This is the deck I built for my wife to play when she wants to play modern with me (she's almost exclusively a drafter). She loves it since it's pretty straightforward to pilot, but does reward skill with some of the decision trees. It's a powerful fair deck that can get wins against almost any deck. My wife has a pretty even record with the deck almost always going 2-2 or 3-1 at FNMs even though she plays the deck just 4-5 times a year.
The list I have for her is very similar to this:
-4 Groundbreaker
+4 Leatherback Baloth
-2 Kalonian Tusker
+2 Forest
-1 Rancor
+1 Vines of Vastwood
-1 Treetop Village
+1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
The reasoning for all of the above:
In our meta, leatherback sticking around is often better than the fleeting existence that is groundbreaker.
Rancor is something you definitely want to see, but often only want 1 of them any given game, which I've always associated with being a 3x card. Vines is great protection/pump, so you're never really upset to have 2 of those in your opening hand.
Having a couple fewer Tuskers (probably the worst card in the deck currently) in order to have 21 total lands is nice. This build of the deck runs 7x 3-drops so you do want to be able to hit that 3rd land drop consistently on turn 3 or 4 ... and with just 19 lands where 3 come in tapped, that won't be happening enough.
Doing a 2/1 split with treetop and oran-rief is what I'd recommend since it just makes your draws better, which (in my opinion) is better than the marginal utility of a 3rd treetop. Later in the game if you have an oran-rief, it can turn tusker into a 4/4 for 3 (not shabby), a leatherback into a 5/6 for 4, and even your dinky 1-drops aren't as bad of top decks when you get a 3/2 militant for 2. If your geist died and you cast another creature too, they'll both get additional counters, bringing the geist up to 4/3, which is cool. The rief can help get additional counters on your dudes so that a top decked avatar can be absurd. I've seen my wife resolve a 3 mana (due to oran adding an additional counter) 9/8 trampler on a stalled board against me when I was playing merfolk just because she had 2 E1s, an ooze, tusker, and dungrove all with counters that weren't quite big enough to get past a bunch of my 4/4 or 5/4 merfolk that were lacking spreading seas.
I might give this a try; it'll help keep up the threat density.
Your "I think Baloth is one of those worst/best cards in the deck" is what has been bugging me for a while. When he's great, he's often what wins the game. He's just very lackluster a lot of the time, and I don't feel that way about most of the other cards in the deck; I think most are really solid. He's a huge threat for a 3 drop, but being vanilla really hurts. As I've stated before, I have the same feelings about Dungrove: when he's great, he's really great, otherwise he's a 3/3 or maybe 4/4 hexproof that only adds 1 devotion. In my opinion, Dungrove is for decks that ramp and has no business being in a stompy build.
Maybe I'm just trying to play this deck too aggressively / trying to make stompy into green burn, in which case the 3 & 4 drops don't have much of a place. Part of this is that I feel the 3 and 4 drops push us more towards midrange, where we're just out-classed by a bunch of other stuff. All of this could be unfounded and simply a consequence of playing mono green infect in pauper for years and being used to very fast games when I choose to be a green mage.
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Also, cool stuff caiobos, I'm definitely going to do some testing with the counter-heavy build, at least see how it goldfishes and how painful it is not to get the Hardened Scales.
4 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Bosk Banneret
4 Dauntless Dourbark
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Dungrove Elder
3 Leaf-Crowned Elder
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Timber Protector
4 Treefolk Harbinger
2 Lignify
2 Nameless Inversion
1 Rootgrapple
She's been having some good results still. The mana base looks a little scrappy (budget reasons), but so far she has not been having problems getting the splash colors when she needs them. Main deck white is really light (just doran), but sideboard is pretty white heavy (obviously since it's the best color for sideboard).
Dungrove Elder is an amazing card, but they were too slow for my liking. Maybe they're a 1-2 of or just sideboard; they're often a 3/3 hexproof still on turn 5-6 (due to running the 17-20 forests we do): a bit underwhelming despite their great late game potential. I feel without running ramp, he's just not as good as other alternatives. Heck, Scavenging Ooze often gets a lot bigger, does it faster, and provides a lot of other perks that dungrove doesn't provide ... granted, without hexproof.
I spent part of today watching a bunch of the stompy vids that are on youtube (I'm a vet who works 9 months of the year and is on call the other 3 due to seasonal breeding / animal rescue ... so I have some free time to spend on hobbies in the winter). Anyway, in all but 1 (of over 15+ games where leatherback was cast), I would have rather had a ram-gang if I were the pilot in that situation. Many times haste meant he could have actually gotten in for damage vs leatherback not attacking before being removed ... or ram-gang got in for 3x2 vs leatherback 4x1. A few times the wither would have mattered, and only once did an opponent have a bolt that would have logically taken out a ram-gang (after it would have been able to attack once), where the bolt wasn't used on the leatherback, but on a tusker instead.
As good as ram-gang is (since I'm arguing it's better than leatherback and alternatively dungrove), I'm not entirely satisfied with him either. I'm questioning whether a 3 drop is even necessary in the first place. I often would rather play another two drop on t3 + hold up vines or cast dismember/prey upon/aspect for 5ish than cast a 3 drop. If I have 4 mana and cards in hand, I'd almost always like to cast either two 2cmc or one + vines with kicker, or a Scooze and gobble up some stuff ... you get the idea. Even later in the game, I'd rather be spending mana elsewhere than casting a GGG card, which is why they often sit in my hand. When it comes down to it, I'd much rather have that card sitting in my hand be an Obstinate Baloth so I can gain some life down the line or combat a mid-game thoughtsieze/lily or something. I've even been thinking about having the 3cmc slot being just 4 Beast Within so I can either kill the most threatening thing my opponent has going on, or turn a pre-undying dude into a 3/3 and +1/+1 creature, or transform a forest if I'm flooding out.
All that being said, have any of you guys tested builds that omit the 3 and 4 drops? If so, how were your results. Also, if omitting the 3 drops, what is anybody's opinion on being able to main deck some ghost quarter (maybe 3) since we wouldn't be as taxed needing to hit triple green? Something like that may help out a few matchups.
I've only played against restore balance once, and I easily won, and have never seen it since, so I haven't given it much thought. It's just a sweeper that'll maybe take a land or two (unless it has all the posts). Sideboard: probably Dismember / Beast Within and artifact hate if they play the artifact mana things. All of their suspend guys (not counting gargadon) die to dismember, and even gargadon can usually be taken out with a dismember + chumping with pretty much any creature we have, or just a simple beast within.
I remember the guy who I played against was not playing with the artifact mana fixing, so one game he was really durdling around and I guess having mana issues. I think it's a 5 color deck with some sketchy mana, so it can be a little "glass cannon", but the one with better mana is really vulnerable to artifact hate, and targeted discard ... which loads of decks around me run, so I'm pretty sure that's why I never see it being played.
Infect though: artifact + creature destruction. They'll often have either inkmoth or spellskite, so instant speed artifact hate is great. Vines is obviously good for keeping them from pumping too much. Dismember is great, Beast Within is good, Gut Shot is ok. Guttural Response can often be good against them too if they're siding in dispel, and most run main spell pierce and one of the 1 cmc blue evasion enablers. I haven't had much trouble with infect since we got avatar. He helps so much against inkmoth and their black flyer. We can usually kill off or chump their glistener / ichorclaw, and a lot of my kill spells hit blighted agent. Another card that's great in so many matchups (but especially infect) is Fog. You can usually 2 or 3 for 1 them with that. They'll load up a blighted agent with might + vines and have exalted or pendalhaven, and then you just fog it. It's such a blowout if it is timed correctly. It also works well on affinity when they go all-in. I have won a lot of tron matchups by simply fogging a wurmcoil attack and then getting an alpha strike the next turn for lethal.
My cardboard meta is expensive tier 1 deck heavy (jund, abzan, twin, affinity, zoo, RUG delver, grixis, infect, etc...), so I definitely have my deck and sideboard tailored to that, but yeah I worry very little about "cheaper" decks like tron, merfolk, burn, boggles, etc... and not at all about budget stuff since my significant other and I are the only ones who ever play "budget" decks when we show up with our cardboard.
Something like a costed 1/2 reach Kataki, War's Wage would be wonderful sideboard material for us.
I'd also like to see a costed 3/4 first strike Thalia, Guardian of Thraben that hates on non-green + non-white spells instead of non-creature.
That's what I'm afraid of with Groundbreaker. It's not that I don't want Leatherback Baloth ... it's just that I have been underwhelmed by it's performance. It's great against some decks, but I am honestly boarding it out a lot. Whenever I find myself boarding something out more than keeping it in, I begin to question whether or not it deserves a spot in the deck, or if something else would be better in its place.
I think I saw a post on here a while ago about somebody taking Leatherback out and just running +2 1cmc creatures and +2 2cmc guys. Part of it (for me) is that on turn 3, I'd rather be putting out another 2 drop and holding up mana for aspect or vines so I can stay ahead on board. Or other times, I just look at him and wish he was a Finks or had haste or something.
I'm well aware of why he's good: nothing else available with his stats for 3cmc, evolves E1, doesn't die (on its own) to bolt / most damage sweepers. A lot of times, he's a solid top deck, but at the same time, a lot of other things would be just as good, if not better as a top deck.
This has been bugging me too. I've not been missing Leatherback Baloth all that much when I board it out. I often think "what is the top deck I want to see?" and he's almost never the answer ... even though he's more or less our curve topper. I've tried Dungrove Elder and Wild Defiance (with 4 vines, 4 prey upon, 2 aspect, 2 primal bellow, 2 apostle's blessing for loads of stuff that targets) so far in the spot. Neither feel like a perfect fit for the deck, but both often out-perform him, so I'm still torn. I haven't tried Boggart Ram-Gang yet, but it's next on my list. Both abilities are often relevant. I'm honestly thinking about giving Groundbreaker some serious playtesting too. Baloth is often either a "win more" card or just too slow and has little impact on the game.
And yeah, white is the only splash color that makes any sense for us.
When I side in Ghost Quarter, it is usually against decks I am trying to race before they hit whatever their critical mass of lands is. I often board out Leatherback Baloth because he's too slow when I'm going for a faster game; I would rather be throwing down another 2 drop + pumping or holding up a land or two for removing something they have. In that case, I usually only need 2 forests, so the Ghost Quarter doesn't hurt that much. It has often given me the extra turn I need against Tron and Amulet (sometimes even won me the game via destroying land they need to pay for one of their pacts).
I've found myself boarding out Leatherback Baloth a lot vs more midrange decks. He's not a ton more impressive than an Avatar with a counter or two, and if I can get an ooze to stick, they do a ton more work than the Baloth ever ends up doing. I have liked the way Wild Defiance has worked against midrange / grindy opponents. It doesn't immediately add to the board, but it keeps Lightning / Rift Bolt, Kolaghan's Command, Galvanic Blast, Searing Blaze, Searing Blood, Electrolyze, Disfigure, and sometimes Dismember from being creature removal anymore. One not so obvious thing I've liked about it is that it turns Prey Upon into a powerhouse removal card. Most of the time Prey Upon won't work against Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, big Goyf, Primeval Titan, Master of Etherium, or even Deceiver Exarch and Spellskite (at least not pre-combat), but with Wild Defiance out, even a Dryad Militant can take out most of those guys, and any of our bigger guys should easily survive the fight.
Maybe it's just because I've got a little Timmy in me and this was just an extraordinary blowout so it sticks in my mind and gives me warm fuzzies over Wild Defiance: the other week I was playing against Jund and had an avatar with +1/+1, and a Wild Defiance vs opponent's Gurmag Angler + a 4/5 Tarmogoyf with him at 11 life, I'm at 4. I had a vines + forest in hand and was pretty dead, even if I drew into another creature to chump with ... but I drew Prey Upon. So I started with the Prey Upon first main to clear the Angler, he Terminates in response (he was holding it in case I played another creature so I would only have 1 and he could get through for lethal the following turn, plus, he jumped at the chance to 2:1 me), then I vines with kicker responding to the terminate = GG. It was beautiful.
For a while we had a few new players at the LGS running around with the BW tokens event deck; this was around the same time Pod was banned. I replaced Torpor Orb in my sideboard with Ratchet Bomb since it would do a nice one time replacement of Torpor Orb against Twin, and would be a one sided board sweeper against all the tokens decks that were running around. So that's another thing to consider against a pretty diverse meta. It can mess up a lot of decks that run tons of 0 and 1 cmc stuff (tokens, affinity, twin on their first attempt to combo, aura/hexproof, etc...)
The list looks good. Since you're still building it, some of my pondering to consider: I've really liked a 2/2 split with Aspect of Hydra and Primal Bellow. It is totally a meta call, but I often find games grinding a bit long and bellow ends up being better than aspect in a removal heavy environment. I have been keeping treetop village in the sideboard to come in for grindy matches. I also like a 10x 1cmc base, so I run 2x Young Wolf. I have 12x 2cmc with 2x oozes main, which means Tusker took a cut down to 2.
Other cards that I've found to perform well (could be meta-dependent) in my sideboard are: Krosan Grip, Wild Defiance, Ghost Quarter, and Mistcutter Hydra. Just some stuff for you / others to think about and/or voice opinions on.
A couple of us were literally just talking about it. I find Dromoka's Command to be a really slow card. I don't like holding up 2 mana unless I'm against twin and have dismember/vines in hand. I'd rather be throwing down more power with 2 drop creatures. It's a reactive card, and I'm fine with splashing a few of those if they're 1 drops, but I personally find it to be too much for an aggro deck. It's probably ok as a 1 of main or 2 of sideboard if you're already splashing white, but that's it. I remember merfolk going though a lot of debates when it was a tier 2 deck and the lists were getting all the bugs out. They ultimately decided that all the 2 drop reaction spells were just too slow for the aggro/tempo game they wanted to be playing. That's why you won't see mana leaks or remands or echoing truths in any of their lists now that their lists are refined. 2 cmc is just too slow if you're not adding power to the board or playing a hate card that completely destroys your opponent (chalice on 1, kataki, stony silence, rest in peace, hurkyl's, back to nature, etc...).
My opinion on Gelid Shackles: bad in stompy. Sorcery speed is relevant. I'd rather have 4 dismember if I wanted path # 5-8. What is Gelid Shackles taking care of for us that path or dismember or beast within isn't ... also what is it not taking care of that the others would? Their guys can still attack too.
No worries about the effort, I was curious myself. I don't think the # of shocks was the biggest issue. It was mostly the pinging for 1 each turn. with 8 fetches 6 basics 4 shocks, you're likely to draw 1-2 fetches in the opener and then grab a basic or shock, so odds that the next land(s) you draw into are fetches are still high.
I definitely feel most comfortable recommending only one color splash, and white seems the most bang for your buck. The razorverge thicket really help out with mitigating life loss, and then only having 4 fetches + 2 shocks keeps things under control.
You should not be afraid of ghost quarter / tec edge. Ghost quarter: you're just getting a forest anyway. I guess double tec edge is a thing after your t4, but that seems pretty fringe. The only times you'll be a huge target of LD is from those decks that it won't matter if you're running non-basics anyway (loam pox, death & taxes), since they already maindeck GQ + crucible / mindcensor / arbiter. Maybe decks that main fulminator mage would be a little rough, but that's just Living End. I don't think anybody is going to side in LD against mono-G stompy with a splash for PtE + sideboard.
I think blood moon is strictly a meta call and could totally wreck house (if there's loads of tron/amulet/combo/zoo/greedy jund/junk/etc...). It also doesn't terribly effect a lot of decks and costs a lot of tempo where you're not adding any dudes to the board, plus 3-4+ life loss / game with that many fetches could really hurt a lot of matchups. If I were splashing red for blood moon, I'd probably go all in with 4 of them or just 4 Magus of the Moon since he could potentially evolve experiment one and attack in himself ... we are an aggro deck after all!
I'm a purist and will stick to mono-g, tried and true
I did the same 15 games to t6 (mulled once) goldfishing with a build using 4 windswept, 4 razorverge, and 2 temple garden (only splashing white). In that, I averaged 2.8 damage / game from lands.
Granted, this isn't a huge sample size to look at, but it is a starting point for consideration.
I feel that in a real game I'd want to be more aggressive with fetching duals early. This is because we want to be casting creatures main phase and combat tricks during combat. Obviously, we play slower vs some opponents, but I think it would be a slightly higher damage / game average against an actual opponent. I do retract my initial "you'll be taking 5-7 damage / game" proclamation. A more reasonable range for that 8x fetches + 4x shock would probably be 3-6 damage / game. A reasonable range to consider for the 4x fetch + 4x fast + 2x shock would be 2-4 damage / game ... at least when comparing damage from lands to that from dismember.
Also, just with the goldfishing, I didn't really like Dromoka's Command. It seemed far too slow. Maybe I'm just spoiled by all the 1cmc spells we play. I know we play vines, which is kinda a 2cmc spell, but I'm generally ok with leaving a single forest untapped to save it for a vines. I'm much less excited about keeping 2 untapped for Dromoka's.
All that being said: I could totally support playing a white splash running 4x path as the removal. You could also completely revamp your sideboard with all the white goodies to make many matchups a lot stronger. I am personally a purist and will forever play this deck mono-G, but I think white could work.
I think a manabase with 4 fast lands, 4 fetches, and 2 duals will give you the 2-4 life loss / game that you're looking for. You'd only be able to splash 1 color (obviously white) and it could keep the same stompy creatures so it's basically the same deck, just with path / dromoka's and a better sideboard.
I could only justify splashing 1 additional color: white. Splashing white has the biggest upside (Path to Exile, Dromoka's Command, and all the sweet white sideboard tech), but it'll probably slow us down some small fraction of games with mulligans and average us starting with around 16 life. If I were to splash white, I'd go with a 4x windswept heath 2x temple garden 4x razorverge thicket 12x forest to reliably get the white for PtE and whatever sideboard upgrades white offers.
Splashing red adds Lightning Bolt (mostly), with the possibility of Ghor-Clan Rampager, Atarka's Command plus some "meh" sideboard tech. I guess Burning-Tree Emissary is a consideration since it's basically free, but using that GR mana during a main phase is awkward if you have a hand of a ton of GG or GGG still. I honestly don't think splashing red is worth it unless you heavily invest in red / straight up change your build to Gruul agro, but then it's not the same deck. Gruul can be as explosive as affinity with the ability to dump out 4 creatures by t2 and swinging with 5+ creatures on t3. It can also be pretty janky and unimpressive too.
As far as splashing both: if you're playing 8-12 fetches and the two green shocks, you might as well throw in a Wild Nacatl since you'll have plains and mountains online turn 2. With that many fetches and instants in the yard, plus whatever your opponent is doing, Tarmogoyf becomes desirable, and Goblin Guide is good enough at that point to justify it since it's such a good card anyway. You'd probably need to cut a few of the GG or GGG cards to make room for those guys since they'll be straight up better. If that lowers your curve, maybe cut a couple lands. At this point, aspect isn't as good either, so might as well put in some combo of lightning helix / atarka's command / boros charm / dromoka's command / etc... This sounds like a deck I've seen somewhere before though
On a slightly different topic: I played mono-G infect in pauper for years, and eventually switched to UG after invigorate banning, so the best way I know how to deal with big beefy blockers is to ignore them (unblockable / shadow / flying / protection). One nice piece of mono-G tech that lets you block and/or get past angler/goyf/wurmcoil at least for a turn is Apostle's Blessing. That turn may be all you need to finish the tron/jund player off. It has tons of other uses from being a pseudo counterspell, trading for their blocker, giving evasion, etc... so it most likely won't be a dead draw. I know that won't work as well against blocking a titan, but most things in modern don't have trample, so it's a possibility for you.