a 3-2 result.
Beat RG ramp, jund and GW tokens. All these games the hand disruption just ruined thier game plan and the ruins adding counters to TKS and smasher made them to hard to deal with.
lost to bant coco and a lower to the ground bant coco deck based around thalia's lieutenant. was just 2 slow and early interaction wasn't enough as they always had reflector mage to clear path or could just walk right past the bearers. I didnt draw a matter reshaper or end bringer all day.
I never once had no cards in hand so the sea gates were bad, and while they wouldnt have helped much in my loses I think mirror pool would have been much better.
one of my loses was directly missing land drops turns 4 to 6 on the draw , this is a mana hungry deck so upping to 25 lands and see if I dont get to slowed down with evolving wilds to help enable dilerium.
I was side boarding out hangerbacks and bearers a lot to bring in more sweepers or hand interaction, I think i will change to something more like
4 Ruins of Oran-Rief seems a lot. I think 2 mirrorpools would be nice. Also, you didn't think having 4 lands coming in tapped slowed you don much? It's largely for that reason I'm running two mirrorpools and only 1 ruins of oran-rief.
Ruins has been awesome.
In Conleysome version even just pumping hanger back tokens is relevant. But mostly adding counters to TKS to put it out of chandra languish and grasp range also turning smasher into an even better threat.
Maybe in my proposed version it wont be as good
Do you recall at all what you sided in against GW Tokens? GW Tokens is believed to be the most powerful deck in Standard right now, and I had one FNM where almost everyone at the shop played that deck, and I went home 0-3. The fact that you and kpal both won against GW Tokens seemingly with ease makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong here.
Languish, Transgress ,path ,Duress, to the slaughter , basically go full control
Being get able to attack plainswalkers both in hand and on board is the key.
It seems like a creature deck but it's a deck based on spells.
Ran basically Conley Woods B eldrazi at a small pptq today to a 3-2 result.
Beat RG ramp, jund and GW tokens. All these games the hand disruption just ruined thier game plan and the ruins adding counters to TKS and smasher made them to hard to deal with.
lost to bant coco and a lower to the ground bant coco deck based around thalia's lieutenant. was just 2 slow and early interaction wasn't enough as they always had reflector mage to clear path or could just walk right past the bearers. I didnt draw a matter reshaper or end bringer all day.
I never once had no cards in hand so the sea gates were bad, and while they wouldnt have helped much in my loses I think mirror pool would have been much better.
one of my loses was directly missing land drops turns 4 to 6 on the draw , this is a mana hungry deck so upping to 25 lands and see if I dont get to slowed down with evolving wilds to help enable dilerium.
I was side boarding out hangerbacks and bearers a lot to bring in more sweepers or hand interaction, I think i will change to something more like
4 Ruins of Oran-Rief seems a lot. I think 2 mirrorpools would be nice. Also, you didn't think having 4 lands coming in tapped slowed you don much? It's largely for that reason I'm running two mirrorpools and only 1 ruins of oran-rief.
Ruins has been awesome.
In Conleysome version even just pumping hanger back tokens is relevant. But mostly adding counters to TKS to put it out of chandra languish and grasp range also turning smasher into an even better threat.
Maybe in my proposed version it wont be as good
Ran basically Conley Woods B eldrazi at a small pptq today to a 3-2 result.
Beat RG ramp, jund and GW tokens. All these games the hand disruption just ruined thier game plan and the ruins adding counters to TKS and smasher made them to hard to deal with.
lost to bant coco and a lower to the ground bant coco deck based around thalia's lieutenant. was just 2 slow and early interaction wasn't enough as they always had reflector mage to clear path or could just walk right past the bearers. I didnt draw a matter reshaper or end bringer all day.
I never once had no cards in hand so the sea gates were bad, and while they wouldnt have helped much in my loses I think mirror pool would have been much better.
one of my loses was directly missing land drops turns 4 to 6 on the draw , this is a mana hungry deck so upping to 25 lands and see if I dont get to slowed down with evolving wilds to help enable dilerium.
I was side boarding out hangerbacks and bearers a lot to bring in more sweepers or hand interaction, I think i will change to something more like
I have been running sam blacks list, 3 cards different in 75
I have been siding in
transgress x1, duress x1, grip of desolation x1(I have found this to be much better option than clip wings), languish x2, to the slaughter x1, virulent plague x1
siding out grasp of darkness x1, tireless tracker x4, kalitas x1, ob nixilis x1
I have found even game 1 it usually goes 1 way or the other.
We get an on curve draw with some interaction and eventually win after taking some early damage or they get an on curve draw into a gideon that we have no answer for and lose badly. Also goes badly if you miss land drops in the early turns.
I was going to postthis in the RG ramp thread but I guess it fits more in here as the natural evolution
I played Sam Blacks list today at a 28 man PPTQ, a high quality field with a couple who have been on PT or to super sunday series.
I made the following changes from Sams list
-1 clip wings from the sb for + grip of desolation, slightly more versatile westvale abbey and avacyn hate. Ramp has been popular here and being able to hit sanctums and ulamogs relevant.
-1 tireless tracker for + Tamiyo's journal, I expected the meta to be more control than there was and was trailing some creatureless card advantage, in the end I didnt either draw it all day or sideboarded it out as it wasnt what I was looking for g2/3
R1 vs RG ramp(no dorks)
g1 I get a fast start with advocate into nissa into nissa's pilgrimage, while he just ramps then he misplays badly dropping a chandra and then using it to attack me. I play my 6th land activate quagmire and swing back for lethal
g2 sideboard out stuff that dies easily , decimate his hand with duress into transgress into 2 infinite obliteration, killing the only creature he plays a void winnower then game stalls while I have a lethal board with a huge hydra(imisplayed here not grabbing my mirrorpool to copy the hydra) he plays a large hangerback so we both play land go for about 7 turns as we both just draw lands till I draw grip of desolation for the win.
r2 vs GW tokens
g1 he gets a fast start with double advocate plays around languish with a double dromaka's command on 1 to put it out of languish range (I had in hand). I do eventually manage to stabilize with revelation but still at a low life total. I was treading water for a few turns , then went for a great aurora off a tutor to clear up his board with a gideon and a nissa in play- he drew 12, I drew 18 but only 6 lands 2 of which were evolving wilds died to an eot secure the wastes.
g2 sideboarded out some high end and non impactful stuff for sweepers and plague, I should have added more hand control. we both mull to 6, I get a reasonable start , have answers for his threats he dies to advocates and man lands
g3 only 10 left in the round. I keep a 2 lander with some cheap interaction but miss land drops in turns 4 to 6, he gets a reasonable start and i die to a gideon in turns
r3 BG rites
g1 game went to mid game. I misplayed when I didn't tutor for a kalitus then he eot companies into a cutthroat and husk to kill me.
g2 opening hand had 1 world breaker 1 explosive 1 pilgrimage 1 removal spell and 3 lands, when i died I had 14 lands and a total of 6 spells between gy and hand. I did draw a kalitas t4 but he had an ultimate price for that, that I saw off a transgress.
r4 bye
a few people on the lower tables dropped
r5 GW tokens
g1 mull to 6, fast beats with advocate and man lands with some removal and ramp to make the advocates relevant
g2 switched over to the more controlling , hand disruption and threat control ended up casting ulamog twice after a tragic arrogance returning with seasons past. And while he was able to get a board presence looping revelations was awesome.
Deck was interesting to play.
The grip of desolation was great when i sb it in, although competing with revelation at the 6cmc for seasons past.
Tamiyos journal never drew all day or sideboarded it out, maybe would have been ok vs the bw control dck of which there were a few.
Feels like the sb needs more enchantment hate, evolutionary leap was around in abundance today
Are people still playing this deck? Looking for suggestions moving forward in this format. Just went 3-1 at gameday with the same build posted earlier in this thread main boarding the 2 odrics. I feel like odric and Hedron crawler aren't amazing for me. lost in the finals to esper control. It's a very hard match when they get stable in the later game. I 2-0d w/b control, mono red, and white humans. Creature based decks aren't a problem. Looking for suggestions as the meta is more defined now.
I played it at games day this weekend. The ramp match up(with creatures as top end, non goggles) is hard if you stumble a little, even with all the exile effects able to deal with the eldrazi. I was unable to close on 2 matches this weekend when any threat or removal would have done it.
There is a list at the toronto GP that is currently 9-0 end of day 1
tried one pick the brain today in place of a main deck trangress, was good. being able to hit den protector, advocate, recruiter etc is really good in my local meta.
Well, this deck actually uses 3 out of 5 of our ramp spells.
Pilgrimage, Hedron Archive, Traverse the Ulvenwald, and never forget Drownyard Temple..that is also a way to ramp up.
True, It's MAIN focus is not ramping, but still the strategy is control/ramp. So...is this a PURE ramp deck? surely not. A pure ramp will have 7 lands by T4 usually. Is this a ramp deck?...YES.
Traverse is not a ramp spell
And drownyard requires another spell to turn it into ramp, so it's good about 50%. Todd had drownyards in his list and more ways to enable and it's hardly ur ramp.
I like to use creatures in my sb where possible with this deck so I dont end up being threat light.
while I do run graft diggers cage, I have cut down to just the 1 and added two scavanging oooze which is good for aggressive m/ups and another option for some of the combo decks like living end, storm , dredge
and I prefer kitchen finks as my go to for burn m/ups, and I have been trying bringing it in against the removal heavy decks like jund
I also run a single ugin to compliment a single all is dust as a catch all
affinity is big in my meta so I run 2 shatter storms an ancient grudge and a natural state. I would like to try and change a storm for a fracturing gust but I think that the mana is just to greedy unlike the bant version.
crumble to dust and warping wail are good at least for scapeshift
anyone tried running engineered explosives main?
I play in a meta that always has some amount of affinity, and that m/up is very bad trying to find something for my flex slots that arnt also bad in other m/up. Seems it could also help vs jund which I have also been finding a bit tough
I have found finks to be really good. I play 3 instead of timely.
pretty bad tournament today
3 matches all very close losses if the early rounds
4 Reality Smasher
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Transgress the Mind
3 Ruinous Path
2 Grasp of Darkness
4 Languish
2 Duress
1 Grip of Desolation
1 Endbringer
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3 Hedron Archive
1 Dark Petition
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Mirrorpool
2 Blighted Fen
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Llanowar Wastes
8 Swamp
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
2 Warping Wail
2 Virulent Plague
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Pick the Brain
1 Tamiyo's Journal
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Grip of Desolation
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ever After
2 Duress
1 To the Slaughter
after today added the 2 contortion, 1 petition and 4th languish to the main board
The mage rings were OK, probably better than the shrines which is what i swapped them for last minute
The mirror pools were ok, they did make my oponents have to play around them a couple of times.
Endbringer was great got it working a couple of times, 6 cmc is a lot though so 1 seems right
I still like the ruins adding value to TKS and smasher but I could see adding a couple of shrines and add the ulamog to the main deck
I wish there was another 4cc hard to deal or value with creature that was B or colourless, kalitas is great in some m/up but terrible vs the displacer,reflector mage and creature light decks. I might try and fit 4 matter reshapers back in
I think I will be running this tomorrow
I expect to see gw tokens, bant humans, displacer rites , bw control, and likly a couple of the rogue decks from last weeks gps
4 Reality Smasher
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Endbringer
4 Transgress the Mind
3 Ruinous Path
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Warping Wail
3 Languish
3 Duress
1 To the Slaughter
1 Grip of Desolation
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3 Hedron Archive
2 Mirrorpool
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Blighted Fen
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Llanowar Wastes
8 Swamp
2 Ruins of Oran-Rief
1 Warping Wail
2 Virulent Plague
2 Infinite Obliteration
1 Pick the Brain
1 Languish
1 Tamiyo's Journal
1 Orbs of Warding
1 Dark Petition
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Grip of Desolation
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ever After
Languish, Transgress ,path ,Duress, to the slaughter , basically go full control
Being get able to attack plainswalkers both in hand and on board is the key.
It seems like a creature deck but it's a deck based on spells.
Ruins has been awesome.
In Conleysome version even just pumping hanger back tokens is relevant. But mostly adding counters to TKS to put it out of chandra languish and grasp range also turning smasher into an even better threat.
Maybe in my proposed version it wont be as good
Beat RG ramp, jund and GW tokens. All these games the hand disruption just ruined thier game plan and the ruins adding counters to TKS and smasher made them to hard to deal with.
lost to bant coco and a lower to the ground bant coco deck based around thalia's lieutenant. was just 2 slow and early interaction wasn't enough as they always had reflector mage to clear path or could just walk right past the bearers. I didnt draw a matter reshaper or end bringer all day.
4 Reality Smasher
4 Ruins of Oran-Rief
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Wasteland Strangler
2 Ruinous Path
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Warping Wail
4 Bearer of Silence
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Blighted Fen
3 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
8 Swamp
1 To the slaughter
3 Languish
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Warping Wail
3 Duress
1 Grip of Desolation
2 Virulent Plague
1 Infinite Obliteration
1 Ruinous Path
1 Pick the Brain
I never once had no cards in hand so the sea gates were bad, and while they wouldnt have helped much in my loses I think mirror pool would have been much better.
one of my loses was directly missing land drops turns 4 to 6 on the draw , this is a mana hungry deck so upping to 25 lands and see if I dont get to slowed down with evolving wilds to help enable dilerium.
I was side boarding out hangerbacks and bearers a lot to bring in more sweepers or hand interaction, I think i will change to something more like
4 Reality Smasher
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Transgress the Mind
3 Ruinous Path
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Warping Wail
3 Languish
3 Duress
1 Spatial Contortion
1 To the Slaughter
1 Endbringer
1 Grip of Desolation
2 Blighted Fen
3 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
6 Swamp
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Mirrorpool
maybe I should be running 4 hedron crawlers or at least the 4 full warping wails to try and push out a TKS or smasher a turn earlier
I have been running sam blacks list, 3 cards different in 75
I have been siding in
transgress x1, duress x1, grip of desolation x1(I have found this to be much better option than clip wings), languish x2, to the slaughter x1, virulent plague x1
siding out grasp of darkness x1, tireless tracker x4, kalitas x1, ob nixilis x1
I have found even game 1 it usually goes 1 way or the other.
We get an on curve draw with some interaction and eventually win after taking some early damage or they get an on curve draw into a gideon that we have no answer for and lose badly. Also goes badly if you miss land drops in the early turns.
I was going to postthis in the RG ramp thread but I guess it fits more in here as the natural evolution
I played Sam Blacks list today at a 28 man PPTQ, a high quality field with a couple who have been on PT or to super sunday series.
I made the following changes from Sams list
-1 clip wings from the sb for + grip of desolation, slightly more versatile westvale abbey and avacyn hate. Ramp has been popular here and being able to hit sanctums and ulamogs relevant.
-1 tireless tracker for + Tamiyo's journal, I expected the meta to be more control than there was and was trailing some creatureless card advantage, in the end I didnt either draw it all day or sideboarded it out as it wasnt what I was looking for g2/3
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Den Protector
4 Sylvan Advocate
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Ulvenwald Hydra
1 World Breaker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Ruinous Path
1 Languish
3 Dark Petition
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
1 Nissa's Renewal
1 Seasons Past
1 The Great Aurora
1 Ultimate Price
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 tamiyo's journal
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Evolving Wilds
5 Swamp
8 Forest
1 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
3 Languish
1 Seasons Past
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 To the Slaughter
2 Dead Weight
1 Pick the Brain
1 Virulent Plague
2 Infinite Obliteration
1 Grip of desolation
R1 vs RG ramp(no dorks)
g1 I get a fast start with advocate into nissa into nissa's pilgrimage, while he just ramps then he misplays badly dropping a chandra and then using it to attack me. I play my 6th land activate quagmire and swing back for lethal
g2 sideboard out stuff that dies easily , decimate his hand with duress into transgress into 2 infinite obliteration, killing the only creature he plays a void winnower then game stalls while I have a lethal board with a huge hydra(imisplayed here not grabbing my mirrorpool to copy the hydra) he plays a large hangerback so we both play land go for about 7 turns as we both just draw lands till I draw grip of desolation for the win.
r2 vs GW tokens
g1 he gets a fast start with double advocate plays around languish with a double dromaka's command on 1 to put it out of languish range (I had in hand). I do eventually manage to stabilize with revelation but still at a low life total. I was treading water for a few turns , then went for a great aurora off a tutor to clear up his board with a gideon and a nissa in play- he drew 12, I drew 18 but only 6 lands 2 of which were evolving wilds died to an eot secure the wastes.
g2 sideboarded out some high end and non impactful stuff for sweepers and plague, I should have added more hand control. we both mull to 6, I get a reasonable start , have answers for his threats he dies to advocates and man lands
g3 only 10 left in the round. I keep a 2 lander with some cheap interaction but miss land drops in turns 4 to 6, he gets a reasonable start and i die to a gideon in turns
r3 BG rites
g1 game went to mid game. I misplayed when I didn't tutor for a kalitus then he eot companies into a cutthroat and husk to kill me.
g2 opening hand had 1 world breaker 1 explosive 1 pilgrimage 1 removal spell and 3 lands, when i died I had 14 lands and a total of 6 spells between gy and hand. I did draw a kalitas t4 but he had an ultimate price for that, that I saw off a transgress.
r4 bye
a few people on the lower tables dropped
r5 GW tokens
g1 mull to 6, fast beats with advocate and man lands with some removal and ramp to make the advocates relevant
g2 switched over to the more controlling , hand disruption and threat control ended up casting ulamog twice after a tragic arrogance returning with seasons past. And while he was able to get a board presence looping revelations was awesome.
Deck was interesting to play.
The grip of desolation was great when i sb it in, although competing with revelation at the 6cmc for seasons past.
Tamiyos journal never drew all day or sideboarded it out, maybe would have been ok vs the bw control dck of which there were a few.
Feels like the sb needs more enchantment hate, evolutionary leap was around in abundance today
Anyone managed to put in some reps with Sam Blacks GP list?
I tried to build something like this but couldn't get it to run consistently enough.
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Den Protector
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Ulvenwald Hydra
1 World Breaker
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
1 Ruinous Path
1 Languish
3 Dark Petition
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
1 Nissa's Renewal
1 Seasons Past
1 The Great Aurora
1 Ultimate Price
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Mirrorpool
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Evolving Wilds
5 Swamp
8 Forest
1 Duress
1 Transgress the Mind
3 Languish
1 Seasons Past
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 To the Slaughter
I played it at games day this weekend. The ramp match up(with creatures as top end, non goggles) is hard if you stumble a little, even with all the exile effects able to deal with the eldrazi. I was unable to close on 2 matches this weekend when any threat or removal would have done it.
There is a list at the toronto GP that is currently 9-0 end of day 1
tried one pick the brain today in place of a main deck trangress, was good. being able to hit den protector, advocate, recruiter etc is really good in my local meta.
Traverse is not a ramp spell
And drownyard requires another spell to turn it into ramp, so it's good about 50%. Todd had drownyards in his list and more ways to enable and it's hardly ur ramp.