If the people on the x=y wagon could clear/condemn themselves accordingly, that would be great.
I want to lynch Ophidiaslot for trying to overcompensate on their newness and sitting on their RVS vote all of D1. Pozzai is eh, he's felt like a Designated Default Lynch since D1 and it doesn't feel right.
I guess tom/Newcomb/Iso can be left alone. Empoof is great, even if he isn't Delphi. Which means I'm interested in offing Tyslot for being the scum that mislynched wei.
This will be my first time in /years/ not immediately /inning into something and it feels yucky, but blah blah school and I need for some of my mafia-time to be me-time again before I graduate and leave all my friends.
Pssshh, you don't have any friends, Mafia is your only friend, no one loves you like Mafia does
True, but mafia will always be there for me, whereas college life will not.
This will be my first time in /years/ not immediately /inning into something and it feels yucky, but blah blah school and I need for some of my mafia-time to be me-time again before I graduate and leave all my friends.
Vaimes I have a question for you how open do you think town players should be to others in terms of reads, changing reads. Etc.
I don't know. I'm mostly okay with people just doing their own thing, provided it doesn't shoot their own team in the foot.
I voice ~almost everything that's on my mind. I don't like holding onto thoughts for secret reasons (unless I'm a PR with info or whatever) because 1) it will make people suspicious and they'll waste time asking me why I didn't share my thought process in the first place, and 2) I usually don't take notes in MTGS games, so I'm liable to forget why a read changed.
Mmmm.
Let me ask what I want to know then.
If you are town reading someone should you fight for that town read?
Usually I don't bother unless it looks like they're going to die, or are a big distraction.
Why are you not willing to grant me the same leniency you're granting yourself re: wanting to swing the wagon?
There was a nonzero chance Wei was mafia there. That chance dropped from above 50% to below it as the day went on, but it certainly wasn't zero when we lynched him. I don't agree that the case on him was superficial; it wasn't a matter of how he presented himself, it was a matter of energy and positioning, which are different things.
The calculus from EoD was, plain and simple: are you willing to take a not great, but not terrible shot that this guy is mafia, and if you're right the game feels great, and if you're wrong, you're at the very least depriving mafia of an easy place to push D2? And to that equation I said, "I don't feel great about it, but yes."
If more people had taken the reasons I gave for townreading him and ran with it, I'd have gone along, probably. But they didn't, and I simply was not up to being xequaly's knight in shining armor, both for OOG reasons and because frankly I didn't want to look like a complete fool if he flipped mafia.
Because I know my alignment!
I can feel my resolve slipping here. I know without a doubt that if you're mafia here, you will be able to talk me out of it. And uh. I don't want that, for the same reasons you (as town) wouldn't want to look like a fool for defending scum!wei.
So I think it's best we both just do our things for a bit.
Newcomb, nothing in my read of you is "Newcomb isn't obsessing over the thread enough, lynch it." Nor do I think it would have taken a surmountable effort to change your vote and request others do the same if they agree with you.
You're asking me a lot of questions, but you still haven't answered a really important one: why did you say we had to clear x=y if we didn't lynch him D1? That is what's really bugging me here.
You say you want to win, but from my POV, you saw a potential mislynch and just shrugged and went for it. I don't want to punish you for wanting to be less Obsessed, but I don't want to just let it go either.
It stings a bit that you think I'd try and take you out as mafia when you're busy for a cheap laugh, ngl.
Do you think xequalsy would just, like, summon up a new posting style D2 if he'd lived?
Not lynching him there means, inevitably, that we're just in the same position on D2. He'd be alive, a question mark, and posting without town energy. It just... wouldn't progress the game at all. Unless you just clear him. If you could really make that jump and look at those reasons I gave and say, "yeah, this is just... always a mislynch, given how this Day has gone," then you progress the game and work from there. But if you can't, and I couldn't quite bring myself to (both because I wasn't /sure/ sure, and because this being an easy game would just be too nice given my business to not find out), it just... doesn't make sense not to lynch him unless you want to hear a remix of D1 on D2. It sucks that he was town, but at least it's over and done with and forcing people to either genuinely look elsewhere or fake looking elsewhere. A living town!xequalsy D2 just gives scum cover, again, unless we actually made the jump to clear him.
This isn't, like, a new concept or anything. In fact I'm pretty sure I used this exact same reasoning to lynch DLE in the Wildcard game, which IIRC you read, so like. What gives?
In general, I think a lot of people mistake "being scummy" for "being likely to actually flip scum".
Are you saying we couldn't have cleared him based on future actions, reactions, interactions, PR info, wagon info, spew, blah blah blah? Are we lynching people who look scummy, or people who are likely scum? You know how some people are stale on D1 and flare to life as the game goes on.
I don't see a reason why he had to be lynched, full stop. There was no deadline. He only got lynched because he superficially looked bad and was the unfortunate D1 tunnel of Iso. And now I'm kind of kicking myself for not trying to swing the wagon.
Also, I didn't read that game. As if I have the time. I just skimmed your ISO mostly.
Here, Newcomb, let's try this. I'll be you for a sec.
This game isn't a huuuge priority for me because I want to enjoy Other Stuff, but I'd still prefer to win and help my teammates and junk.
x=y has been scummy, he's a pretty consensus scumread. It's too easy, no real alternatives have popped up or been proposed. The complete lack of resistance to this lynch ~probably means he's town. I don't really have the energy to force another wagon --
That's where the narrative splits and gets fuzzy for me. One path leads to a world where you're mafia, the other, town.
In the mafia world, you made that post to look like you're thinking about the game. To sort of distance yourself from a wagon you want to go through anyways. You frame the lynch as an either-or, a black or white: "Either we lynch x=y now or we have to clear him. I don't want to clear him, therefore, lynch." This is the main reason I'm on this path.
In the town world, you wanted to wagon someone else, but felt like it wouldn't work out. And it would probably take waaay too much effort to convince everyone (like Iso) to lynch/wagon someone else.
Overall it's a case of words vs. actions. Your words said "I should move the wagon, or at least my vote," and your actions said "lynch away."
So yeah, the "we have to clear him" thing is all I really want answered. I don't need a lecture on your personal life, I'm already aware you have a song in your soul and a dance in your heart.
Vaimes I have a question for you how open do you think town players should be to others in terms of reads, changing reads. Etc.
I don't know. I'm mostly okay with people just doing their own thing, provided it doesn't shoot their own team in the foot.
I voice ~almost everything that's on my mind. I don't like holding onto thoughts for secret reasons (unless I'm a PR with info or whatever) because 1) it will make people suspicious and they'll waste time asking me why I didn't share my thought process in the first place, and 2) I usually don't take notes in MTGS games, so I'm liable to forget why a read changed.
Also, the only reason I'm answering your questions is to keep my #topposter status.
These sound like questions you should ask me when we're not in a game together.
Pozzai - 2 (Vaimes, Regfan)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Pozzai)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 6 (Typhrous, Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb, Grapefruit21, tomsloger) (L-1)
---
If the people on the x=y wagon could clear/condemn themselves accordingly, that would be great.
I want to lynch Ophidiaslot for trying to overcompensate on their newness and sitting on their RVS vote all of D1. Pozzai is eh, he's felt like a Designated Default Lynch since D1 and it doesn't feel right.
I guess tom/Newcomb/Iso can be left alone. Empoof is great, even if he isn't Delphi. Which means I'm interested in offing Tyslot for being the scum that mislynched wei.
Hasn't he ever heard the expression "less is more, also leave Vaimes to his petty victories"?
It depends on the situation.
Locking onto a read is dangerous unless you're sure beyond a reasonable doubt. And even then you should be careful.
boop
Also that.
sgmeo the comb.
And I'm not a suspect or a major point of conversation, unlike some people.
I'll be catching up shortly.
This will be my first time in /years/ not immediately /inning into something and it feels yucky, but blah blah school and I need for some of my mafia-time to be me-time again before I graduate and leave all my friends.
Thank you for being you.
DV, I'll try to get to your silly questions before I peace out.
I can feel my resolve slipping here. I know without a doubt that if you're mafia here, you will be able to talk me out of it. And uh. I don't want that, for the same reasons you (as town) wouldn't want to look like a fool for defending scum!wei.
So I think it's best we both just do our things for a bit.
Are you saying we couldn't have cleared him based on future actions, reactions, interactions, PR info, wagon info, spew, blah blah blah? Are we lynching people who look scummy, or people who are likely scum? You know how some people are stale on D1 and flare to life as the game goes on.
I don't see a reason why he had to be lynched, full stop. There was no deadline. He only got lynched because he superficially looked bad and was the unfortunate D1 tunnel of Iso. And now I'm kind of kicking myself for not trying to swing the wagon.
Also, I didn't read that game. As if I have the time. I just skimmed your ISO mostly.
This game isn't a huuuge priority for me because I want to enjoy Other Stuff, but I'd still prefer to win and help my teammates and junk.
x=y has been scummy, he's a pretty consensus scumread. It's too easy, no real alternatives have popped up or been proposed. The complete lack of resistance to this lynch ~probably means he's town. I don't really have the energy to force another wagon --
That's where the narrative splits and gets fuzzy for me. One path leads to a world where you're mafia, the other, town.
In the mafia world, you made that post to look like you're thinking about the game. To sort of distance yourself from a wagon you want to go through anyways. You frame the lynch as an either-or, a black or white: "Either we lynch x=y now or we have to clear him. I don't want to clear him, therefore, lynch." This is the main reason I'm on this path.
In the town world, you wanted to wagon someone else, but felt like it wouldn't work out. And it would probably take waaay too much effort to convince everyone (like Iso) to lynch/wagon someone else.
Overall it's a case of words vs. actions. Your words said "I should move the wagon, or at least my vote," and your actions said "lynch away."
So yeah, the "we have to clear him" thing is all I really want answered. I don't need a lecture on your personal life, I'm already aware you have a song in your soul and a dance in your heart.
I voice ~almost everything that's on my mind. I don't like holding onto thoughts for secret reasons (unless I'm a PR with info or whatever) because 1) it will make people suspicious and they'll waste time asking me why I didn't share my thought process in the first place, and 2) I usually don't take notes in MTGS games, so I'm liable to forget why a read changed.