The dude lately just said, IF, for whatever reason, Tron lands weren't around, what would be the next best ramp strategy in modern? He doesn't mention anything about bans whatsoever. Settle down.
@NZB2323 I think you fell victim to RG Ponza, a really sweet deck.
I forget, is there some rule against not discussing spoiled cards on this forum? I seem to recall some people referring to Disallow in a very cheeky manner before Aether Revolt dropped.
Even if I did interpret the quote out of context, I still wish I would have known about that decision before building my modern card pool. Additionally, I think that my point about Counterspell and those other cards in still valid in the sense that Counterspell would actually be a tool to protect against them. I clearly recall playing one game against RG Valakut where at the end of my turn 4, my opponent cast boil, I countered with cryptic, he untapped and cast a second boil. Though I didn't scoop, the game ended right there due to a card that allowed him to triple stone rain me. Yeah it's an anecdote, and there would have been other post board draws that could have worked out, but a more nimble answer couldn't have hurt. I don't mind 8th edition being in the format, I just think we need s stronger counter spell available that is relevant all game long.
Guess there's nothing to do but sit back and wait til spoilers for Hour start popping up, but after reading the last two pages of this thread, I'm not very optimistic anymore. I can't believe they were worried about the impact of Disallow in modern...that's just disappointing.
Question:What do you say to the people who feel that their favorite parts of magic (for example, heavy control elements and discard) are being pushed out of the game? Is magic just not for them anymore?
Maro: We made a choice many, many years ago to power down strategies that kept the opponent from being able to play. Those elements still exist, with individual cards that see tournament play from time to time, but we’ve kept the concentrated decks from being powerful.
Note, I’m not saying that elements of those strategies are unplayable. The decks that do nothing but that thing are purposely unplayable. For example, there have been playable counterspells. We just haven’t allowed Draw, Go decks that do nothing but counter spells to be good.
If you’ve been playing long enough to remember decks that were centered solely on those strategies, that means you been playing Magic for about fifteen years without them.
I don’t understand how you can be playing for so many years if the think that makes Magic special to you, that you don’t want to play without, the thing that the game just isn’t fun if it’s missing hasn’t existed for fifteen years.
Wow, I wish that quote could have been around years ago, it should be pasted in red letters at the top of every modern control primer on this forum as a disclaimer.
So by this logic, I can't unconditionally counter a spell for 2 mana because it's "not fun", but someone virtually ending the game with a Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, or Boil is perfectly ok. Glad to have that cleared up.
I don't want any of those cards banned for the record.
@cmr, that is some of the most condescending garbage I have read on here, which says a lot. You start with your assumption that the only players who disagree with you are control haters who just want to ***** on your good time. Then you define your good time as a control deck that is less fun to sit across than lantern and miracles combined.
Control puts up numbers, regardless of whether it's the kind of control you want. Skred regularly top 8s large tournaments, but you would complain because it's not your exact flavor of control. Ok, UW bounces between tier 1 & 2, with variations on how aggressive it's built. Oh, but it doesn't line up with your exact wish list of an unstoppable format topping juggernaut that has most games go to time? Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for everyone else, WOTC found your vision of a great format to be an unfun one, most people don't want to sit across from someone for an hour because they have all the answers for everything and all the ways to find their answers.
WotC has shown it doesn't want 2 players staring at each other until time, you can sleeve up control as long as you have a reasonable way to close out the game. Lancaster mage, Celestial, V. Clique are all threats that can close out games. And, no one is saying you can't sleeve up some single serra avenger deck, but why is WotC obligated to ensure your pet deck is tier 1? Why shouldn't goblin players feel entitled to a tier 1 goblin deck? What about telling time? Mono blue, takes forever to close the game out, and has a sense of inevitable after a certain point.
Again, you don't just want your draw go to be playable (which it is), you want it to be strong enough that you dominate the table no matter what you come up against, but that isn't the way modern works. All decks have good and bad match ups. If they didn't, they would need to be banned, otherwise they would dominate the metashare ala miracles.
Woah there feller, these are some mighty fine assumptions there, I suggest you read my condescending garbage a second time. But yes, that is likely far too provincial a generalization and a poor way to open my argument. I never said I wanted a dominant deck, it doesn't even have to be tier 1, all I called for are tools more on par with what the best colors have been getting, that's it, that's all. I would like to see the archetype become SLIGHTLY more competitive based on its card pool, and not vagaries of the shifting meta. I never argued it wasn't playable, and I do obviously play the cards you mentioned that close out the game, I wasn't being literal about the single win con comment, but I suppose I well have to be far more explicit in the future. But yes, I have no interest in playing Skred, you got me. Ironically, I feel as though your suggestion to turn to a mono red deck in order to recieve a more satisfying experience of playing control in modern only strengthens my argument.
@CMR if you like Weissman decks so much, my advice is don't play Modern. Ours is a format defined by quick kills and consistency-by-redundancy, both of which spell doom for the archetype. Jace and SFM do not solve these issues; they just make Weissman even better against midrange (you should be winning these matchups regardless).
What you're looking for is Force of Will, Fact or Fiction, and Counterspell. But Magic's design has moved so far away from single-Morphling-backed-by-broken-draw-and-permission that you can pretty much bank on the "tools" Weissman needs to succeed in Modern never, ever going through Standard, barring another Treasure Cruise-esque slip-up (which is likely to affect format diversity enough for Wizards to act now as they did then).
MTGS has a custom card forum btw. This thread is prone enough to derails as it stands.
Unfortunately I am heavily invested in modern at the moment, but I am watching how legacy changes with the top ban. I agree with you about Jace, but again, I don't think that is still a reason he should be banned in my opinion, especially as a card that was never modern legal. I do recognize that magic will likely never again see a Weissman style deck, and I should have better described that it is the concept, not the exact deck, that I would like to see a little more support for. Also, your tempo article was well articulated and reminiscent of some of the articles I have saved in my collection from early magic theory. Keep up the good work, your devotion to the archetype is admirable.
It seems to me that the entire community is divided along several lines. Those that feel as though Mindstatic should be the most powerful counterspell available to control players and who never leave home for an FNM without their play sets of Thrun, control players who want to advocate for their style of play, and the in betweeners who play whatever other decks they enjoy but agree that control as an archetype is on the ropes. So for those of you in the first camp or who buy into the narrative that it is basically a UW players paradise out there right now, allow me to be very clear. I'm not talking about "decks that play blue", I'm talking about a pile that is nearly 33% lands, instants and sorceries, and a single Serra Angel that I intend to beat my opponent to death with when I am good and ready.
If that's not your cup of tea, fine, it doesn't have to be, but I don't feel as though anyone has the right to use the "that's not fun" line when it comes to magic. Every time I sit across from an opponent who goes turn 1 Tron land into expedition map, a small part of me never wants to play this game again, but some people get off on playing 7 mana planeswalkers on turn 3. I respect their right to play the deck they want to play and don't want to see their archetype banned or killed off slowly by drying up the new printings that support their deck to keep it relevant in the modern meta. And THAT is my point. I don't want to split hairs over semantics about what is and is not blue, that wasn't really what I intended to address in my above post, it was merely the impetus that drove me to jump in here.
At the risk of being the entitled, salty nerd with a basic island fetish, I don't really think it is up for debate that control needs better cards, whether they are reprints, prints, or unbans, I don't care. Heck, blue's salvation can even be a permanent at this point (I'm a purist, sue me), I just want something that addresses what I think most people who play control in modern would agree are the decks biggest weaknesses; 1.) surviving the first 4 turns, 2.) drawing the right half of the deck (consistency) 3.) closing out the game. I notice that the people who did respond to my above comment didn't touch the second half of it pertaining to blue and white's inadequacies compared to the rest of the format. I would love to see blue receive an instant that is on par with Abrupt Decay or Collective Brutality, or Collected Company. Is that asking for too much? Would Fact or Fiction destroy modern as we know it? Again, I still don't think that even Jace would be too much at this point. I would even settle for another decent modal spell, something like this;
Lawkeeper's Charm
1WU
Instant
Counter target spell with CMC 4 or greater, or
Put target creature on top of it's owners library, or
gain 6 life.
If I didn't have other things I needed to get to tonight, I would go through and make some lists of cards that have entered the modern card pool since Return to Ravnica so we could compare what each archetype received by color. I predict that there would be a large disparity against reactive blue/white control elements relative to the rest of the field. Censor and As Foretold don't look like they are going to cut it, sorry. But if they do, I will gladly eat my words, as I would rather see control as an archetype get some love than to argue for the sake of trying to be "right."
For those of you who believe that UW is doing great though, again, it is just because of how those decks line up with the top of the field in the meta. Two months ago, no one had any incentive to sleeve up crypic commands. What changed? It wasn't the printing of control oriented bombs in Kaladesh and Aether Revolt*, I'll tell you that right there.
In closing, I hope that I don't just come across as a whiner. But cut me some slack, its not like I'm complaining that my 5 color bird combo deck isn't viable or anything, this is an archetype that has been around since the inception of the game that is slowly being bled out of options. Though I don't agree with all of his points, one of the things that cfusionpm has mentioned in the past is how long are we expected to "wait and see" for something to happen? My eyes are on Hour of Devastation, as I believe that is when Wizard's claimed was the earliest they could take corrective action on the whole creature/threat creep issue. If that set fails to deliver, I wont throw a tantrum and threaten to sell my collection, but I will certainly change the way I consume MTG products moving forward. If the best argument people can make at this point for Jace and Stoneforge for remaining on the banlist is because they "will mix things up a lot" or "it would be foolish to threaten this wonderful DiveRsitY!1!" that doesn't cut it in my book. Either way, sorry for the rant, it was kind of all over the place and I forgot some of the additional points I wanted to make.
TLDR: blue and white are still lagging behind in power level regardless of what the meta would suggest. Unban Jace and Mystic.
*Fatal Push is sweet, and a step in the right direction yes, but I think it is only the beginning of tilting the answers vs threats pendulum back in the correct direction.
Since then, couple of things changed. W still sucks(that didn't change all that much), but U has finally two good represenations in U/W Control and in Grixis Death's Shadow(it's still a 4 Snapcaster Mage deck).
Thus, I could say that the colour diversity is a lot better regarding the U colour.
Is a deck that plays Serum Visions, Thoughtscour, Snapcaster, and Stubborn Denial really considered a "blue" deck at this point? I feel like burn may as well be considered just as much a green or white deck if that is the case. In fact, how can anyone say that white is under represented then due to the support that Path to Exile lends to the decks that splash it?
Hyperbole aside, I still don't believe that anything has truly changed for blue and white, and as soon as the meta shifts again, UW control will likely decline in popularity once more. The current "success" of the deck is largely contingent on the current modern environment as far as I can tell. Neither color has recieved an actual increase in power level, but rather it seems what they offer just so happens to line up well with what the biggest other decks are doing at the moment. All the issues to do with the strength of white and blue still exist relative to what the rest of the color pie is doing.
So what is a 3/1 flying body worth to you guys? If we remove it from a card, how does this sound?
Thoughtwrinkle
U
Sorcery
look at target player's hand. You may choose a nonland card from it. If you do, that player reveals the chosen card, puts it on the bottom of his or her library, then draws a card.
Busted? Unplayable? Goes right into grixis shadow?
Efficient beaters are not in blue's section of the colour pie, I don't know what to tell you if you expect blue Tarmogoyf. That's in green's section of the colour pie, and they didn't even intend green to have such a powerful/efficient two drop.
I think you would benefit from realigning your expectations for how WotC prints cards. The colour pie is a thing (even if mangled at times).
Yeah, let’s talk about the color pie. So what is blue’s identity then in modern? As far as I can tell, it’s a few cantrips, some average card draw/selection spells, counterspells that are either good early game or late game, so you better hope draw the right ones at the right time (while leaning heavily on another color), and Snapcaster Mage.
The printing of Censor was the third strike for me. Missing out on Prohibit in BFZ, a card that would have been perfect for modern and not tag the fatties that see play in standard (as far as I know), was upsetting. Then, the lack of any revolt enabled counter was an egregious omission in my opinion. Finally, the unplayable Censor taking the place of Miscalculation is simply an affront at this point. So if I take your advice and “realign my expectations”, what should I expect exactly? Limited playable counterspells and sphinxes for as long as I want to continue playing blue in magic? Maybe I’m entitled, it’s possible, but I just look at the things that get printed for other slices of the color pie and I can’t help but feel a little left out.
You mentioned that the color pie was “mangled at times”, and it seems to be a growing trend in certain directions. Blue is essentially limited to the functions mentioned above in modern (with the notable exception going to merfolk), while another color, that shall remain nameless, has the most efficient/resilient creatures, has a 3 mana vindicate with an often irrelevant downside, increasing amounts of graveyard recursion, access to strong card draw/selection options that are justified by them being centered around creatures or lands, a spell that can cheat 6 mana worth of creatures onto the battlefield at instant speed for 4 mana, modern playable tutor capabilities, the ability to accelerate mana development, effects that grow its creatures both permanently and temporarily, graveyard hate, and has a growing repertoire of creatures with spells simply attached to them, or with repeatable abilities.
Just to be clear, I don’t want mono blue tyranny, just a counterspell that I can play on turn two, and turn twelve and feel like it was a worthwhile inclusion in my deck, or a win condition that isn’t just laughed off by my opponent and they continue to mash my face with beaters. Why does one player get to cast a Goyf on turn two and actively begin winning the game while another isn’t even allowed to unconditionally counter a spell for the same amount of mana just to prevent themselves from dying?
Wizards never seemed to have a problem with goyf being $150 or more.
Well they reprinted it in both MM and MM2015, so they know that price and/or supply were a problem.
Plus Goyf wasn't a banned card. It grew up from a 5$ FS rare.
While, for Jace, it's a choice, to put "online" a card they know will jump over 100$ in a short time.
That may be, and correct me if I am wrong, but we have no reason to believe that Wizards bans or unbans cards with any thought to their price correct? And there is nothing stopping them from a future reprint as far as I know. There will always be expensive cards in the modern card pool, and I suspect Jace would likely make as many waves as Ancestral Vision after the month or so of testing wore off.
The undeniable power creep of the color green as it pertains to magic the gathering is a pet subject of mine. It seems like wizards can't help themselves when it comes to the cards it prints for this slice of the pie as of late. Heaven forbid they print a creature that doesn't have a spell attached to it or that puts a counter on something when it is played, dies, gets exiled, or is casually mentioned in conversation in close proximity to a game in progress.
I won't pretend I don't have my own bias, but really, as the above posts mentioned, the growth of the color green far outstrips that of any other I believe, and green is certainly encroaching on the characteristics traditionally offered by other colors. To those that cite deck building restrictions as a handicap, let's be honest, there are plenty of cards in modern's vast pool to pick from that don't really hinder the effectiveness of their overall game plan. And again, who needs instants and sorceries when they conveniently come with 2/2 bodies these days?
Anyway thats the main thing, people are unquestionably thinking of Twin when they say UR, also UR looks amazing on the table, its one of the most beautiful decks in existence, but thats just a personal thing I get hung up on.
I would invite you to take a gander at a foil esper charm sometime my friend =P
But on a more serous note, I will unabashedly display my own bias and echo the sentiment "why Red must be blue's savor?" I realize that yes, Twin is currently the only card on the banned list that would give blue these free wins, but I would rather see reprints or new cards introduced that were strong mono blue options. Not necessarily to give rise to a mono blue deck, but just so that they could go into whatever color combination people choose to run. Disallow was...interesting, but obviously not good enough for modern. I won't bother suggesting a hypothetical bit of counter magic, as plenty of others have already effortlessly posted completely fair, playable spells that they probably cooked up in 35 seconds that would pass through standard with ease while wizards was too busy dropping the ball.
Not sure if this has ever been discussed or not as a way to test cards on the ban list, but what would you guys think of a "parole" approach. With this model, Wizards could designate a card for a parole period so to speak, declaring a temporary, pseudo-unban. During this time, the selected card is legal for modern play, and in an effort to minimize the effects of unbanning and potentially having to reban a card, Wizards could furnish the community with a sanctioned proxy (perhaps a card frame lacking art or something so it is instantly recognizable)that is available for download on their website. These could also be provided on MTGO pretty effortlessly.
Wizards has demonstrated with the Grave Troll experiment that they are willing to take chances, and I think that this could be a way to do so while removing a lot of the financial risk from the process. This whole experiment could be paired with a new parole feedback system to allow them to gather data more effectively as to what the community thinks about the change. If, after the test period has expired, the card is too strong or dominant, it gets put back on the list and no one is out any money for their efforts. If the card proves to be fine then it could be unbanned proper, and no one could say they suddenly got blindsided by the need to acquire the card.
Sure, this doesn't help the issue of cards getting banned in the first place, but what is there to lose by giving a card a "hearing" once a year and see what happens? How would you react to such an offering by Wizards?
It would make a whole lot of sense, but for two basic problems:
First, any card allowed in such a testing environment would potentially skyrocket in price, because mtg speculation. This could perhaps be overcome by having a regular monthly rotation of what card is allowed to be tested, but this doesn't solve the second problem.
WotC fundamentally operates with a policy of knowing more about what's happening than the playerbase. This has always somewhat concerned me, but it comes up a lot: they hate leaks, they don't want sites mining too much metagame data, and they keep most discussion of bans/formats secret. They CANNOT know exactly what the effects of unbanning, say, preordain would be, without giving it a proper amount of testing. The only way to test this is to use the playerbase; WotC will never have another more effective testing resource. WotC doesn't like keeping the playerbase in the know about future actions, and so precludes this option. WotC prefers ambiguity and uncertainty internally rather than the playerbase have concrete data, which I think is frankly somewhat silly when something like MTGO exists.
Of all the things WotC does, this one I hate, because it is a remarkably outdated practice overall. The overwhelming opaqueness of their game management is just baffling when, yes, they could easily have modern leagues where cards x-y-z are temporarily unbanned for data collection purposes. Oh well.
While I agree with most of your points regarding wizards transparency, I don't see how a price increase based on a pseudo-unban would be worse or on par with that of an actual, surprise unban. At the very least, every player would know that there is a chance this card may not come off the list to begin with, so they can all act accordingly. Again, the feedback system I mentioned could help to assuage this to a point, maybe have a dynamic "approval rating" on the website.
Yes, I realize that this flies in the face of everything Wizards has done up until this point in terms of sharing information, but I know I am not alone in wanting more communication from this company. This was more just a thought experiment at what the community would view as an acceptable "olive branch" in terms of letting us in a little bit so that we can actualy make choices instead of throwing up our hands and posting about how if X, Y, or Z happens, we will sell our entire collection.
That being said, I agree with the sentiment of whoever posted something to the effect of "if you want to play with a card on the ban list, buy it now." Dig the well long before you get thirsty and all that. Even if the card never come off, it's price will likely hover around its banned value anyway.
@NZB2323 I think you fell victim to RG Ponza, a really sweet deck.
Guess there's nothing to do but sit back and wait til spoilers for Hour start popping up, but after reading the last two pages of this thread, I'm not very optimistic anymore. I can't believe they were worried about the impact of Disallow in modern...that's just disappointing.
Maro: We made a choice many, many years ago to power down strategies that kept the opponent from being able to play. Those elements still exist, with individual cards that see tournament play from time to time, but we’ve kept the concentrated decks from being powerful.
Note, I’m not saying that elements of those strategies are unplayable. The decks that do nothing but that thing are purposely unplayable. For example, there have been playable counterspells. We just haven’t allowed Draw, Go decks that do nothing but counter spells to be good.
If you’ve been playing long enough to remember decks that were centered solely on those strategies, that means you been playing Magic for about fifteen years without them.
I don’t understand how you can be playing for so many years if the think that makes Magic special to you, that you don’t want to play without, the thing that the game just isn’t fun if it’s missing hasn’t existed for fifteen years.
Wow, I wish that quote could have been around years ago, it should be pasted in red letters at the top of every modern control primer on this forum as a disclaimer.
So by this logic, I can't unconditionally counter a spell for 2 mana because it's "not fun", but someone virtually ending the game with a Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, or Boil is perfectly ok. Glad to have that cleared up.
I don't want any of those cards banned for the record.
Woah there feller, these are some mighty fine assumptions there, I suggest you read my condescending garbage a second time. But yes, that is likely far too provincial a generalization and a poor way to open my argument. I never said I wanted a dominant deck, it doesn't even have to be tier 1, all I called for are tools more on par with what the best colors have been getting, that's it, that's all. I would like to see the archetype become SLIGHTLY more competitive based on its card pool, and not vagaries of the shifting meta. I never argued it wasn't playable, and I do obviously play the cards you mentioned that close out the game, I wasn't being literal about the single win con comment, but I suppose I well have to be far more explicit in the future. But yes, I have no interest in playing Skred, you got me. Ironically, I feel as though your suggestion to turn to a mono red deck in order to recieve a more satisfying experience of playing control in modern only strengthens my argument.
Unfortunately I am heavily invested in modern at the moment, but I am watching how legacy changes with the top ban. I agree with you about Jace, but again, I don't think that is still a reason he should be banned in my opinion, especially as a card that was never modern legal. I do recognize that magic will likely never again see a Weissman style deck, and I should have better described that it is the concept, not the exact deck, that I would like to see a little more support for. Also, your tempo article was well articulated and reminiscent of some of the articles I have saved in my collection from early magic theory. Keep up the good work, your devotion to the archetype is admirable.
Edit 1 after thought
Edit 2 points given
If that's not your cup of tea, fine, it doesn't have to be, but I don't feel as though anyone has the right to use the "that's not fun" line when it comes to magic. Every time I sit across from an opponent who goes turn 1 Tron land into expedition map, a small part of me never wants to play this game again, but some people get off on playing 7 mana planeswalkers on turn 3. I respect their right to play the deck they want to play and don't want to see their archetype banned or killed off slowly by drying up the new printings that support their deck to keep it relevant in the modern meta. And THAT is my point. I don't want to split hairs over semantics about what is and is not blue, that wasn't really what I intended to address in my above post, it was merely the impetus that drove me to jump in here.
At the risk of being the entitled, salty nerd with a basic island fetish, I don't really think it is up for debate that control needs better cards, whether they are reprints, prints, or unbans, I don't care. Heck, blue's salvation can even be a permanent at this point (I'm a purist, sue me), I just want something that addresses what I think most people who play control in modern would agree are the decks biggest weaknesses; 1.) surviving the first 4 turns, 2.) drawing the right half of the deck (consistency) 3.) closing out the game. I notice that the people who did respond to my above comment didn't touch the second half of it pertaining to blue and white's inadequacies compared to the rest of the format. I would love to see blue receive an instant that is on par with Abrupt Decay or Collective Brutality, or Collected Company. Is that asking for too much? Would Fact or Fiction destroy modern as we know it? Again, I still don't think that even Jace would be too much at this point. I would even settle for another decent modal spell, something like this;
Lawkeeper's Charm
1WU
Instant
Counter target spell with CMC 4 or greater, or
Put target creature on top of it's owners library, or
gain 6 life.
If I didn't have other things I needed to get to tonight, I would go through and make some lists of cards that have entered the modern card pool since Return to Ravnica so we could compare what each archetype received by color. I predict that there would be a large disparity against reactive blue/white control elements relative to the rest of the field. Censor and As Foretold don't look like they are going to cut it, sorry. But if they do, I will gladly eat my words, as I would rather see control as an archetype get some love than to argue for the sake of trying to be "right."
For those of you who believe that UW is doing great though, again, it is just because of how those decks line up with the top of the field in the meta. Two months ago, no one had any incentive to sleeve up crypic commands. What changed? It wasn't the printing of control oriented bombs in Kaladesh and Aether Revolt*, I'll tell you that right there.
In closing, I hope that I don't just come across as a whiner. But cut me some slack, its not like I'm complaining that my 5 color bird combo deck isn't viable or anything, this is an archetype that has been around since the inception of the game that is slowly being bled out of options. Though I don't agree with all of his points, one of the things that cfusionpm has mentioned in the past is how long are we expected to "wait and see" for something to happen? My eyes are on Hour of Devastation, as I believe that is when Wizard's claimed was the earliest they could take corrective action on the whole creature/threat creep issue. If that set fails to deliver, I wont throw a tantrum and threaten to sell my collection, but I will certainly change the way I consume MTG products moving forward. If the best argument people can make at this point for Jace and Stoneforge for remaining on the banlist is because they "will mix things up a lot" or "it would be foolish to threaten this wonderful DiveRsitY!1!" that doesn't cut it in my book. Either way, sorry for the rant, it was kind of all over the place and I forgot some of the additional points I wanted to make.
TLDR: blue and white are still lagging behind in power level regardless of what the meta would suggest. Unban Jace and Mystic.
*Fatal Push is sweet, and a step in the right direction yes, but I think it is only the beginning of tilting the answers vs threats pendulum back in the correct direction.
Is a deck that plays Serum Visions, Thoughtscour, Snapcaster, and Stubborn Denial really considered a "blue" deck at this point? I feel like burn may as well be considered just as much a green or white deck if that is the case. In fact, how can anyone say that white is under represented then due to the support that Path to Exile lends to the decks that splash it?
Hyperbole aside, I still don't believe that anything has truly changed for blue and white, and as soon as the meta shifts again, UW control will likely decline in popularity once more. The current "success" of the deck is largely contingent on the current modern environment as far as I can tell. Neither color has recieved an actual increase in power level, but rather it seems what they offer just so happens to line up well with what the biggest other decks are doing at the moment. All the issues to do with the strength of white and blue still exist relative to what the rest of the color pie is doing.
Thoughtwrinkle
U
Sorcery
look at target player's hand. You may choose a nonland card from it. If you do, that player reveals the chosen card, puts it on the bottom of his or her library, then draws a card.
Busted? Unplayable? Goes right into grixis shadow?
Yeah, let’s talk about the color pie. So what is blue’s identity then in modern? As far as I can tell, it’s a few cantrips, some average card draw/selection spells, counterspells that are either good early game or late game, so you better hope draw the right ones at the right time (while leaning heavily on another color), and Snapcaster Mage.
The printing of Censor was the third strike for me. Missing out on Prohibit in BFZ, a card that would have been perfect for modern and not tag the fatties that see play in standard (as far as I know), was upsetting. Then, the lack of any revolt enabled counter was an egregious omission in my opinion. Finally, the unplayable Censor taking the place of Miscalculation is simply an affront at this point. So if I take your advice and “realign my expectations”, what should I expect exactly? Limited playable counterspells and sphinxes for as long as I want to continue playing blue in magic? Maybe I’m entitled, it’s possible, but I just look at the things that get printed for other slices of the color pie and I can’t help but feel a little left out.
You mentioned that the color pie was “mangled at times”, and it seems to be a growing trend in certain directions. Blue is essentially limited to the functions mentioned above in modern (with the notable exception going to merfolk), while another color, that shall remain nameless, has the most efficient/resilient creatures, has a 3 mana vindicate with an often irrelevant downside, increasing amounts of graveyard recursion, access to strong card draw/selection options that are justified by them being centered around creatures or lands, a spell that can cheat 6 mana worth of creatures onto the battlefield at instant speed for 4 mana, modern playable tutor capabilities, the ability to accelerate mana development, effects that grow its creatures both permanently and temporarily, graveyard hate, and has a growing repertoire of creatures with spells simply attached to them, or with repeatable abilities.
Just to be clear, I don’t want mono blue tyranny, just a counterspell that I can play on turn two, and turn twelve and feel like it was a worthwhile inclusion in my deck, or a win condition that isn’t just laughed off by my opponent and they continue to mash my face with beaters. Why does one player get to cast a Goyf on turn two and actively begin winning the game while another isn’t even allowed to unconditionally counter a spell for the same amount of mana just to prevent themselves from dying?
That may be, and correct me if I am wrong, but we have no reason to believe that Wizards bans or unbans cards with any thought to their price correct? And there is nothing stopping them from a future reprint as far as I know. There will always be expensive cards in the modern card pool, and I suspect Jace would likely make as many waves as Ancestral Vision after the month or so of testing wore off.
I won't pretend I don't have my own bias, but really, as the above posts mentioned, the growth of the color green far outstrips that of any other I believe, and green is certainly encroaching on the characteristics traditionally offered by other colors. To those that cite deck building restrictions as a handicap, let's be honest, there are plenty of cards in modern's vast pool to pick from that don't really hinder the effectiveness of their overall game plan. And again, who needs instants and sorceries when they conveniently come with 2/2 bodies these days?
I would invite you to take a gander at a foil esper charm sometime my friend =P
But on a more serous note, I will unabashedly display my own bias and echo the sentiment "why Red must be blue's savor?" I realize that yes, Twin is currently the only card on the banned list that would give blue these free wins, but I would rather see reprints or new cards introduced that were strong mono blue options. Not necessarily to give rise to a mono blue deck, but just so that they could go into whatever color combination people choose to run. Disallow was...interesting, but obviously not good enough for modern. I won't bother suggesting a hypothetical bit of counter magic, as plenty of others have already effortlessly posted completely fair, playable spells that they probably cooked up in 35 seconds that would pass through standard with ease while wizards was too busy dropping the ball.
While I agree with most of your points regarding wizards transparency, I don't see how a price increase based on a pseudo-unban would be worse or on par with that of an actual, surprise unban. At the very least, every player would know that there is a chance this card may not come off the list to begin with, so they can all act accordingly. Again, the feedback system I mentioned could help to assuage this to a point, maybe have a dynamic "approval rating" on the website.
Yes, I realize that this flies in the face of everything Wizards has done up until this point in terms of sharing information, but I know I am not alone in wanting more communication from this company. This was more just a thought experiment at what the community would view as an acceptable "olive branch" in terms of letting us in a little bit so that we can actualy make choices instead of throwing up our hands and posting about how if X, Y, or Z happens, we will sell our entire collection.
That being said, I agree with the sentiment of whoever posted something to the effect of "if you want to play with a card on the ban list, buy it now." Dig the well long before you get thirsty and all that. Even if the card never come off, it's price will likely hover around its banned value anyway.