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  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from Lord Seth »
    I am curious, if it is banned, what will they ban? Faithless Looting and Arclight Phoenix seem to be the only plausible choices, but which one?

    Honestly, probably Manamorphose. No good has ever come from any deck playing that card. The problem is what to do about Dredge too. In my opinion, that should be hit with Creeping Chill, Bloodghast, or Prized Amalgam too. But knowing WOTC, they'll be "super clever" and want to target Looting because it hits both decks and players have been clamoring for it. If they want to do the same thing they did with Pod and Twin, then you hit Arclight Phoenix itself and then tell players with a straight face that similar builds are fine without it.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    If the premise is that it shares a ton of characteristics with Twin, but actually has MORE dominant numbers in line with more egregious decks, then the only logical conclusion is it will be banned. Or Wizards finally tells us that this is just "Who's line is it anyway" where the rules are made up and the points don't matter. And they spit in the face of everyone who has ever bought and played Twin.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Everything is fine. Modern is healthy. No need to comment further, I guess. I need to take a break from this thread...
    Infraction issued for trolling. --CavalryWolfPack
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from gkourou »
    This is not quite Eldrazi winter. Let's not exaggerate. If you want to beat Phoenix or Dredge, there are ways. Just play an interactive deck(for Phoenix, not Dredge). Otherwise, just play a combo or prison and race them and win them. All of those are good strategies against them.

    We heard similar comments during Eldrazi Winter, about how you could just play UW Control and everything is fine!
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from Sabertooth »
    what do you think about an emergency ban? i dont want it, dont get me wrong... but modern seems awful

    I think like GKourou said, there should be no bannings until after we see the effects of Modern Horizons. There's no point banning a card before then when Horizons could actually make that card palateable.
    I guess we just suffer through Eldrazi Winter 2.0 then. Except this time we have a bunch of people telling us this is somehow healthy and great.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Quote from whocansay »
    Oh great, more Twin comparisons. Like Drowsy said, KCI wasn't banned to increase metagame diversity.
    It's not unwarranted. Literally every justification WOTC gave against Twin can be levied against Phoenix. Every, single, one. Either Phoenix is fine, and the criteria for banning Twin was a load of crap. Or Phoenix will be banned at the next announcement.

    Many of us already know that the Twin ban was in part a load of crap Wizards packaged to justify a PT shakeup ban. That's why they changed their ban timing in the future, made some public statements about Modern goals, and have been more conservative with bans ever since. Bringing Twin into this current conversation doesn't really have bearing on the Phoenix situation. TC Delver, DRS BGx, and Pod are all much better examples, given the level of Phoenix performance we are seeing now. The ban announcement is also after the MC, so the shakeup factor isn't even on the table.
    All that does is further support a ban. Do you feel Phoenix should be banned?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from whocansay »
    Oh great, more Twin comparisons. Like Drowsy said, KCI wasn't banned to increase metagame diversity.
    It's not unwarranted. Literally every justification WOTC gave against Twin can be levied against Phoenix. Every, single, one. Either Phoenix is fine, and the criteria for banning Twin was a load of crap. Or Phoenix will be banned at the next announcement.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Finals for GP Tampa are GDS vs Phoenix. Would be fun to actually watch if they had coverage...

    Either way, we have the potential for a clean sweep of Birds for this weekend...

    https://twitter.com/ChannelFireball/status/1107396705459286021
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from Sabertooth »
    4 phoenix in the top 8 of tampa... healthy

    So this gets updated, again:

    Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
    Total GPs: 7
    Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 13
    Avg copies per GP: 1.86 (4, 2*, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
    Winners: 3* (Don't know Tampa results yet)

    Twin in all of 2015
    Total GPs: 8
    Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
    Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
    Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)

    Yep. Either Phoenix gets banned or WOTC are massive hypocrites.

    *It will be a bit sad to see Faithless Looting go if it does. I just used $62 of store credit 2 months ago for 3 IDW Lootings. )


    I know what you mean. I literally just got my foils signed at GP LA two weeks ago.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from Horacus »
    Well, Izzet phoenix is overperforming. Just too good. UR spells was nothing without phoenix 8 months ago. Dredge was a shady mediocre T2.5 deck without Creeping Chill. Looting was not a problem card. The problem are the busted cards they print sometimes, that make unfair decks too damn powerfull. But oh well, let's go with the Looting ban and hit like 5 other archetipes of decks. If we follow the logic of the KCI ban, what has to go is the Chill and the Phoenix. The banning paranoia and the insuficient answears in the format are tiresome in Modern, I hope for better cards in Modern Horizons instead of again banning cards. I slightly prefer Legacy because of stability over modern.

    Relevant post, buried on the previous page:
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    They printed a shape-shifting 2-drop Eldrazi, and suddenly Eye of Ugin was the problem.
    They printed Prized Amalgam, Insolent Neonate, and Cathartic Reunion, and suddenly Golgari Grave-Troll was the problem.
    They printed Become Immense, and suddenly Gitaxian Probe was the problem.
    They printed Creeping Chill and Arclight Phoenix, and suddenly Faithless Looting is the problem.

    Maybe they should stop printing things that get busted free or extremely cheap effects?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Yeesh. Think I'll avoid the Modern Reddits and this Thread for a while. The negativity and tantrums are absurd right now. Not a single good discussion on anything productive in the past week now.

    Could it be because Modern is awful, and anyone claiming the format is healthy is blindly looking at how a bunch of Tier 2 and 3 decks smash into each other and actively avoiding the massive elephant in the room of Dredge and Phoenix UTTERLY DOMINATING EVERYTHING, despite graveyard hate being at such an all time high that, in addition to several sideboard slots, multiple decks are maindecking GY hate?

    Yep. Modern is super great and healthy!
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    From twitter:

    #MTGBilbao Semifinal results:

    2010 World Champion Guillaume Matignon defeats Thomas Rasmussen in an Izzet Phoenix mirror

    Now six-time GP Top 8 competitor Louis-Samuel Deltour (Whir Prison) triumphs over Joseba Garcia (Dredge).

    EDIT: Matignon on UR Phoenix takes down Bilbao

    So this gets updated:

    Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
    Total GPs: 6
    Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
    Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (?, 2*, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
    Winners: 3* (Don't know Tampa results yet)

    Twin in all of 2015
    Total GPs: 8
    Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
    Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
    Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)

    Either Phoenix gets banned, Twin gets unbanned, or WOTC are just massive hypocrites who sold us on a bulls**t banning three years ago.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Phoenix is putting up competitive numbers Twin could only dream of.


    Toxic twin players derailing the thread with their agenda.

    Modern is the best it's ever been.

    edit: /s if that wasn't obvious.

    I was referring to something exremely specific. In addition to the ridiculous Day 2 numbers that Twin never saw, the "competitive diversity" claim is pretty strong. If Twin is the bar, Phoenix is breaking it. If Phoenix isn't breaking it, then Twin needs to come back. Plain and simple.

    Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
    Total GPs: 6
    Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
    Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (2, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
    Winners: 2* (Don't know Bilbao results yet)

    Twin in all of 2015
    Total GPs: 8
    Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
    Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
    Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)


    Yup, agreed completely. Yet there are people telling the twin guys they're obsessed and have an agenda. Every reason cited for a twin ban can be applied wholesale for UR phoenix.

    Does UR Phoenix put up the numbers? Resounding yes for both top 8 performance and play rate.
    Diversity among blue decks? Well GDS, UW, U-moon and UWR combined took 10% less than UR Phoenix this time round.

    UR Phoenix being allowed to continue to exist in its current form when twin remains banned is an joke.

    1 more GP like this and faithless looting 100% needs to go.

    EDIT: FROM CFB, DAY 2 Meta at GP Tampa


    Holy Hell I didn't even know there was another event going on.... Apparently there are THREE concurrent large Modern events, and only ONE (SCG) is being broadcast? Awesome job WOTC.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from metalmusic_4 »
    Kci instead of mox opal, BBE instead of DRS, summer bloom instead of primeval titan.

    This is the idea of tailoring bans to a specific deck with out affecting the rest of the format as much as possible.

    The only ban IMO that flies in the face of this idea is probe because there were a few decks using it to verify they could go for the kill that turn. If we look at the original modern ban list we find some other cards that are staying banned because so many decks would use them, GSZ and a few others. The cantrips like ponder were banned specifically to make combos less consistent, but i think they kinda fit into this too. There is a president for hitting something like faithless looting but I expect that to be WOTC's next move.

    They printed a shape-shifting 2-drop Eldrazi, and suddenly Eye of Ugin was the problem.
    They printed Prized Amalgam, Insolent Neonate, and Cathartic Reunion, and suddenly Golgari Grave-Troll was the problem.
    They printed Become Immense, and suddenly Gitaxian Probe was the problem.
    They printed Creeping Chill and Arclight Phoenix, and suddenly Faithless Looting is the problem.

    Maybe they should stop printing things that get busted free or extremely cheap effects?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Phoenix is putting up competitive numbers Twin could only dream of.


    Toxic twin players derailing the thread with their agenda.

    Modern is the best it's ever been.

    edit: /s if that wasn't obvious.

    I was referring to something exremely specific. In addition to the ridiculous Day 2 numbers that Twin never saw, the "competitive diversity" claim is pretty strong. If Twin is the bar, Phoenix is breaking it. If Phoenix isn't breaking it, then Twin needs to come back. Plain and simple.

    Since Printing Phoenix on 10/5/18
    Total GPs: 6
    Total copies of Phoenix in T8: 9
    Avg copies per GP: 1.5 (2, 2*, 2, 1*, 2, 0) *Win
    Winners: 2* (Don't know Bilbao results yet)

    Twin in all of 2015
    Total GPs: 8
    Total copies of Twin in T8: 10
    Avg copies per GP: 1.25 (3*, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1*, 0) *Win
    Winners: 2 (vastly different builds, nearly a year apart)
    Posted in: Modern
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