IMO tithe > gift > land tax > kor cartogrpher > knight of the wo.
Tithe gets duals and can fetch a land even if you are on the play. Gift fixes mana the moment you cast it. Land tax is good but you have to wait until next turn so might risk missing a land drop or not meeting the condition. Knight is bad imo because you need ww to cast which means if you have ww already then you can cast any w spells you need. So it doesnt fix. I'd rather play kor and get from w to ww if needed.
Ya the elephant in the room is they <snip> up c13. In one supplemental set they warped the meta more than 20 years of regular releases and the irony is it was released specifically to promote the format
I don't know if this was an attempt at censor evasion or just a horrible typo (if it's the former please don't do it) - cryo
The problem with prosh is that he is so hard to interact with and enables so many 2 card combos/powerplays in the colors with tutor support. Food chain, purphoros, dictate of erebos, fecundity... Or he can just 1-shot you. If you counter him, he still gets kobalds and more next time. When you look at threads for "how to combat prosh?" The answers is usually "kill the mana base" or "combo faster than him", both of which are fine but unappealing to me. I play pithing needle just for proshh but that barely slows him down. Just tutor for an answer. I know edh isn't fair or balanced but this is a general with 2 card combos...
I'm an EDH player with my first Friday off in a while tomorrow. Does anyone have an open spot in a game tomorrow? I'm in Santa Rosa and would be down to drive to Marin, SF, Napa, or Berkeley. Santa Clara or San Jose are probably too far. I have decks at most power levels but prefer to play in the tier below cut-throat but above casual.
1) discuss the power level of the game before hand and tell the table u r not using an ultra cut-throat commander, so maybe they could switch for a more interactive game
2) play ur own cut-throat commander
3) team up with players 3 and 4 to repeatedly send them back to command zone i.e. U swords them, player 3 counters him next time, player 4 chaos warps him after that
I'd recommend ditching the roaches for the reasons you stated. Even if you replaced them with a draw spell you'd be better off - you can then draw into one of your other small creatures or creature generators. You could also replace Ink-Eyes and Withered wretch with Nezumi Graverobber that does both. I did end up taking out Nykthos from my version - it was ok but I've found that when I get enough swamps, I usually win. I think the benefit of Nykthos doesn't outweigh the risk of getting no swamps in my opening hand which can occasionally happen. I'm still running a Grave Pact to deal with hexproof/indestructible and have also been playing around with Death Cloud. I like to get Liliana of the Dark Realms out then Death Cloud for everything - opponents are crushed and you will hit your land drops and then go ultimate with her. One other thought is that is you are using sudden Spoiling you might consider Massacre Wurm. It is pretty good on its own and with Horobi blowing up creatures it can end a game quickly. I'm also in love with Aphotic Wisps is good early as a cycler, good late with Horobi or to push an attacker through, and can be easily recurred with Yawgmoth's Will for card advantage.
Ya, I hear you on how Unspeakable Symbol can be painful. I'm running a Pestilence package (both Pestilence and Withering Wisps) as an alternate win-con against Pillow-Fort decks. This means I need a lot more life gain so I'm runningCrypt Ghast, Thrull Parasite (synergy w/ horobi too), Sangromancer (feed off Horobi's kills), Whip of Erebos (double duty with reanimate), Gray Merchant of Asphodel, [Exquisite Blood] (breaks symmetry with Pestilence), and Venser's Journal (don't really like this one but thought I'd give it a try) along with Koko and Exsanguinate. With all that life gain I don't mind drawing Symbol and having it as instant speed removal or pump on my own creatures.
A couple last thoughts: I like Mimic Vat over something like Coffin Queen; you can catch Horobi in the Vat and use him only when you need him on your turn once you have your target lands active. Also, Endless Whispers is total fun in my build - Horobi always stays in play so you can just clear the field with your lands or cauldron and swing with your beaters. It's redundant for you because you have all that reanimation but I love playing it.
Great build dnLL! If you build this deck recently then I was probably building mine at exactly the same time. I made many of the same choices that you did, especially the Horobi targetting spells.
I think the approach you took is extremely strong and will probably win you a lot of games as is. I think the creature based decks that are going to give Horobi even the slightest problem would be indestructible or Hexproof type decks like Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Uril, the Miststalker, Thrun, the Last Troll, etc. Heavy artifact decks might be a problem too. For this reason I found a slot for Grave Pact. To help with the artifact decks, I have both Kill Switch and Karn, Silver Golem to animate their artifacts and kill them with Horobi. I also think Unspeakable Symbol is a powerhouse and I would replace Oasis with it.
How do you see this deck playing out against control type decks? That's my only concern for my Horobi. I have the same four little reanimators (BS Champion, Bloodghast, NetherTraitor, reass Skeleton). It's kind of a crime to not see skullclamp in there with them. I know you can't equip them with Horobi on the field but just equip them before he comes out...
Got some EDH in last night at FNM. I was playing my janky Vorel build 1 vs. 1 against heartless hidetsugu and achieved one of my Magic bucket list plays. No early threats so I went turn 3 chromatic lantern, turn 4 cultivate turn 5 Greater Good. Next turn dropped Primal Vigor then at end of of opponent's turn I Worldly Tutor for Reef Worm. My heart was pumping as it resolved and I busted out the fish / whale / kraken tokens even though we were going straight to Kraken. 1 Reef Worm went to 2 Fish went to 4 Whales. As the Whales started to get sacced I was netting positive cards from Greater Good and drew into Doubling Season so I cast it for kicks and continued to feed the poor whales to the krakens. By the time it was all done I had some absurd number of Krakens and had drawn like 40 cards. I pass the turn and my opponent cast Blasphemous Act !!
My sweet, sweet Kraken army drowns at the bottom of the sea but I sacced a few on the way out and since it was on his turn I don't have to discard. I think he played his general and had a couple tokens on the field from a creature I had pongified. So I got to untap with Doubling Season and Primal Vigor still online and I need a new threat so I drop Genesis Hydra for x=8 (which turned into 32 +1/+1's) and in the 8 cards I reveal I see Hornet Queen so she goes straight onto the board with her 16 children.
I passed and I think my opponent cast a tapped disk or something so I got to untap again. I then got stupid and greedy, casting Domineering Will to try to steal his board for an epic free swing but he Fork'd it his resolved first, targeting the Genesis Hydra, Hornet Queen, and 1 hornet token. I just targeted the same creatures when mine resolved but now they were summoning sick so I cast Opposition from my hand, used the summoning sick creatures to tap down his blockers and swung with the remaining hornet tokens for victory.
I'm not a combo player so actually getting one felt pretty awesome.I I took a picture of my final board for the history books.
I apologize in advance if this is the wrong location for this message. I'm dipping my toe back into MTG after a long, long absence and I'm interested in finding a playgroup in the Bay Area for EDH/Commander. I live in Santa Rosa but might be willing to drive a ways (probably not all the way to SF). If anyone knows any casual Bay Area/Santa Rosa non-competitive/semi competitive playgroups please PM me or direct me to a better spot to post this message. Cheers, thank you in advance to Bay Area MTG players!
Tithe gets duals and can fetch a land even if you are on the play. Gift fixes mana the moment you cast it. Land tax is good but you have to wait until next turn so might risk missing a land drop or not meeting the condition. Knight is bad imo because you need ww to cast which means if you have ww already then you can cast any w spells you need. So it doesnt fix. I'd rather play kor and get from w to ww if needed.
I don't know if this was an attempt at censor evasion or just a horrible typo (if it's the former please don't do it) - cryo
1) discuss the power level of the game before hand and tell the table u r not using an ultra cut-throat commander, so maybe they could switch for a more interactive game
2) play ur own cut-throat commander
3) team up with players 3 and 4 to repeatedly send them back to command zone i.e. U swords them, player 3 counters him next time, player 4 chaos warps him after that
A couple last thoughts: I like Mimic Vat over something like Coffin Queen; you can catch Horobi in the Vat and use him only when you need him on your turn once you have your target lands active. Also, Endless Whispers is total fun in my build - Horobi always stays in play so you can just clear the field with your lands or cauldron and swing with your beaters. It's redundant for you because you have all that reanimation but I love playing it.
EDIT - You do have mimic vat, I missed that
I think the approach you took is extremely strong and will probably win you a lot of games as is. I think the creature based decks that are going to give Horobi even the slightest problem would be indestructible or Hexproof type decks like Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Uril, the Miststalker, Thrun, the Last Troll, etc. Heavy artifact decks might be a problem too. For this reason I found a slot for Grave Pact. To help with the artifact decks, I have both Kill Switch and Karn, Silver Golem to animate their artifacts and kill them with Horobi. I also think Unspeakable Symbol is a powerhouse and I would replace Oasis with it.
How do you see this deck playing out against control type decks? That's my only concern for my Horobi. I have the same four little reanimators (BS Champion, Bloodghast, NetherTraitor, reass Skeleton). It's kind of a crime to not see skullclamp in there with them. I know you can't equip them with Horobi on the field but just equip them before he comes out...
Anyways, great build!
My sweet, sweet Kraken army drowns at the bottom of the sea but I sacced a few on the way out and since it was on his turn I don't have to discard. I think he played his general and had a couple tokens on the field from a creature I had pongified. So I got to untap with Doubling Season and Primal Vigor still online and I need a new threat so I drop Genesis Hydra for x=8 (which turned into 32 +1/+1's) and in the 8 cards I reveal I see Hornet Queen so she goes straight onto the board with her 16 children.
I passed and I think my opponent cast a tapped disk or something so I got to untap again. I then got stupid and greedy, casting Domineering Will to try to steal his board for an epic free swing but he Fork'd it his resolved first, targeting the Genesis Hydra, Hornet Queen, and 1 hornet token. I just targeted the same creatures when mine resolved but now they were summoning sick so I cast Opposition from my hand, used the summoning sick creatures to tap down his blockers and swung with the remaining hornet tokens for victory.
I'm not a combo player so actually getting one felt pretty awesome.I I took a picture of my final board for the history books.