This is not a Gigantosaurus (jY-gan-to-saurus)...it's a Giganotosaurus (jig-a-note-o-saurus). Gigantosaurus is a long necked fatty who eats trees. Riot people, they're all misprints! We're missing an "o"
Discuss your plans for a pitchfork mob at Wizards below...
Genuine curious about the format. I keep hearing it's inevitable or it's dead on arrival and it's left me waiting to see if I should invest. Right now I hear it's mainly Coco and Siege Rhinos all day, but is that because of an unsettled meta? Either way I'd love to give my standard cards more use since modern is very outside my current card pool and embraces deck philosophies I'm not huge on (not a fan of 'oops I win' decks)
My major question of this combo isn't so much can it be beaten (we see the GB and Mardu are doing quite well), it's if it will open up more to the format. I personally think the combo is toxic to the meta and leaves only a few decks with the needs to beat it and the other top tier and would rather enjoy a format of not flooding spots with combo answers. Currently the meta is basically 4 shells and a lot of variants: Mardu, Jeskai Saheeli, 4 color Saheeli, and the many many GB(R) builds.
Well If you're pumping guys glint becomes a lot better. Remember she has menace. If you're using Rishkar and Drana to throw counters down, you can turn her into a wincon. She can also be used as a battery for energy. If you have swing with her and a pumped cub...they need 3 blockers to stop all of it and you are building that cub bigger either way. It exhausts resources. She's wuite flexible in the game plan TBH.
Greenbelt is playable turn 2 by itself if you have GG. T1: cast/bounce, net 1 energy. T2, cast/bounce, net 2nd energy, cast again, use energy.
I dunno, I'm testing out this snake and it is working as intended the main issue being its own body is unimpressive. I tested Rishkar and that helps a lot though. T2: snek T3: Rishkar...they're now both 4/5's. There's a lot of stong play lines, the question is more how durable it is when answers start coming into play. But cub and snek are insane in test:
T1: Attune (2 energy)
T2: Cub
T3: Snek, Hub (4 energy), use 4 energy and put four +1/+1's on cub, swing for 6, gain energy (3 energy)
As far as Grim Flayer...obviously an amazing card, but without delirium it's unimpressive and energy builds don'r really do that well. It also has no synergy with the rest of the deck beyond hoping for the buff. Early game it will sit as a harmless 2/2 hoping to get through.
Heroic Intervention seems good for SB at least. I updated my list, added drana in and dropped the tireless.
*Also yes I'm obnoxiously calling it Snek and I won't be stopped.
This version is VERY low to the ground aggro build that focuses on above curve bodies and getting them pumped quickly with snake and triggers. Uncontested, kills turn 5-6 so we'll see how this plays out when answers are present. There's play lines that can let you keep growing without over extending as well.
In SB Fatal pushes help in aggro matches but has flexible uses in other matchups too. Natural State takes care of vehicles and stasis snares. Heart of Kiran helps against control and works fairly well with Hissing quagmire post wipe, the 4 dmg kills many troublesome planeswalkers. Ob nix helps against grindy control matchups similar to chandra. Yahenni's is fairly easy to play around if you plan for it, pumping your creatures safely above 3 def, removing chumpers, and of course the free cast. Demon does much of the same as Yahenni's, but has a bit more versatility as a win con, you'll likely side both.
This can easily go midrange by adding in gearhulks, planeswalkers, and vehicles and likely will be clear which path once it tests against the meta. I'll be testing both versions.
yeah this will be interesting. There's merit to both GB and GR...but I'll be testing GB primarily. I think the deck can grow very fast and win through bodies alone, the big issue is solving the wide strats and wipes. A gideon + fumigate is gg versus the lists I've seen. That said we need to look at evasion/trample, vehicles, card advantage, and removal types as answers outside the base shell.
So I wanna talk about these misc cards as some have MB potential and others SB or potential meta. We have a fairly low curve and we can afford to put in some card advantage to play a game of lots of casting and the potential to rebuild. Tireless Tracker makes a case to return, filling a 3 slot which we don't have a lot of, and now made better with constrictor. The Nissa plays well with out +1/+1 counter theme, but also gives us the ability to go wide and get around chump locks as we don't have a lot of ways to get around that strategy. Yahenni's Expertise is a strong SB choice as we are hoping to grow above the 3 def with most of our beaters and can give us a huge advantage against a Gideon or Ishkanah. Demon of Dark Schemes plays a similar role as a way to combat wide strats and has a 5/5 body and a mechanic that works with our deck, only issue is the 6 cost and ability may be too slow. Still a valid 1-2 of in an SB to consider. Ob Nixilis replace Chandra as our + for card advantage, - for kill a creature. It's a turn slower, but more consistent. This will be a great choice in control matchups to get around wipes and deal with threats that need to die immediately.
I think between these cards it's a matter of mixing and matching to find the right curves and density of roles, but this seems like a strong start. Here's my update list for day 1.
Maybe there's a Jund or sultai splash? I dunno. I think it's obvious we keep the green base, but black is making a strong case to work with this deck and we may see GRx energy aggro become Gx aggro. G base, R/B secondary, U/R/B tertiary. White seems to be unneeded with all the tools now.
But like I said, my 1st draft needs works. It has it's own engine, but it doesn't have a plan on decks that can chump and board wipe...so testing is needed to figure out what we need. The biggest enemies in the current meta are Gideon, Zombie/spirit reanimator, delerium spider, Fumigate.
Have we considered a possible GB energy build? Winding Constrictor is a house and Glint-Sleeve Siphoner and Fatal Push are quite nice. Add in the new 'must have card' Greenbelt Rampager and you get a REALLY strong synergy Longtusk Cub. It basically lets you cast the greenbelt to amass energy then consistently convert it, never letting it resolve as a 3/4 and remaining in hand as a battery, roughly translates as: pay GG - Longtusk gets a +1/+1 counter. If you have a constrictor though... you get: pay G - Longtusk gets two +1/+1 counters. Longtusk will also amass more counter per attack damage trigger. I've been musing a build, but the curve is a bit too low to the ground in its 1st draft (it may not need servants actually and maybe prefer tireless trackers?):
Other obstacles of this draft is surviving board wipes and getting around chumping. Heart of Kiran deals with things like gideon. Losing chandra by dropping red hurts our control match up, so not sure what the fix is there ye..
Did you just use the "it dies to doomblade" argument to discredit cub? It's a 2 drops that forces removal or becomes a problem eventually (Even if it can't attack, you can ETB your way to energy). When a card demands that it instantly eats removal it is very good. It also means your follows ups are safer, and at a point where we start having more energy and mana to use our hexproof shenanigans. I also like that you can risk a T3 tracker with no land drop after if they waste mana to kill cub T2.
Arlin was cute, but I agree...she felt unoptimal and totally outclassed by Chandra. Aetherworks however doesn't go in this deck. You are better off putting in the card you want to hit with Aetherworks, than gambling with your energy to find it and likely get something below the mana you spent. You need fatties or a major energy engine to justify this card.
I think Pia is great in Copter builds, but only justified as 3 drop redundancy otherwise.
I made Modern Commander for this very reason. I was running a vastly OP deck in a Spike met and wanted to see more diversity in archetypes and have the ability to have fun with less powerful decks. I tried limiting my builds and it's hard to find the sweet spot; you're either still blowing people out or getting blown out. This is simply because the upper limit of the game is EXTREMELY volatile. Modern let's the game be about progressive board states, and less "oops I win" effects that instantly take the game away from players. If you can convince people to try it, it's a great way to go all in without limiting yourself, as the format keeps everyone in check for you.
You might be right with that hydra/gear swap. But odd you're having issues. SB really helps a lot though and that may be the issue. I've been crushin it on Cockatrice, only losing when I'm lazily watching tv and doing something unoptimal...but in most cases it's been REALLY good. The deck is deceptively more difficult than your average beat down deck, Baiting removal while netting energy and making use of blossoms is key. I throw hellions MB against a lot of random brews because the unoptimized lists generally aren't prepared to go wide enough to stop a 4/4 haster beating them into submission.
Sadly no. After 2 years of cEDH with this deck I retired from the scene when the mulligan rules shifted and moved on to create Modern Commander. The mulligan change was incredibly bad for this deck and altered the cEDH meta in a very bad way (which is not what the RC caters too or should for that matter). In short the mana base was disrupted, many of the niche cards become risky to draw in openers (with Partial Paris you would mulligan away irrelevant matchup cards), and you lost precious space for toolbox because redundancy matters way more (basically you need a deck that's built like a constructed in a singleton now to be top tier).
The version I ran at my last tournament win basically limited the more obscure hatebears and combos, threw in more 1 drop mana dorks, added more cheap removal, and turned the deck into a more linear combo route. Basically the deck is more greedy and all in, versus the stax-nature of this list. This is basically because with Vancouver, no one typically has enough answers in time to stop an all in strategy (including you) and whoever is faster and more consistent wins. The format is simply too volatile and fast to run a deck that embraces diverse playlines.
I hate to make a post like this but it is the unfortunate reality. This deck had an amazing run prior to the mull change. A lot of the theory still stands though as a base, but it needs about 10-15 cards altered to be vancouver compliant. It's still a good deck...but as of now the meta of 2016 is 1-2 color ramp into combo turn 1-4. If a cEDH format emerges and returns Partial Paris (which is absolutely necessary for a 1 round, 99 card singleton where certain colors and strats have a vastly unfair advantage of cardpool redundancy), I'll be back to update this list. I'd say this deck is tier 2 now in cEDH (whereas before I would argue that it was one of the best decks you could build)
However in Modern Commander it is still amazing and is easy to transition to! (moderncommander.com shameless plug!!!)
So had a lot of success on Cockatrice (though that's nothing new with any of the variants of tried) and Tireless seems to be making more sense. In the early aggro meta/control playing 4x Hellion in MB made sense because aggro couldn't out swing you and was forced to block (which is losing against us) and control hates this card...but now that decks are going wide, Hellion is chump blocked too much and Tireless is making more sense. I still really like Hellion in SB against control and Marvel. Against marvel, I basically just lower my curve and rave them now as opposed to the splash blue tactic...which I like but hated the consistency risk and limited SB aspect. GB the Skysovereign works...but I wish I had more hate, that spider is a monster and blossoming Defense can really save their asses.
I think cub's are based on your build. I run 8 2cc removals and 3 blossom's MB. It's very easy for me to clear a path or win a trade turn 3 and begin an advantage. The beauty of the card is that it gives you options. When you pump it can leave opponents in difficult decisions of removing it...do they kill it early to stop it? Wait till you go greedy with pumping? etc... It forces tough decisions because you can gain energy at instant speed or protect it with hexproof for a turn and it'll begin to spiral if they choose wrong. Sylvan is a great constant, but cubs offers utility and punishes opponents for guessing wrong. I have had very little issue with cubs in my games, it has always done well.
This is not a Gigantosaurus (jY-gan-to-saurus)...it's a Giganotosaurus (jig-a-note-o-saurus). Gigantosaurus is a long necked fatty who eats trees. Riot people, they're all misprints! We're missing an "o"
Discuss your plans for a pitchfork mob at Wizards below...
Thread title edited for werds. -- Lugger
I dunno, I'm testing out this snake and it is working as intended the main issue being its own body is unimpressive. I tested Rishkar and that helps a lot though. T2: snek T3: Rishkar...they're now both 4/5's. There's a lot of stong play lines, the question is more how durable it is when answers start coming into play. But cub and snek are insane in test:
T1: Attune (2 energy)
T2: Cub
T3: Snek, Hub (4 energy), use 4 energy and put four +1/+1's on cub, swing for 6, gain energy (3 energy)
As far as Grim Flayer...obviously an amazing card, but without delirium it's unimpressive and energy builds don'r really do that well. It also has no synergy with the rest of the deck beyond hoping for the buff. Early game it will sit as a harmless 2/2 hoping to get through.
Heroic Intervention seems good for SB at least. I updated my list, added drana in and dropped the tireless.
*Also yes I'm obnoxiously calling it Snek and I won't be stopped.
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Winding Constrictor
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
3 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
3 Bristling Hydra
Instant - 11
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Grasp of Darkness
4 Murder
4 Attune with AEther
Land - 20
6 Forest
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Hissing Quagmire
2 Swamp
3 Fatal Push
3 Natural State
3 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Heart of Kiran
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
This version is VERY low to the ground aggro build that focuses on above curve bodies and getting them pumped quickly with snake and triggers. Uncontested, kills turn 5-6 so we'll see how this plays out when answers are present. There's play lines that can let you keep growing without over extending as well.
In SB Fatal pushes help in aggro matches but has flexible uses in other matchups too. Natural State takes care of vehicles and stasis snares. Heart of Kiran helps against control and works fairly well with Hissing quagmire post wipe, the 4 dmg kills many troublesome planeswalkers. Ob nix helps against grindy control matchups similar to chandra. Yahenni's is fairly easy to play around if you plan for it, pumping your creatures safely above 3 def, removing chumpers, and of course the free cast. Demon does much of the same as Yahenni's, but has a bit more versatility as a win con, you'll likely side both.
This can easily go midrange by adding in gearhulks, planeswalkers, and vehicles and likely will be clear which path once it tests against the meta. I'll be testing both versions.
Base Shell:
Ramp/Fixing:
Beaters/Finishers:
Removal and Combat Tricks
Misc Cards:
So I wanna talk about these misc cards as some have MB potential and others SB or potential meta. We have a fairly low curve and we can afford to put in some card advantage to play a game of lots of casting and the potential to rebuild. Tireless Tracker makes a case to return, filling a 3 slot which we don't have a lot of, and now made better with constrictor. The Nissa plays well with out +1/+1 counter theme, but also gives us the ability to go wide and get around chump locks as we don't have a lot of ways to get around that strategy. Yahenni's Expertise is a strong SB choice as we are hoping to grow above the 3 def with most of our beaters and can give us a huge advantage against a Gideon or Ishkanah. Demon of Dark Schemes plays a similar role as a way to combat wide strats and has a 5/5 body and a mechanic that works with our deck, only issue is the 6 cost and ability may be too slow. Still a valid 1-2 of in an SB to consider. Ob Nixilis replace Chandra as our + for card advantage, - for kill a creature. It's a turn slower, but more consistent. This will be a great choice in control matchups to get around wipes and deal with threats that need to die immediately.
I think between these cards it's a matter of mixing and matching to find the right curves and density of roles, but this seems like a strong start. Here's my update list for day 1.
But like I said, my 1st draft needs works. It has it's own engine, but it doesn't have a plan on decks that can chump and board wipe...so testing is needed to figure out what we need. The biggest enemies in the current meta are Gideon, Zombie/spirit reanimator, delerium spider, Fumigate.
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Winding Constrictor
3 Bristling Hydra
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Fatal Push
4 Grasp of Darkness
Sorcery - 4
4 Attune with AEther
Land - 20
4 AEther Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Hissing Quagmire
5 Forest
3 Swamp
Other obstacles of this draft is surviving board wipes and getting around chumping. Heart of Kiran deals with things like gideon. Losing chandra by dropping red hurts our control match up, so not sure what the fix is there ye..
Arlin was cute, but I agree...she felt unoptimal and totally outclassed by Chandra. Aetherworks however doesn't go in this deck. You are better off putting in the card you want to hit with Aetherworks, than gambling with your energy to find it and likely get something below the mana you spent. You need fatties or a major energy engine to justify this card.
I think Pia is great in Copter builds, but only justified as 3 drop redundancy otherwise.
The version I ran at my last tournament win basically limited the more obscure hatebears and combos, threw in more 1 drop mana dorks, added more cheap removal, and turned the deck into a more linear combo route. Basically the deck is more greedy and all in, versus the stax-nature of this list. This is basically because with Vancouver, no one typically has enough answers in time to stop an all in strategy (including you) and whoever is faster and more consistent wins. The format is simply too volatile and fast to run a deck that embraces diverse playlines.
I hate to make a post like this but it is the unfortunate reality. This deck had an amazing run prior to the mull change. A lot of the theory still stands though as a base, but it needs about 10-15 cards altered to be vancouver compliant. It's still a good deck...but as of now the meta of 2016 is 1-2 color ramp into combo turn 1-4. If a cEDH format emerges and returns Partial Paris (which is absolutely necessary for a 1 round, 99 card singleton where certain colors and strats have a vastly unfair advantage of cardpool redundancy), I'll be back to update this list. I'd say this deck is tier 2 now in cEDH (whereas before I would argue that it was one of the best decks you could build)
However in Modern Commander it is still amazing and is easy to transition to! (moderncommander.com shameless plug!!!)
3 Verdurous Gearhulk
Creature (19)
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Tireless Tracker
3 Bristling Hydra
Instant (7)
3 Blossoming Defense
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Attune with Aether
4 Incendiary Flow
Planeswalkers (2)
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Land (20)
4 Aether Hub
3 Cinder Glade
7 Forest
3 Game Trail
3 Mountain
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Galvanic Bombardment
3 Weaver of Lightning
2 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship