I've played tje BWR mardu midrange deck, I'm thinking about trying this one. I already played it once with pack rat. Right now, is there a good version of this deck without dark confidant's? I'm kind of on a budget. ahah
We play BW midrange deck (aka deadguy ale) who play 4x Pack Rats widout any doubt. Ofc is not a card who can be played in all black decks, but with our strategy is the perfect wincon. I know a lot of people who can't belive at his eyes loosing from it and i'm really enjoing make it shine in the format!
I'm playng it in mio UWR midrange.
It's a grate choise and that life loss is payble for 2 card in instant speed.
I'm not sayng that Vortex is strong...not after Cruise and Dig, but is the grateest draw spell in that colors. I'm considering Telling Time also, but drawing 2 in instant speed is something you can't do most of the time. Test it, you will like it.
Are you playing brimaz?
Played with my deck again and yes.. pack rat is a safe spot dark confidant is also fine for me
I'm not on Brimaz even if...i'm considering it but still that duble WW make me uncofortable with the idea: we run a lot of colorless (7 in my case) and ca be trichy because i must have duble black on T3.
In that spot i run soulflyer (strange chiose, i know, but i'm really sold on him, because i can delve baron and vampire nighthawk making them enormus).
About draw engine i'm of course on Phyrexian Arena: my curve is to intensive for using bob, and since i'm testing widut liliana, T3 arena became a strong chiose.
I know, my build is not the same as others, but works grate
I've cut out Baneslayer long ago for 2 bloodbaron of vizkopa. They works grate: you don't fear anymore path to exile or slaughter pact (terminate, pulse, ofc decay, doomblade etc). Only duble bolt but...if you use two resources on mine card i'm just happy!
About Pack Rat: he is insane. Only thing to fear is malestorm pulse, but is a 1x in only one deck. He is really strong on my opinion.
I did thought about it, but it doesn't seems interesting.
Removing "most" creatures doesn't work, as this means they will all die to removal. Right now between sculler, rat and bob there is many important target, so some dies (often bob) but the others can stick a bit. So for me it's all or nothing. Plus the bob + rat synergy is awesome.
Next reason is: why not play Esper control then? I just seems much more stronger: card draw, cryptic, esper charm, manlands...
So, while I would love to play a BW control deck, I guess it's not in a good position. But I'm a poor deckbuilder, so maybe I'm just blind and not seing how to make it work^^
By the way Paghus I'll be very interested in your liliana-less list^^
Control is not well placed right now... I'm convinced with Midrange in this days, at least on my local meta full of trons. BTW I'm going to test on a tournament tomorrow night, 30 person ish, and then after consideration I'll make some adjustment for posting the list. I've already tryed in some Mu (Hatebears) and went amazingly but don't count because liliana was a bad card with gw bears... I'll make you guys now some news!
Control is already favorite MU and not (only) because of Liliana. Without is still good
Timely Renforcment is a Side card, i'm looking a main plan. G2 i have more answers, between board swipers and ghostly prision.
Just to be clear: liliana don't need to be exaltated, i've already said that she's by far the best PW in modern. I'm just tryng something different, don't trow me tomatoes just for some test i want to share with this comunity
I understand there is a tension between Lili and Rat, but I have never felt like it's that bad. They both want us to operate with no cards in our hand. Active Rat just lets us turn those discards into more Rats before we plus Lili. With that being said, I am curious about your results as I've never tried to run the list without her.
I've noticed that lilly's prescence forced me to several bade chioses...she's discard and removal, plus a grate ultimate, widout any doubt one of best walkers ever printed, but not strong as in other decks: we already have an inensive self-discard engine (pack rat), and the statement that he can't be used in T2 is not entirely correct, infact 90% of our T1 are Seize or IoK, making rat ways a lot easyer. If is not, we have a T2 sculler who take removal or discard one. After this, Rat is the obvious choise: i finded myself in a late-game situiation: topdeck because of a removed liliana: pack rat is what i wish for every top deck in my life, but an empty hand...other tourn Drawing a strong card, but forced between coping rat or using it...not so strong.
My theory is that we have grate MU with combo and control...and lossing 3 lilly don't change this.
Instead aggro is a awfull mu. Against aggro Lilly is a 3 cmc sorcery speed removal...who die a turn later. Insted Sorin make lifelink blockers while charging the ultimate who is grate because remove 3 trehats from the game giving us the control. If we need a finsher, lingering + emblem give us a awsome clock. He's good .
other slots are in testing, i like the idea of Vampire Nighthawk: help with aggro, i'm good if he takes removal because the main reason is Delving it with my Soulflyer. Just not quite sure about CMC 3. I liked the idea of using Knight of Meadowgrain instead, but duble W W scares me....between land denyal, mutavaul and vault of the archngel i run a lot of colorless...
That's something I've always struggled with. I've tried running disfigure and darkblast in the main, but they aren't great and they weaken our game ones against the midrange decks. It may sound silly, but mana tithe has been my favorite tech for those matchups, either countering something or forcing them to slow way down to get us to our mid-game plan. I still can't help feeling like there is something better though. Harm's way is another consideration, but it doesn't seem ideal. I could see the 4 scullers main in the list above as a way to be super disruptive early and have bodies to soak up damage.
I'd love to hear some other thoughts on it.
Still i'm not quite sure...dark blast remove just small things itself, except in the self-mill case, and even that only if we can draw something. Is unlikely remove something with Cos 3 or more. Meybe Zelous Persecution can be better, but how manys? 1x will be an invisible card for the rest of the game; 2x maybe?
I've considered to try Wrath in main...2 slots can be the deal but still i think that can be a danger with lingering, sorin's token, scullers etc etc.
Sadly Scullers are only 2-drop for this situation: bobs (i run arena honestly and i love it after several bob's test) aren't block material (we want keep them alive); Pack Rat on T2 it's almost always a waste of mana and resources (except a T1 discard who revealed an hand withdout removal...in that case can be a thing). Sculler it's the only body we can use for block...mmmh.
Damn aggros... =_=
This might sound crazy/difficult on our mana base, but has anyone tried Knight of Meadowgrain? It shuts down some aggro, forces infect to use pump spells before first strike damage and with all our removal, isn't a terrible attacker. Late game we have the luxury of pitching her to rat or Lili. It might be too cute, but wanted to throw it out there.
I thinked about her...and honestly i'm not sure that i can afford to provide W W on T2 when i will need for sure BB in T3. She is an interesting card and surly a good CMC 2 drop but i'm not entusiast about that W W :S someone already tried?
That's something I've always struggled with. I've tried running disfigure and darkblast in the main, but they aren't great and they weaken our game ones against the midrange decks. It may sound silly, but mana tithe has been my favorite tech for those matchups, either countering something or forcing them to slow way down to get us to our mid-game plan. I still can't help feeling like there is something better though. Harm's way is another consideration, but it doesn't seem ideal. I could see the 4 scullers main in the list above as a way to be super disruptive early and have bodies to soak up damage.
I'd love to hear some other thoughts on it.
Still i'm not quite sure...dark blast remove just small things itself, except in the self-mill case, and even that only if we can draw something. Is unlikely remove something with Cos 3 or more. Meybe Zelous Persecution can be better, but how manys? 1x will be an invisible card for the rest of the game; 2x maybe?
I've considered to try Wrath in main...2 slots can be the deal but still i think that can be a danger with lingering, sorin's token, scullers etc etc.
Sadly Scullers are only 2-drop for this situation: bobs (i run arena honestly and i love it after several bob's test) aren't block material (we want keep them alive); Pack Rat on T2 it's almost always a waste of mana and resources (except a T1 discard who revealed an hand withdout removal...in that case can be a thing). Sculler it's the only body we can use for block...mmmh.
Sadly I left my Revelation out of my 75...
Way too slow even in those really long games (My build is not full-control but control oriented with 11 counters, 3 cryptics but Gaists in MD).
I'm tryng Crebral Vortex...i suppose is better then Think Twice; still sucks after some DTT month.
BTW i love the idea Hindering Light can be a thing, but i use to play in my UW control side long ago and too many times is a dead card...too bad tohug.
About CMC 3 counters, is not mass myopia, before i have Cryptic i use to play some 3 cmc counters...and just they're a single card who make just something.
I've always discovered that if i need some hard counter it shoud be at 2, and currently only deprive can fill that spot, because colonnade ability require 5 mana's...if we want to protect him, we need 7 with CMC 2... 8 with CMC 3, and it's just too much.
Has anyone experimented with Elspeth, Knight-Errant recently? I have been playing a bant deck the past few weeks with mana dorks, a bunch of three drop beaters and her and it was pretty explosive. I want to try to pull the synergy between geist and elspeth into the UWR deck, but I am unsure if she will be consistent enough with less creatures to jump in the deck. She makes her own tokens that I can jump the next turn, but I feel like that it might be too slow if I don't already have a guy out when she comes down. On the other hand, against some decks curving geist into elspeth is essentially a win.
Below is the list I am considering to play in my next event. a couple of my sideboard choices are unusual, but this upcoming event is a league playoff and the format is best of 5. I already know my first round opponent and have a good idea of what he and my potential round 2 opponents will be playing, so my metagame calls are reflected in the decklist here.
My idea is that I am aiming to race game 1 with burn, geist, elspeth and hellkite while having the option to shift into a kiki-resto combo control deck post board by bringing in kiki, revelation and cryptics. I feel that normally this strategy would not be worth it, but in a best of 5, many more games will be played with sideboard, so I feel that the transformation may be valuable.
I'm curious to see what you guys think about this tentative list. Is Elspeth worth the slots? Is the Kiki, Cryptic and Revelation package too much to have in my sidebaord?
I'm Running 2x Elspeth too and i belive that she is insane: she provide time with aggro, make her token really big and with Gaist... our oppo has a 2 turn clock.
I've tried with only 1 elspeth and widout her too, i always fill her in again.
I'm running 3 cryptic too. They're good choise all the time.
Use phyrexian arena
We play BW midrange deck (aka deadguy ale) who play 4x Pack Rats widout any doubt. Ofc is not a card who can be played in all black decks, but with our strategy is the perfect wincon. I know a lot of people who can't belive at his eyes loosing from it and i'm really enjoing make it shine in the format!
It's a grate choise and that life loss is payble for 2 card in instant speed.
I'm not sayng that Vortex is strong...not after Cruise and Dig, but is the grateest draw spell in that colors. I'm considering Telling Time also, but drawing 2 in instant speed is something you can't do most of the time. Test it, you will like it.
I'm not on Brimaz even if...i'm considering it but still that duble WW make me uncofortable with the idea: we run a lot of colorless (7 in my case) and ca be trichy because i must have duble black on T3.
In that spot i run soulflyer (strange chiose, i know, but i'm really sold on him, because i can delve baron and vampire nighthawk making them enormus).
About draw engine i'm of course on Phyrexian Arena: my curve is to intensive for using bob, and since i'm testing widut liliana, T3 arena became a strong chiose.
I know, my build is not the same as others, but works grate
I've cut out Baneslayer long ago for 2 bloodbaron of vizkopa. They works grate: you don't fear anymore path to exile or slaughter pact (terminate, pulse, ofc decay, doomblade etc). Only duble bolt but...if you use two resources on mine card i'm just happy!
About Pack Rat: he is insane. Only thing to fear is malestorm pulse, but is a 1x in only one deck. He is really strong on my opinion.
Control is not well placed right now... I'm convinced with Midrange in this days, at least on my local meta full of trons. BTW I'm going to test on a tournament tomorrow night, 30 person ish, and then after consideration I'll make some adjustment for posting the list. I've already tryed in some Mu (Hatebears) and went amazingly but don't count because liliana was a bad card with gw bears... I'll make you guys now some news!
Timely Renforcment is a Side card, i'm looking a main plan. G2 i have more answers, between board swipers and ghostly prision.
Just to be clear: liliana don't need to be exaltated, i've already said that she's by far the best PW in modern. I'm just tryng something different, don't trow me tomatoes just for some test i want to share with this comunity
I've noticed that lilly's prescence forced me to several bade chioses...she's discard and removal, plus a grate ultimate, widout any doubt one of best walkers ever printed, but not strong as in other decks: we already have an inensive self-discard engine (pack rat), and the statement that he can't be used in T2 is not entirely correct, infact 90% of our T1 are Seize or IoK, making rat ways a lot easyer. If is not, we have a T2 sculler who take removal or discard one. After this, Rat is the obvious choise: i finded myself in a late-game situiation: topdeck because of a removed liliana: pack rat is what i wish for every top deck in my life, but an empty hand...other tourn Drawing a strong card, but forced between coping rat or using it...not so strong.
My theory is that we have grate MU with combo and control...and lossing 3 lilly don't change this.
Instead aggro is a awfull mu. Against aggro Lilly is a 3 cmc sorcery speed removal...who die a turn later. Insted Sorin make lifelink blockers while charging the ultimate who is grate because remove 3 trehats from the game giving us the control. If we need a finsher, lingering + emblem give us a awsome clock. He's good .
other slots are in testing, i like the idea of Vampire Nighthawk: help with aggro, i'm good if he takes removal because the main reason is Delving it with my Soulflyer. Just not quite sure about CMC 3. I liked the idea of using Knight of Meadowgrain instead, but duble W W scares me....between land denyal, mutavaul and vault of the archngel i run a lot of colorless...
I'll let you guys know BTW
I'm testing Sorin Lord of Innistrad and 2 other cards. Let's see how is it going.
I thinked about her...and honestly i'm not sure that i can afford to provide W W on T2 when i will need for sure BB in T3. She is an interesting card and surly a good CMC 2 drop but i'm not entusiast about that W W :S someone already tried?
Still i'm not quite sure...dark blast remove just small things itself, except in the self-mill case, and even that only if we can draw something. Is unlikely remove something with Cos 3 or more. Meybe Zelous Persecution can be better, but how manys? 1x will be an invisible card for the rest of the game; 2x maybe?
I've considered to try Wrath in main...2 slots can be the deal but still i think that can be a danger with lingering, sorin's token, scullers etc etc.
Sadly Scullers are only 2-drop for this situation: bobs (i run arena honestly and i love it after several bob's test) aren't block material (we want keep them alive); Pack Rat on T2 it's almost always a waste of mana and resources (except a T1 discard who revealed an hand withdout removal...in that case can be a thing). Sculler it's the only body we can use for block...mmmh.
Damn aggros... =_=
Way too slow even in those really long games (My build is not full-control but control oriented with 11 counters, 3 cryptics but Gaists in MD).
I'm tryng Crebral Vortex...i suppose is better then Think Twice; still sucks after some DTT month.
BTW i love the idea Hindering Light can be a thing, but i use to play in my UW control side long ago and too many times is a dead card...too bad tohug.
About CMC 3 counters, is not mass myopia, before i have Cryptic i use to play some 3 cmc counters...and just they're a single card who make just something.
I've always discovered that if i need some hard counter it shoud be at 2, and currently only deprive can fill that spot, because colonnade ability require 5 mana's...if we want to protect him, we need 7 with CMC 2... 8 with CMC 3, and it's just too much.
I'm Running 2x Elspeth too and i belive that she is insane: she provide time with aggro, make her token really big and with Gaist... our oppo has a 2 turn clock.
I've tried with only 1 elspeth and widout her too, i always fill her in again.
I'm running 3 cryptic too. They're good choise all the time.
Any main deck idea?