ISBpathfinder, Oathsworn Vampire and Vampire Lacerator seem very lackluster? Could the deck benefit from playing several of the two drop lifegain vampires?
Thanks for the insight into the strategy behind your version of Maelstrom. If I ever fully embraced the combo potential of the deck, there is probably not a model better than yours.
I was just looking at the lists yesterday and had to do a double take. Someone not familiar with your lists would absolutely think you would be the one playing Blood Moon.
I guess from your statements that while you do not see Hermit Druid you do see Blood Moon and Back to Basics. Is that why you play so many basic lands?
What decks are you seeing that give Maelstrom problems? What have you added to combat them?
Mr Coupon, I asked if you played Blood Moon and you stated, "I've experimented with getting hosed by Blood Moon." I am sure you realize your ramp and mana base are much more suited to playing Blood Moon than Ambivalent Duck's.
Duck is not playing the five mana dork's that you are. He plays 14 basics to your 17. He has a few more means to grab basics such as Sakura-Tribe Elder and Nature's Lore. The issue is if Blood Moon is not in hand early he probably grabs duals with Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim and Hunting Wilds. Surprisingly, you are the one playing Lotus Cobra.
Is he making a mistake or are you or am I missing something?
Mrbusta, do you have a deck list? Thanks for contributing to this thread.
What form of interaction are you playing besides the cards you listed? Do you play any spot removal such as Beast Within or Karn Liberated? Those are popular and to a lesser extent Wipe Away, which was Ambivalent Duck's answer to Hermit Druid.
I think both of you have made excellent points. Ambivalent Duck was trying to win in a ultra competitive environment. I never thought Maelstrom belong at the table with top end decks. His version has more interaction than most Wanderer decks. Wipe Away and Blood Moon were added to combat Hermit Druid. Even with that it is hard to see him not being dependent on other players slowing down the ultra fast decks. You guys are getting me to see where I can make changes.
We have discussed Karn Liberated and thought more draw would be a good switch. What about Mystic Confluence, which provides interaction and draw?
Stolen Identity is another card that Ambivalent Duck liked that never seems to do much for me. Mr Coupon, you are playing Treachery in this spot. Have you tested Stolen Identity and how has Treachery performed?
Thanks again for your response. Your Intuition pile is correct. Extra turn spells, and Consecrated Sphinx mid game are possibilities if one of the three (Regrowth, Eternal Witness, Foodchain) are already in the graveyard or exiled. Late game I have put Tooth and Nail in the pile.
Scourge of the Throne may be the cut for Sphinx of Uthuun. Scourge has been good as I am also playing nine fetches, Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Sylvian Library and I usually get hit early for damage. The extra combat effect happens around 70% of the time. Still, neither you nor Ambivalent Duck have ever played it. Duck shaped a lot of my thinking on Wanderer. It is hard for me to cut Brutalizer Exarch as it has been in his list for a while.
Karn Liberated is another possibility. I know every good Maelstrom lists has him. Still, there never seems to be two good targets if he survives till your next turn. Brutalizer Exarch gives me removal or the option of grabbing a beater or Glen Elendra Archmage if Brutalizer is the first cascade to resolve.
One change I am looking at is adding several of the two mana generating dorks you are playing. Duck played none preferring the land based ramp. I could cut Sakura-Tribe Elder, Nature's Lore and Worn Powerstone. The mass bounce effects and Wildfire give me pause. Board sweeps have not been a problem for me with this deck. I guess it is a question of risk/reward as you are a turn faster to cast Wanderer with your dorks over what I am running excluding Worn Powerstone. I assume the upside of creature based ramp is you have plenty of fuel for Food Chain.
I agree 100% with everything you have said. My version of Maelstrom is intentionally powered down and it still wins over 50% of the time. Cutting the aggro for draw would push this deck's power too high. I have two competitive decks that I very rarely get to play. More than minor upgrades and Maelstrom will be collecting dust.
I could cut Beast Within for Crush of Tentacles. Beast Within is better against stax effects but Crush of Tentacles is the better cascade. I assume that would be an easy switch for you. How do you handle stax effects?
The other mass bounce/board wipes I am playing are Devastation Tide, Cyclonic Rift and Wildfire. I understand your reservations with Wildfire. Cyclonic Rift's upside overcomes the fact that can be a bad cascade.
Ambivalent Duck got me playing Brutalizer Exarch. It has been useful. Is there a second card from the above list that I should be playing in Brutalizer Exarch's place?
I wanted another way to win outside of combo understanding that the power level of the deck would suffer. Malingus, Pathbreaker Ibex, Scourge of the Throne and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth were the aggro additions. You have replaced these cards with draw which cards which is optimal.
I could not cut down to 34 lands and am at 36. I had Rugged Prairie in the deck but am thinking of dropping it for Reliquary Tower.
What do you think about lands like Blackcleave Cliffs for this deck?
ISBpathfinder, Oathsworn Vampire and Vampire Lacerator seem very lackluster? Could the deck benefit from playing several of the two drop lifegain vampires?
Have you settled on your changes to the deck?
I am testing Etali, Primal Storm-thoughts?
This is a great list.
I guess from your statements that while you do not see Hermit Druid you do see Blood Moon and Back to Basics. Is that why you play so many basic lands?
What decks are you seeing that give Maelstrom problems? What have you added to combat them?
Duck is not playing the five mana dork's that you are. He plays 14 basics to your 17. He has a few more means to grab basics such as Sakura-Tribe Elder and Nature's Lore. The issue is if Blood Moon is not in hand early he probably grabs duals with Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim and Hunting Wilds. Surprisingly, you are the one playing Lotus Cobra.
Is he making a mistake or are you or am I missing something?
It looks like most everyone is playing Treachery in the place of Stolen Identity.
What form of interaction are you playing besides the cards you listed? Do you play any spot removal such as Beast Within or Karn Liberated? Those are popular and to a lesser extent Wipe Away, which was Ambivalent Duck's answer to Hermit Druid.
We have discussed Karn Liberated and thought more draw would be a good switch. What about Mystic Confluence, which provides interaction and draw?
Mr Coupon, am I correct in that you favor Sphinx of Uthuun over Arcanis the Omnipotent?
Stolen Identity is another card that Ambivalent Duck liked that never seems to do much for me. Mr Coupon, you are playing Treachery in this spot. Have you tested Stolen Identity and how has Treachery performed?
Scourge of the Throne may be the cut for Sphinx of Uthuun. Scourge has been good as I am also playing nine fetches, Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Sylvian Library and I usually get hit early for damage. The extra combat effect happens around 70% of the time. Still, neither you nor Ambivalent Duck have ever played it. Duck shaped a lot of my thinking on Wanderer. It is hard for me to cut Brutalizer Exarch as it has been in his list for a while.
Karn Liberated is another possibility. I know every good Maelstrom lists has him. Still, there never seems to be two good targets if he survives till your next turn. Brutalizer Exarch gives me removal or the option of grabbing a beater or Glen Elendra Archmage if Brutalizer is the first cascade to resolve.
One change I am looking at is adding several of the two mana generating dorks you are playing. Duck played none preferring the land based ramp. I could cut Sakura-Tribe Elder, Nature's Lore and Worn Powerstone. The mass bounce effects and Wildfire give me pause. Board sweeps have not been a problem for me with this deck. I guess it is a question of risk/reward as you are a turn faster to cast Wanderer with your dorks over what I am running excluding Worn Powerstone. I assume the upside of creature based ramp is you have plenty of fuel for Food Chain.
I greatly appreciate your insight. I have been looking at your list as well as Ambivalent Duck's intermittently for over two years. Brutalizer Exarch could be replaced by draw. Which one of Overflowing Insight, Arcanis the Omnipotent or Sphinx of Uthuun would you add?
I could cut Beast Within for Crush of Tentacles. Beast Within is better against stax effects but Crush of Tentacles is the better cascade. I assume that would be an easy switch for you. How do you handle stax effects?
The other mass bounce/board wipes I am playing are Devastation Tide, Cyclonic Rift and Wildfire. I understand your reservations with Wildfire. Cyclonic Rift's upside overcomes the fact that can be a bad cascade.
Intuition is a card I expected you to be playing.
You made a strong argument for Time Stretch. No one in my meta plays Knowledge Exploitation.
Mr Coupon, I am ordering Overflowing Insight tonight as well as Expropriate. Is Time Stretch still in your deck? Would you consider Expropriate a better alternative?
I may cut Scroll Rack for another "bomb". Overflowing Insight, Crush of Tentacles, Sphinx of Uthuun and Arcanis the Omnipotent are all cards you are playing that I am not. I know Ambivalent Duck played Arcanis. What would you pick from these choices?
Ambivalent Duck got me playing Brutalizer Exarch. It has been useful. Is there a second card from the above list that I should be playing in Brutalizer Exarch's place?
Temporal Mastery can not be recurred.
I wanted another way to win outside of combo understanding that the power level of the deck would suffer. Malingus, Pathbreaker Ibex, Scourge of the Throne and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth were the aggro additions. You have replaced these cards with draw which cards which is optimal.