Those are fair points. I guess at the very least I'll stop linking to DeckStats ports of my lists in my primers.
Some notes - apparently my WB deck still features some green, and the lands that aren't green are apparently colourless. Also, given the fact that your pie charts are highlightable and clickable and something happens when you click, it'd be nice if it'd, say, bring up that selection of cards or something.
- Rumpy5897
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Dec 16, 2017Rumpy5897 posted a message on MTGSalvation's Deckbuilder is Here!Will there be an easy way to back-port 2-3 years' worth of discussion, change logs etc?Posted in: Articles
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Dec 16, 2017Rumpy5897 posted a message on MTGSalvation's Deckbuilder is Here!I tossed my Daxos primer list up on it for fun, pieces are still green, the order of the cards within sections feels frankly random, all the enchantment creatures went to live with the enchantments. Not sure what's the point of the printing specification, or how to control it when pasting a list (i.e. 95+% use cases of the thing). Not really sure this was needed, in all honesty, given the fact the forums exist and have decks.Posted in: Articles
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I think that the weakest link in your list may be Myr Propagator. It's quite possible I'm not "seeing it", but it strikes me as slow and mana intensive, even when coupled with Kiki/Twin.
I used to run Tetravus, and it would always instil a surprising amount of fear into the opponents' hearts. He's like a wannabe Norin - pings everybody for 6 during your upkeep, but is very sensitive to removal, like all the members of that particular family appear to be. Still drying to decide whether I should try out Thopter Squadron or Pentavus, but they're both mana intensive and would actually like to stay on the board after they touch down. Consarnit
Some Purph lists swear by Tooth and Claw and Spawning Pit, but I noticed I tend to get better mileage if I let my board live. It's always chumps, and people are sometimes not all that comfortable sending something that isn't a 420/420 trampling omnath into a sea of myrs and goblins. I guess Spawning Pit is more versatile, if also more costly - get counters off chump blocking etc.
Thopter Squadron goes infinite the split second it hits the table, assuming Mana Echoes. Myr Matrix takes 15 mana to take off (10 if it's already on the table), pretty much demanding action earlier in the turn, but is less sensitive to disruption. I guess that Thopter Squadron can be used to burn off any excess mana at the end of your turn, turning 2 mana into a ping to the enemy or even potentially sparing some of its +1/+1 counters for flying chumps. Maybe one of these is not a bad idea. Off to gatherer to see if there's any mana-cheaper ones.
EDIT: Nope, Thopter Squadron is the cheapest. You get Pentavus with two more +1/+1's, no sorcery speed limitation and no flying for 2 mana more. Plus, Pentavus makes Pentavites, making the infinite a tiny bit harder
One thing that I noticed with Mana Echoes is that you find yourself starved for red when you try to go off. Maybe running some more colorless stuff like Snake Basket and Myr Battlesphere will help you explode out of nowhere every now and then in yet another fashion.
Also wow, this list is getting tons of views and comments. Maybe if I labelled mine as competitive and didn't say "help" in the title I'd have some attention too
In fact, in the current build I'm testing, I cut Young Pyromancer as he's just a dude and can get offed very easily. Don't your stick-around dudes like Rapacious One run into trouble?
Neat combo with Kiki. The only infinite I found in my version is Ignus + Genesis Chamber + Phyrexian Altar, but I deliberately avoided putting infinites in. I think I'll go try out Ib, as his body may just squeeze in a few extra points of damage if drawn at an unfortunate time.
Yeah, I agree, Knollspine Dragon would be quite lame in this list, as you pretty much need to have Krenko out to draw a respectable card total if you're dedicating 7 of your mana to the dragon. I was thinking more along the lines of Wheel of Fortune.
I assume the infinite Kiki/Changeling loop is popping an extra changeling each turn with Kiki, or is there some infinite hidden in there?
I misread Twinflame and for a moment I thought that you found a 2-cost sorcery Chancellor of the Forge. My enthusiasm has now been dampened I'm liking Overblaze, but it eats a lot of your mana to make it happen, do you still go big after that? Quest for Pure Flame needs to be cut right now as it's horrible each of the Purphoros 2-damage dings is separate, so you're effectively playing a delayed shock with that enchantment.
You sure run a lot of untap toys here, I'd guess mainly for Krenko and possibly Kiki. I really don't get Changeling Berserker. One-off untap with the aid of a sac outlet?
Ib's a really cool goblin, definitely putting him in if I build a Krenko. This guy comes with a huge target painted on him and doesn't reap rewards quite as insane as Krenko in the Purph list. The same goes for the rest of the sac outlets - they're ickle witty creatures that get slugged on the head with a boardwipe, and "help" Purph become a creature. Still, all ideas to consider.
Really looking forward to your lists, should be quite interesting to look at.
After the recent changes the list plays reasonably well. If it doesn't hit mana rocks early it's awkwardly slow, but once Purphoros is on the field all is pretty fine and dandy thanks to the slight curve lowering. Running more mana rocks would be nice, but I think I have most of the low-cost ones (missing Mana Crypt and Mana Vault) and adding something like a Dreamstone Hedron won't help me power out a turn 2/3 Purphoros, will it
I followed your advice on curve lowering, and fit in some land hate that avoids blowing my own stuff up. I need the mana. There's some low-costed goblin generation, which isn't all that great by itself but works nice in conjunction with Krenko. Got rid of all the overcosted winmore and tutor-anythings. I never really used them anyway.
Still unsure if I'm running the right balance of token generation/goodstuff, but I'm really running out of token generation
Aside from Purphoros, the most insane card in the deck is Mana Echoes, which lets you generate absolutely obscene amounts of mana. Yes, it sees creatures entering the battlefield and grants you mana even if it's just a single goblin tutor mook. This card and the fact that the best ramp is colorless (Ashnod's Altar, Thran Dynamo and so on) results in me playing lots of X-costed and colorless only token spells. It's quite possible I was the only guy playing Precursor Golem for a decent amount of time. Be it with or without Mana Echoes, the deck is very rarely short on colorless mana whilst red occasionally needs to be rationed.
There's a plethora of goblin tutors to fetch up Krenko, Mob Boss, a true star with or without Purphoros on the board. If you're feeling cheeky, grab Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and assemble a quick infinite. Flamekin Harbinger gets Grinning Ignus to turn all your red mana into Purphoros activations, or Ingot Chewer for emergency artifact removal. There's a decent chunk of hate cards - Blood Moon, Ruination and company tend to be a pain for multicolor decks, Ensnaring Bridge stops you (or anybody else, for that matter) getting slapped by that 11/11 double striking voltron, Stranglehold needs no explanation...
What's this susceptible to? Soul sisters lifegain. Mass artifact removal. Torpor Orb *shudder*. At its best, the deck is explosive and sequences massive bursts of tokens to instantaneously obliterate everybody else at the table. This typically happens with Mana Echoes out. Another good scenario involves hiding behind Ensnaring Bridge, making getting rid of you quite difficult, and hurling tokens until everybody dies. At its worst, the deck is a shambling mess struggling to do anything at all. This typically happens with an unfortunate influx of high-end spells and not enough ramp.
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
VIP Box
1 Chandra's Spitfire
1 Grinning Ignus
1 Mana Echoes
1 Norin the Wary
Wombo Combo #1
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Skirk Prospector
Wombo Combo #2
1 Dualcaster Mage
1 Heat Shimmer
1 Twinflame
Mana Rocks
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Fire Diamond
1 Hedron Archive
1 Iron Myr
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Sol Ring
1 Star Compass
1 Worn Powerstone
The Goblins
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Dragon Fodder
1 Goblin Marshal
1 Goblin Rally
1 Hordeling Outburst
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Krenko's Command
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Emrakul's Hatcher
1 Firecat Blitz
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Pentavus
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Precursor Golem
1 Skittering Invasion
1 Snake Basket
1 Tempt with Vengeance
The Big Finale
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Mogg Infestation
1 Myr Incubator
1 Quest for Pure Flame
Recycle Your Creatures!
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Spawning Pit
Tutors
1 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Moggcatcher
Draw/Recurring/Utility
1 Commune with Lava
1 Embermaw Hellion
1 Genesis Chamber
1 Impact Tremors
1 Mimic Vat
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Skullclamp
1 Slate of Ancestry
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Chaos Warp
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Vandalblast
Land
1 Buried Ruin
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Kher Keep
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Smoldering Crater
26 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
VIP Box
1 Grinning Ignus
1 Mana Echoes
1 Norin the Wary
Wombo Combo
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Skirk Prospector
Mana Rocks
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Fire Diamond
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Sol Ring
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Star Compass
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
The Goblins
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Dragon Fodder
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Goblin Marshal
1 Goblin Rally
1 Hordeling Outburst
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Krenko's Command
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Emrakul's Hatcher
1 Firecat Blitz
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Pentavus
1 Skittering Invasion
1 Snake Basket
1 Tempt with Vengeance
The Big Finale
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Mogg Infestation
1 Myr Incubator
1 Quest for Pure Flame
Recycle Your Creatures!
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Spawning Pit
Tutors
1 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Moggcatcher
Draw/Recurring/Utility
1 Genesis Chamber
1 Mimic Vat
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Trading Post
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Blood Moon
1 Chaos Warp
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Price of Progress
1 Ruination
1 Shattering Spree
1 Stranglehold
1 Vandalblast
Land
1 Kher Keep
1 Scrying Sheets
29 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
The VIP Box
1 Grinning Ignus
1 Norin the Wary
S.S. & The Mana Rocks
1 Sol Ring
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Star Compass
1 Fire Diamond
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Coalition Relic
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Mind Stone
1 Fellwar Stone
Mana Doublers
1 Caged Sun
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Extraplanar Lens
Lotsa Goblins
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Goblin Marshal
1 Goblin Offensive
1 Goblin Rally
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Dragon Fodder
1 Krenko's Command
1 Emrakul's Hatcher
1 Firecat Blitz
1 Molten Birth
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Precursor Golem
1 Skittering Invasion
1 Thatcher Revolt
1 Snake Basket
1 Tempt with Vengeance
1 Tetravus
The Final Push
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Hellion Eruption
1 Myr Incubator
1 Mogg Infestation
Grind 'Em Up!
1 Goblin Warrens
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Ashnod's Altar
Winmore/Purphoros Subs
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Warstorm Surge
Tutors
1 Ring of Three Wishes
1 Planar Portal
1 Goblin Matron
1 Moggcatcher
1 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Skullclamp
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Trading Post
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Charmbreaker Devils
Hate/Utility
1 Chaos Warp
1 Shattering Spree
1 Vandalblast
1 Price of Progress
1 Stranglehold
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Ruination
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
Land
1 Buried Ruin
1 Kher Keep
1 Springjack Pasture
31 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Buried Ruin
1 Caged Sun
1 Charmbreaker Devils
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Planar Portal
1 Ring of Three Wishes
1 Tetravus
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Warstorm Surge
1 Blood Moon
1 Genesis Chamber
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mana Echoes
1 Mogg Alarm
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Price of Progress
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Goblin Warrens
1 Hellion Eruption
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Mogg Alarm
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Hordeling Outburst
1 Mana Vault
1 Pentavus
1 Quest for Pure Flame
1 Spawning Pit
1 Goblin Offensive
1 Molten Birth
1 Precursor Golem
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Thatcher Revolt
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Mimic Vat
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Price of Progress
1 Ruination
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shattering Spree
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Buried Ruin
1 Chandra's Spitfire
1 Crystal Ball
1 Impact Tremors
1 Iron Myr
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Slate of Ancestry
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Crystal Ball
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Stranglehold
1 Trading Post
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Commune with Lava
1 Dualcaster Mage
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Heartless Hidetsugu
1 Heat Shimmer
1 Precursor Golem
1 Smoldering Crater
1 Twinflame
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Heartless Hidetsugu
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Embermaw Hellion
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Hedron Archive
I run 20 lands, but I have no four-drops and a pretty low curve on the whole. If you use Dungrove Elder as your beatstick with none of the four-drops I see no reason not to.
What do you guys think of the ferocious mechanic? I'm not all that taken by it, as 4 is baloth tier, but we'll see what they roll out with it.