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  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    That's unfortunate, but understandable. It's sad to watch everyone leave Daxos behind though. Think that I'm currently on the third rotation of folks in the thread, it's never quite as ghost-towny as Patron of the Orochi (which has a third of this thread's page count in spite of existing longer). Feel free to stop by any time Wink

    With that said, RTRTR is not contributing anything to the deck. The angel maker is an interesting token side-grade, but I think it hoses too many of the deck's primary synergies basing on the fact that the bodies are enchantments, so I'll give it a pass for now as mentioned before. It's nice to see cards like Crush Contraband, which are solid utility control pieces that should be available to the general populace for a pittance. There will obviously still be a select set of optimal utility spells to run, but it's cool that the backend is diversifying and offering a comparable impact level.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Nice to see you guys back in here Smile It's an interesting side-grade for the tokens, but another thing that would get shot by the metamorphose is Serra's Sanctum, which tends to balloon out of control with spirits. Personally I'll give it a pass for now, but if any of you have success with it I'll be happy to hear about it. Never forget that I initially skipped Anointed Procession :p
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Kumena and the Magical Untapping Fish Sticks
    Let's continue down this direction then!



    The deck was a smidge too tutor-rich for its own good - there were six creature searchers, which is a bit on the heavy side. I can't really axe the general tutors as the power to fetch an untapper is crucial, and Seahunter's reusability makes him fantastic and right at home. I did state that I'm eyeing the ETB fish tutors for cuts, so time to cut them! They came with the secret perk of single-handedly ensuring three fish for Kumena purposes, which was nice. I also surveyed the playgroup for aspects of the list they dislike (I bought a freaking Tropical Island for this list, I need to keep it in good standings with the meta), and they pointed to Mana Drain and Opposition. The list has never been too permission-heavy, opting for cheese cards like Heroic Intervention instead of more counters, so going down to four spell control options in the list with some potential of re-use should be good enough. Meanwhile, actually looking at Opposition made me realise the thing teeters between do-nothing and winmore. If the board is lean, this card has very negligible impact. If the board is super wide and an untapper is around, it starts mauling mana bases in upkeeps and people get mad. However, if the board is super wide and there's an untapper, the odds of you winning the game are pretty damn high without the Opposition to hold the foes' heads below water and piss them off. The card was included in the list to thrive on a mid-size setup, controlling key swingers in a weird defensive manner, but that very rarely happens. Away it goes! Also, curve thinning means Zendikar Resurgent bids farewell. It's a nice card, the draw was cool, the ramp was commendable, but the seven mana price tag is not where we want to be in the end.

    The fish morph into Darting Merfolk and Thrasios, Triton Hero. The former is the embodiment of a nameless fish stick that taps for Kumena abilities, and the self-bounce is occasionally useful (examples include triggering Paradox Engine/Intruder Alarm on the cheap, partaking in Merrow Reejerey + Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx as a Surgespanner proxy, flying out of the way of a wipe). The latter should have been in here since day one, but I have this thing where I dislike running cards that explicitly interact with the command zone as part of the 99. Thrasios coming down on the cheap and offering a mana sink is very nice for the list. Hey, there's nothing wrong with getting even more cardboard from time to time. The remaining slots went towards ramp, helping sculpt a hard to disrupt mana base in line with the game plan. Exploration is synergistic with the draw life the deck lives, as there's usually extra land in hand. Dowsing Dagger has its drawback nullified out of the command zone, and ends up being a flexibly costed Thran Dynamo in land form after a smack to the face. Harvest Season makes a triumphant return. The lower curve fish sticks make popping this for big gains more convenient, and I've found myself having an easier time not being a greed monster and only pulling the trigger once every last body has made it onto the field.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Oh, I was a greed monster and wanted Azor's Gateway for the flip :p Top could be interesting here, you bring up I run the fetches and a bit of library search. Thanks for the tip, I guess I need to see how it plays.

    Hey, if you get value off Shepherd, all the more power to you. I just trimmed the list's curve as it was getting a bit too dependant on its big mana lands. The tweaks did what I wanted - shaved the high end a bit, replacing it with proven low cost options that were in the list previously. The deck runs smoother now, as expected. Blind Obedience is likely gonna get offed the next time the list gets a bone.

    Yeah, Open the Vaults is the immediate budget Replenish, but I've never been a fan of the symmetry. Once again, if the Shepherd works for you, keep it :p
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Kumena and the Magical Untapping Fish Sticks
    A bunch of interpersonal developments within my meta have made fish a considerably less thorny inclusion. I do miss Earthcraft for its utility options, but I am happy about the fact it became a bit harder to combo. The deck is quite happy to assemble a value engine and toss up a smoke and mirrors board presence, draw some cards, pump the team, thwart attempts to kill the fish off, the regular spiel. What helps get there? Low-cost fish sticks with some trace amount of other utility if needed. So let's go in that direction a bit more.



    Empress Galina is a hellishly powerful, but also hellishly dickish option. Theft is probably the most powerful mechanic I have been routinely using throughout my EDH career, but it's quite painful to play against and this list doesn't need to stoop to it to survive. Plus, the bugger costs five mana to field when not being Seahuntered in the end step before your turn to much chagrin. Sylvan Library is a superboss card in most everything Gx, but this deck tends to quite easily set up a pretty decent draw engine that leaves this in the dirt very quickly, making it essentially an early game card. Cold-Eyed Selkie is perfectly fine, but it costs three (butting curve heads with the commander a little) and brings a smidge of draw to the table. If I'm being so critical of high cost and non-commander draw, what about Tatyova, Benthic Druid or Kindred Discovery? The latter draws so many damned cards that it's 100% safe and was one of the motivations for making this decks. The former offers a nice trickle of value independent of the commander or whatever lands other people may be playing. It's fine, and not in danger.

    Time to slot in a bunch of low-cost fish! Rootwater Diver has a rather narrow set of fetchables, but it can be a Mistcaller style silver bullet that taps for Kumena stuff 99.9% of the time. If I decide to experiment with more one-drops, the most likely to be included would be Reef Shaman variants. Mess with opponents' mana, grant your dudebros evasion if a Lord of Atlantis variant comes out to roost. Sea Scryer has been unexpectedly amazing, flexibly offering extra mana or a Kumena ability fish stick as needed. Waterfront Bouncer is a less severe Surgespanner, acting as a decent ETB recycler and defensive rattlesnake. And, guess what, when unneeded it also works for Kumena abilities. Who could have foreseen this! :p

    I'm quite happy with this direction for the deck. Eyeing the four drop ETB fish tutors to slightly increase the variance a bit more while potentially dropping the curve further. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully RTRTR set 2 will bring some neato things.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on "My Threads" link from user dropdown now gives "Not Found"
    I accidentally left an actual link to "My Threads" open on a computer that was asleep for a few days. The actual link that works is nearly the same, there's just no / after new-threads. Just letting you guys know in case this helps spot any of the other stuff that broke.
    Posted in: Forum Software Feedback and Bug Reports
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    I don't know whether these would fit the definition of "interesting" (they probably don't, as you know your way around Daxos), but you pretty much lack every single element I'd call game-ending in my list apart from Skybind and Doomwake Giant: True Conviction, Cathars' Crusade, Thoughtrender Lamia and Razaketh, the Foulblooded. Asymmetric wipes (Toxic Deluge, Extinguish All Hope) shine here too. Another thing that helps in the game-ending department is consistency and big mana. You've got the same big-land setup I've got going, which is very nice. You could consider peppering in the swole rocks (Gilded Lotus in particular is very nice). On the other hand, consistency is aided by tutors, which you are probably not running by conscious choice. Once again, I am pretty darn sure you already know all this. I don't go out of my way to try to figure out kooky wincons as the list is crap enough as is and needs all the help it can get to close anything out.

    On another note, how have you been finding Spirit Bonds? You seem quite keen on the card in the thread.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Quote from Tev »
    If you want to stay away from rocks, there is the Boreas Charger which can be card advantage while ramping. The issue is if someone has more lands than you do; it's also a dead draw late game in my experience. I'm currently contemplating it but it is also competing with Kor Cartographer for a Ramp slot. Considering how good your land base is, you probably don't want either.


    Thanks for further illustrating my point :p Kor Cartographer is probably the better of the two, as you need the Charger to go away to reap the benefits and also be land-short. If land-short ramp is the name of the game, Knight of the White Orchid would like a word for a more reliable option. I love how he's masquerading as a two drop, and a weary cardboard trawler may mistake him for a ramp option they can chase out before Daxos.

    Anyway, in the games I've played since the slimming update, I didn't really feel the absence of the cards I cut while simultaneously avoiding clunking out. Anecdotal evidence! I'm still not super happy about being back to five rocks, but Thran Dynamo has single handedly offered enough mana to smooth out the game, just like predicted.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Quote from plushpenguin »
    It is unfortunate that you need to keep the curve at a decent place, otherwise Overwhelming Splendor is a powerful way to shut down Marchesa robots decks.

    I know because a Daxos deck dropped this on me yesterday. This was AFTER someone wiped + nuked my graveyard of Arcbound Ravager and other things. I bounced back and returned the favor with an All is Dust to wipe the two enchantment players who just hosed the two artifact players.

    I also somehow dealt with an indestructible Rest in Peace and Nevermore on my commander that game.


    My meta's robot Marchesa is nowhere near the power level of yours, it was just an example of me being automatically rammed face first into the ground on sight while another guy set up a juicy little value engine and drew his way to victory. Overwhelming Splendor feels like such a weird include, I hate the card on principle though. Hey, let's take Humility, remove any sort of interesting build-around component and make it cost out the wazoo. Fantastic. Print it. Hyuck hyuck hyuck. The fact it's an eight drop makes me not feel like I'm missing out too much by not including it. Once again, for context, Big Ole Raz is eight. Skybind is five, True Conviction is six. All those feel better.

    The draw was with you a bit in that case - I literally only see three answers in the deck (Meteor Golem, Chaos Warp, All is Dust). Still, that sounds like a painful game.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    A couple of days ago, while idly pondering about Gideon's Intervention, I realised that I'd be better off running Gossamer Chains, a utility crack stuffer I offed in 2016. Plus, I had a bunch of games recently where I clunked out hard and accomplished nothing. Okay, that's enough bloat, time to slim down the list a little.



    The Intervention's secret strength that let it survive in the list was metagaming against a friend's Pestilence + enrage tribal list that could effortlessly consume most of my board states before I'd get to properly settle in. However, the list got abandoned for some reason, and the very softening that led me to swap away from Nevermore in the first place made the card rather suboptimal. I took the opportunity and ran a CMC comb through the higher echelons of the deck, nabbing two swaps. It should be noted both Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Emeria Shepherd perform well, the problem is that the list got a bit on the heavy side. Sunspeth nominally comes with some promise of Daxos independence, but it takes some serious Christmas Land shenanigans to have impact. The Shepherd recurs things really well, and sets up cute stuff with Depression Automaton, but also costs seven. Big Ole Raz is eight. On top of that, Lightning Greaves were in the list as a bit of a meta call. In peak focus times, I'd be forced to recast Daxos for 13 with 2 experience counters and nothing of note whatsoever having happened on my side of the board while the dudebro slinging Marchesa, the Black Rose robots would be drawing cards in everybody else's turns undisrupted. Since then, things have calmed down a bit in the blindly focusing into the dirt on principle department, perhaps in part thanks me to busting out fish as a reminder that Daxos is indeed quite bad.

    The high CMC comb slightly ruffled some other stuff too, but it gets to stay. Sun Titan got new life breathed into him by the introduction of the fetches, putting on a crappy Prime Time impression that's enough to merit survival. Merciless Eviction is quite expensive, but it's not like there are versatile cheap options that this is keeping out of the list. Cathars' Crusade looks unglamorous in this shell, but it does ensure very good board presence on its own regardless of the luck of the draw and can help counteract Daxos disruption. Uba Mask is super powerful with the discard elements, and the scarcity of pieces of this nature mean that its slight over-costing and artifact nature can be lived with. It's a bit of a pity Cast Out is an Oblivion Ring variant, really, but ironically there isn't any better removal that I'm not running already. Depression Automaton is the god of unappealing, but the on-hit ramp and on-death cantrip are both quite welcome in the list and perform better than other underwhelming cards that used to grace the 99.

    Since I'm complaining about the list becoming a bit of a clunker (this manifests itself in particular when no big mana lands or land drop acquisition engines come online), it makes sense to devote a slot towards mana generation. Unfortunately, I had to dip into the rock realm, as there's nothing good land-wise that I'm not already running - Burnished Hart is the best, and that's saying something. Thran Dynamo got unceremoniously booted when I got my hands on a Mana Crypt, but it never really did anything wrong. It single-handedly takes me into the zone of mana where I want to be to start mounting sensible plays together, and the occasional sequencing unwieldiness is far preferable to being stunted on an uncomfortable mana total. Going back up to five rocks is not ideal, but the re-introduction of the Dynamo coupled with the slight curve trim should hopefully stem the clunkiness bleeding at this point. Sunspeth becomes Slaughter the Strong in a swap that should have happened long ago, removing any Christmas Land cuteness from the equation and just offering a blunt board gutter at a negligible mana investment. The two remaining cards are me getting over some sort of weird mental block to avoid running multiple copies of similar effects - Blind Obedience and Attrition were both perfectly fine during their time in the list, and were taken out when marginal improvements were printed, and should be just what the doctor ordered to try to slim the list down a notch.

    In terms of future direction, I keep wishing for more discard room, but there really aren't any options that demand immediate inclusion at this time. Painful Quandary is still underpowered in comparison to what it takes to hold on to a 5-drop slot here, and suffice it to say that Myojin of Night's Reach lost a spot to Big Ole Raz and I'm currently complaining about a bloated curve.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Kumena and the Magical Untapping Fish Sticks
    Quote from MRdown2urth »
    I'd have suggested Rootwater Diver as a 1cmc pick, but you have next-to-no artifacts, so, yeah, that's not a great suggestion.


    Huh, I'll actually give it some thought - being able to recur a Bident, Paradox Engine or even Sol Ring/Sword of Feast and Famine is a pretty decent thing to have. Thanks!

    Slightly off-topic, but given your experience with this deck, I figured you'd be a good person to ask: Switching to Tuvasa seems like it would be a downgrade, right? While she adds white (wraths, enchantment tutoring, Schoolmaster), I think not having constant access to Kumena derails the plan too much. Just wondered your thoughts on tacking on the third color.


    Just because Tuvasa is a fish does not make her a fish commander. She's more like Daxos the Returned - a way to make an enchantment-centric deck have more of an endgame. I guess if you were to go Bant you could go for Derevi as that's more value with the typical evasive fish plan. Does adding white offer enough benefit to offset the loss of Kumena value out of the command zone though?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Kumena and the Magical Untapping Fish Sticks
    The problem with Wake Thrasher is that he's just a gigantic vanilla beefslab with no built in evasion. My interactions with a 20+ power Tishana lead me to believe that just having a ginormous body doesn't solve problems by itself (however, having that body come with a no hand size clause and a fat refill is reason enough to keep her).

    The list has become a touch too combo happy for my liking. Thing is, none of the pieces that come together to result in an infinite are actually explicit combo pieces, they all work well within the deck. One notable class of interactions is Intruder Alarm/Paradox Engine + Earthcraft, the other is Merrow Reejery + Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Both really come together with Surgespanner. You'd think that having four-card combos, with very limited tutoring, would be fine. However, the list's draw is so heavy something usually comes together. As such, I'm depowering things a bit by taking out Earthcraft.



    So why Earthcraft? Intruder Alarm gets dumb amounts of value off other people doing stuff, Merrow Reejery has the decency of being a fish (and a lord to boot), Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx ramps out the wazoo. As such, it's marginally less all-around useful. The other two cuts are just rather weak spots - Vanquisher's Banner helps other tribes a lot, but given the fact pretty much all fish does is lords and draw this is quite redundant at five. Plus, the ridiculous Kindred Discovery still lives and isn't going anywhere. Harvest Season is a bit awkward, as it feels best when cast in a turbo winmore fashion.

    Sword of Feast and Famine is not quite Nature's Will, but I own one and the topic of swords keeps returning to haunt me every now and then. Original drafts of this list, before they even went up on MTGS, had some swords as they play well with Kumena. Those got taken out early in playtesting due to negative reception. Guess what the reception is like now that the list seems to piece combos together just about always? Bit of a lesser evil here, and should hopefully solve the recurring sword issue to some degree (even if Fire/Ice and Jitte remain unused). Cauldron of Souls is a better five mana artifact as it repeatedly shields against wraths (once five fish are hit, you just tap them after they return), including in a less powerhouse fashion early on before critical fishness is assembled. Mistcaller is a decent one-drop, and I could use more serviceable fish. This nominally creates the possibility of ending up with a turn three Kumena as the third fish. Hope that happens some time. I can't think of any other one-drop fish that would actually merit a slot, unfortunately.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Daxos the Returned - Enchantment Speed Bumps Galore
    Depressing financial musings aside, another couple new sets hail down upon us and Daxos gets nothing. While I'd typically just shrug it off as poor fortune or be quite stoked about needed reprints making the deck more accessible, one of the commander decks was enchantment focused and I'm a bit miffed by there being literally nothing new in white that merits even the slightest amount of consideration. Why did they have to add that last bit of text to Coveted Jewel :p

    The deck's in a pretty good place, but I do wonder sometimes if I shot the curve a bit too hard. Other times, I wonder whether I should replace Gideon's Intervention - I've become soft in my old age, and the Nevermore mode is very seldom used (and paying four mana for a faux-Runed Halo is a bit silly). I check my high CMC cards, look at the recursion creatures, ponder if those slots could go to something else, and remind myself that they help smooth performance in the grand scheme of things. Not much else seems trimmable above the commander's cost, and there aren't exactly miles and miles of cool utility stuff waiting to go on. There also isn't any non-rock ramp to slot in, or ways to fetch the big mana lands. Just overzealous nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking, I haven't had anything new to build in a while. Kumena doesn't count as the deck pretty much just built itself. In times like these, I remind myself of when I got a seal of approval from Dominicus for this thing. That's something.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Face Commanders, like, all 4 of them
    The Bant one is surprisingly interesting. You could invest pretty hard in her -1 and go for some proliferation, token copying, and likely ensuing wrath crawl. You could build standard enchantress and use the + as a fuel for all the shenanigans. You could slot in The Chain Veil, slip an aura onto it (even from her own ability), make infinite mana, use the ultimate to blaze through your deck, get back Holistic Wisdom, and in turn use that to set up a hyper roundabout Laboratory Maniac. I'm curious what they did with her in the precon specifically.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Xenagos, the God of Double Damage Beatdown
    Yeah, Disrupt Decorum is cool. However, Xenagod often has a bejeezus sized beefslab on tap main two, so abusing the hell out of that seems preferable. Chandra's Ignition, Blasphemous Act, even lesser stuff like Chain Reaction. Instead of stuff being tapped for a turn, it's dead. Seems better. :p
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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