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  • posted a message on Daxos is Baxos
    You could also reintroduce the big mana lands, those tend to work well Wink

    Interesting call to go No Mercy tribal, I've found that particular effect most potently keeps people off my back until they can alpha me out. Which often turns out to be never, as Daxos tends to swarm up a bit and it becomes harder to get through for enough. I'm also liking the Path of God et al. angle, it introduces an element of uncertainty as long as you've got stuff in hand and may deter people from chunking you. Aurification is quite blech though, as it doesn't actually slurp the swingers. It goes away, all its work is undone. I got rid of mine quite quickly.

    I think you're undervaluing Ghostly Prison variants a bit. It might be meta dependent, but regardless of playgroup these styles of effects keep swarm off you effectively. Seeing how you're complaining about curve, Mystic Barrier is a mediocre idea as its quite swingy in terms of returns while requiring a five mana commitment.

    The Michiko Konda and Remove Enchantments seem interesting, do report back how they fare. The latter in particular seems like it might actually be worth a slot. Another class of effects you could explore would be Auramancer variants for recursion.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Advise needed for Daxos The Returned deck
    All those sound commendable. The good thing is that all your new acquisitions are all-purpose, and if you get bored of Daxos they can easily provide great value in other decks or serve as strong trade fodder.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Daxos is Baxos
    Heh, just as I properly acknowledge that the inclusion of Cabal Coffers has been a slam dunk for the deck and the list thrives on bonkers amounts of mana, you back out of using any of the fat lands.

    From experience, an Exquisite Blood is a "kill me" sign, regardless of Sanguine Bond. Any dent to others is lifegain for you, so the natural thing to do is just take you out to make the game progress at a more sensible pace. You don't have True Conviction, I'd just run that instead.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Quote from paragonweapon »
    Out of curiousity, would a The Abyss or Nether Void help out the deck that much or is it too much of a strain on the deck's resources. Is Ethersworn Canonist worth it as a 3rd Rule of Law effect?


    There's no arguing that Ethersworn Canonist is worse than Rule of Law/Dude of Law in the shell, but its actual mileage is quite meta dependent. If you have no mono brown cruising around, or anything crutching too heavily on rocks, the Canonist is going to be okay. In my meta, it would be noticeably worse as one guy somehow built all his decks in a manner that would render him near impervious to the effect (Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer, Marchesa, the Black Rose modular tribal, Mayael the Anima which for whatever reason runs tons of rocks and some other artifacts). The fact that this always slugs us to some degree while potentially leaving a gate open for others to get around it is not super desirable if trying to keep the deck operational in a metagame vacuum.

    Nether Void seems like a high risk medium reward sort of card. Imagine this - you drop Daxos on curve, follow up with the Void next turn, and someone kills Daxos. Ruh roh, now you need to spend eight mana to get him back, and are staring down the Void tax on anything you try to do in the meantime. True, it also stiffs everybody else, but the manner in which it can backfire if dropped on an inadequately mana-rich board makes it rather narrow in when it can be cast profitably. The wording on The Abyss means you have to have your sacrificial lamb ready before it's your turn again, which also makes sequencing awkward to dangerous. I never really considered either, as they cost an arm and a leg, but they seem too risky to merit a slot. Go forth and try them out, probably with proxies if you don't own them already, and see how they do.

    Quote from Tev »
    I don't put Thaumatic Compass in my Ramp suite, I put it in my Draw suite. It's a decent mana sink in the early game when you need to ensure your land drops but it is just a draw engine. Afterwards, it turns into a Maze of Ith that provides mana. That alone gives power, as no one wants to attack me because 'they'll get mazed anyway', so I end up using that colourless on an end step to produce a Daxosman.

    An actual Ramp card would be Dowsing Dagger. That Lotus mana is sweet, especially once you copy it with Thespian Stage or Vesuva.

    If you don't mind pseudo-group hug, Oath of Lieges helps ramp you up. It's a nice rubber-band effect on those who try to explode out lands, like most Green Ramp decks. The best piece is that while everyone might have the same amount of lands because of Oath, your quality is much higher once you bust out Cabal Coffers with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Another way to exploit a more Basic-centric land build would be Terrain Generator.


    Thanks for the feedback. I gave Oath of Lieges a shot, and the results were disastrous. Everybody rubber-banded off each other heavily, everybody else started doing crazy stuff super fast. I played a few games with it against different configurations of opposing decks and was consistently left in the dust. Once again, may just be meta differences. I need to retry Thaumatic Compass, see if the lack of evasion hurts Dowsing Dagger (I'm pretty sure it will), get some more mileage on Conqueror's Galleon. Sadly, they'll all probably just succumb to Thran Dynamo. My Smothering Tithe has been in the mail for two weeks, so I played a game with the old configuration of the list against some friends, and the Dynamo did perfectly okay. No frills, no nonsense, here's three extra mana.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Advise needed for Daxos The Returned deck
    Quote from weltkrieg »
    Has anyone here considered a daxos deck that focuses on death triggers/constellation triggers by using daxos as a source of these with zero experience counters? I have been theorycrafting a daxos the returned that focuses on solemnity to prevent the experience counters. I was thinking of cards like black market (yes, I know there is dis-synergy with solemnity, but very likely I won't see both every game and it's a good card), grave pact and cousins, etc.


    May not come together as easily as described, as the Grave Pacts, Solemnity etc are all enchantments, which will make trying to time them around Daxos awkward when you deliberately want to not get experience. It'd probably be more reliable to go deep on free sac outlets (Altar of Dementia, Martyr's Cause, what have you) and use that as one of the deck's possible modes of operation. That, and the fierce Starfield of Nyx nonbo does what you want as well :p
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Advise needed for Daxos The Returned deck
    I can see what you're going for, the list does seem more cohesive. However, you've still got some weird stuff kicking around. I will never understand your love for those 6cmc wipes that aren't Extinguish All Hope. For whatever reason, you kept those in over Rout. You reintroduced Archetype of Finality yet lost Razaketh, the Foulblooded. A number of sections in my previous posts in the thread still hold true, so you can re-read those if you want. I'll add some more findings from more recent times:
    • Surprise surprise, having a mana sink out of the command zone makes the deck really like its mana. I caved in and put in Cabal Coffers (with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth already waiting in the 99), plus Deserted Temple for overkill. Weathered Wayfarer is now a very serious threat. Let it live a few turn cycles and things are looking pretty good. Splurging for full fetches + Crucible of Worlds is probably overkill though. On a similar note, the consistent land get of Sword of Rampant Growth is not to be underestimated.
    • Another thing that's helped the consistency of my build is more focus on card selection. Sensei's Divining Top crutches a bit on the whole fetches + Crucible setup of infinite money to be a relevant recommendation, but you could easily slot in Doom Whisperer. Skim useless stuff off the top when everything is under control, dig hard for an out if in dire straits.
    • Some other choice recent includes are Smothering Tithe, Cathars' Crusade and Slaughter the Strong. Smothering Tithe keeps you rubber banded to decks that typically slip out the easiest from my build's speed bumps, and can build up to ludicrous levels. Who would have thought that people tend to draw cards in EDH. Cathars' Crusade is a one-card win con, and it helps me feel better about missing experience counters if Daxos gets hated out. It's a beautiful little manifestation of inevitability, even if it comes with some logistics annoyances. Slaughter the Strong is a brutal board gut that Daxos lives through.
    • My meta hates Teferi's Protection by now. A hilarious catch-all answer, most recently won me the game as a simple fog. Dodge board resets, fireballs, whatever is being problematic at the moment. It costs a pretty penny though, thanks to its relative scarcity.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Daxos is Baxos
    How about Cloudstone Curio? It may not be a formal draw engine, but you can bounce enchants off each other to storm up experience, and it also works as a versatile protection piece in case you need to dodge some removal. I know you're not super fond of it, but it does work in my build. However, you just cut two cards I'd qualify as top 10 in my list, so I guess mileage varies.

    I'm curious as to your motivation for including entire nonland space wipes. How have those been working out? I always write off the enchantment space as holy cows and stay away from this sort of effect.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Quote from Nsolarz »
    First off, thank you so much for this decklist. I've been running a slightly budget version of your list for almost a year now with great success. One of the cards im considering adding is Teysa Karlov for the token anthem effect; have you considered this at all? I also added Revel in Riches alongside smothering tithe for the secondary win-con.


    Glad to hear it was of some use Smile I'm not sure Teysa Karlov's token buffs are strong enough to merit a non-enchantment slot. Is it the fact it's a combination of vigilance and lifelink that's tempting? There are plenty of options granting either already, sometimes with cute perks (Brave the Sands, Whip of Erebos).

    As for Revel in Riches, analysed in the current deck vacuum it feels a bit cute. Old me already accused Black Market of being too variable, and in a vacuum this is a sidegrade with a bit more of a downgrade feel to it. However, it has to be said that the occasional end step Rout cheese win could be hilarious. Also, I've been playing a whole bunch of EDH recently, and unsurprisingly the deck's performance is closely correlated to how dumb its mana base gets during the game. An undisrupted Weathered Wayfarer setting me up with all the power lands puts me in a stupidly good spot, and I don't even necessarily need a haymaker to close out the game due to the sheer volume of mana I can sink. In the Command Zone game statistics analysis, the unsurprising conclusion was that the person with the most lands tended to clean house. We might not get to green ramp, but our lands are high impact, and a corollary on mana total should still hold up. Should maximising mana generation be pursued? If so, how?

    The most mana-efficient way would be more rocks. Good return of investment, but susceptible to getting shot out, especially if there's too many of them around. Also, most of the good ones don't offer coloured, which limits their mana sink potential. Land ramp's the most resilient, which is good. However, there's really not that much land ramp left out of the 99 that would make sense to include. Burnished Hart is probably the best, and that got axed in a general fat trimming update a while back. I trialled Thaumatic Compass in the past and wasn't impressed, gave Conqueror's Galleon a spin recently and was also somewhat underwhelmed. Kor Cartographer is a Depression Automaton lookalike that's not quite as cool, Knight of the White Orchid is unreliable. As such, maybe the morbid enchantment options (Black Market, Revel in Riches) are indeed the way to go? I already mentioned old me not being super keen on this sort of effect, but old me was stuck with variably performing versions of the deck. Maybe back then there were more pressing matters to sort out? I guess all this will take some thinking and testing, and not even the previously evaluated options are off the table. Any input would be appreciated.

    Also, as I'm already making a post, may as well leave this little nugget of the nuttest draw the deck ever had for posterity. Think I went first, just to add insult to injury. Also, its absolute nutness was predictably driven by mana, which adds further relevance to my upstream musings.
    1. land, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Depression Automaton
    2. land, Gilded Lotus, Daxos, Land Tax
    3. Thoughtrender Lamia, Smothering Tithe, unison table scoop
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Kumena and the Magical Untapping Fish Sticks
    RNA made a cute thing, let's slot it in.



    In fairness, the Rootwater Diver never really did anything. He was cheap, he had a weird silver bullet clause that never came online, he tapped for Kumena fodder. Benthic Biomancer satisfies those requirements, but trades the silver bullet clause for a loot on counter placement. Hey cool, guess what Kumena does when not just straight drawing? It's a minor quality of life upgrade, but it's pretty cool nevertheless.

    The deck's in a pretty good place right now. It plays pretty smooth, it doesn't get quite as negative a reception as it did a few iterations ago. Darting Merfolk has superseded Surgespanner as Merrow Reejerey's combo friend, but those are still kept in check by needing multiple pieces to do a thing (although they've come together a bit too often in the last few draws, leading to some grumbling). Some part of me wants to just push the pedal to the metal and put Earthcraft back in, aided with Aluren (which performed disturbingly in goldfishing). However, given the deck's current relative strength, that would make it a heavy persona non grata in my meta. I'm pretty content finding weird ways in which all the pieces value town together in unexpected ways sometimes, e.g. a Seedborn Muse + Paradox Engine + Waterfront Bouncer + Mystic Snake soft counter wall that just assembled itself at some point.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Week Two: Voting on Cards to Remove)
    I support Razaketh, Doom Whisperer and Pitiless Plunderer.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Daxos is Baxos
    Welcome back. There's no escape Wink

    It's interesting to see you go for a Grave Pact'y build, with some sac outlets. However, the value the outlets themselves provide isn't the best, I guess you'll agree with me. As such, I'm curious how the thing will hold up in practice. You also appear to be missing the best one of all, Big Ole Raz. Doesn't seem like a conscious omission as you've rammed quite a few tutors and stuff in here now.

    I'm also quite curious about the Conqueror's Galleon. There are so many cool flip lands in that set that I somehow ignored on release. How's it playing for you?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Week Two: Voting on Cards to Remove)
    On a commander specific level, EDHREC is absolute entry level. Pop open Daxos the Returned and see the system in action. The card pool is aggressively polluted by countless lists that just took the precon, swapped a few cards around and dumped it online. There are more lists running Underworld Coinsmith than Skybind, a ridiculous auto-include. Razaketh, the Foulblooded, probably the most game-ending card in my meticulously maintained list, doesn't even show up - all of five (out of over a thousand!) decks registered there run him.

    The top card sections are a bit variable. For example, Naya's all about the dinosaurs because of XLN/RIX dino mania. As such, an argument could be made for reanimating this list here as a manually curated take on the idea. I do agree that it would probably have to be a periodic megavote thing, with my proposal of the system being a per-category vote on inclusions that starts with the current best cards as options, but with the possibility for the voter to add other cards from the category, and cast a total of up to 25 or however many votes. It's not ideal, but this is a bit hard to conceptualise in a practical manner.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    So yeah, the whole set is out. The only non-Mana Study cards meriting some amount of thought are Ethereal Absolution and Font of Agonies. The former kind of reminds me of The Immortal Sun with its kitchen sink design, but I don't feel it's worth a slot here at six mana (especially as the curve's still trying to watch its figure). The latter is pretty cool in Christmas Land, but there's not a whole lot of life-paying effects going on. You'd pretty much need to land Doom Whisperer, Necropotence or Big Ole Raz for this to properly come online, but if you have any of those you're doing just fine.



    As explained in the post above, Mana Study has a very good dynamic going on. If somebody's drawing tons of stuff and running away with the game a bit, the card compensates you handsomely and keeps you in sight of them. The cut is to trim the rock population a little, as for some illogical reason running five rocks feels a lot more vulnerable than four. The deck's in a pretty good spot right now - Doom Whisperer settled admirably, and causes alarm levels akin to a game-ending haymaker upon hitting the board due to his dig flexibility. Possible future directions include the wipes that have been mentioned, or dusting off my mono white hatebear collection (think Aven Mindcensor, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, those sort of guys). However, those would be unpleasant to play against more so than just being throttled on spells per turn or whatever other mild aggravations the deck currently rolls out, so not going to happen. On a similar note, ran the list past Ebline, who decreed that the only real way to make a better Daxos would be to build him pretty hard stax and use the dudebros as fuel for various unpleasantness. I'm quite happy with the flexible, toolbox'y thing that's currently going on. It would be nice if I figured out ways to get some more Daxos independence that doesn't suck with the commander around though.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Forbidding Spirit
    Quote from SnowBunny »
    Like pillowfort decks needed another card to be utter annoying. Oh and in Commander you do have access to Helm of the Host which ensures triggers every turn.


    Might just be me, but you may want to aim a little higher in your Helm duplication schemes :p

    Card is cute, but then you remember Windborn Muse exists. To the bulk pile it goes.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Having gotten two separate playtest sessions in with the thing (about 7-8 games total, with the Mana Study in the opening hand as a replacement of Thran Dynamo), the card has an interesting dynamic to it. In a draw-free vacuum, where the person just topdecks their card for turn and that's that, a point is hit where they get a mana base so sculpted they can afford the 2 per turn and treasure generation is turned off. However, those sort of decks tend to respond poorly to removal and being dribble discarded. The builds that are less fussed by those things are the ones with more pronounced card advantage engines going on. Daxos also has ways of interacting, be it Rule of Law variants or the absolute lack of subtlety of Uba Mask, but they traditionally put up more of a fight as they're just more conventionally powerful. If played against a draw-happy opponent, Mana Study becomes a goldmine more often than not, and keeps delivering the goods late into the game as well. As such, the card acts as a sort of catch-up mechanism against well-rounded opponents, while delivering less value than a mana rock against decks that you don't need as much help against. Interesting!

    As to what to do with the treasures, erfunk has the mechanism down pretty well. Unlike a conventional rock, they just sit there, banking up. If you're just a little short of something, you can crack them, but on the whole I've found myself saving them up for power plays. On one occasion, I amassed 20+ treasure (with ~7 non-treasure mana!) while Intet, the Dreamer and Lord Windgrace got good things going on. In one fell swoop, I made a few extra dudes in the end step, buffed and pumped the team respectably, wiped the board and offered a table kill out of nowhere (which got ultimately blanked by a Constant Mists reveal). Thran Dynamo wouldn't have let me do that :p

    Due to its weird rubber band dynamic that feels like the polar opposite of winmore, I'll probably end up including this.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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