Hi there!
First i'll consider Abzan Charm: is versitile, can save you creatures from bolt, can exile and make you some extra draw.
Scooze is for sure solid choise! I love anafenza too and i'm playng 2x, same for tasigur.
3x dismember is too much...think about it; same for hero's downfall.
About elspeth: i'm using new sorin wich is awsome; if you can afford duble W try the khint-errant: she is amaizing!
1) I know that Tarmogoyf can't be replaced, and i know what ai want in that spot: ATM i'm on Pack Rat and i love it...but not in this deck. This "junk" impression was actually a G splash for my deadguy's ale, but suddenly became something more. Pack Rat fits amazingly in BW midrange, with Mutavalut and stuff, but not quite here apperentrly; I need a 2 drop who can make preassure: if you dont' deal immediatly with it can create problems. Quirion Dryad -> i'm quite amuze by this. If opponent won't bolt/terminate/path/etc she grow big widout efforts...allowing me to procede with my plan. If she get removed, is a less removal for Rhino, Anafenza, Lingering, etc...if she don't, she grow...too bad she is a lost top deck in late game or with an empty hand. This make me think about Skinshifter, overral worse, can be bolted in response ... but a lot better in late game. With Discard on T1 can be played safely...but again, he require G every turn, and make your T3 worse, counting that i have a lot of 3 drop.
On the other hand Pack Rat is the best top deck you can make in Late, but almost usless in T2; in Bw append that you can safely play t2 rat and copy by 3° turn or swinging for 4 damage wiht Mutavault, but sems unlykley here. I need some advice and suggestion. Any idea?
2) About Phyrexian Arena and Abzan Charm: Arena won me a lot of games and i really love her, but i was thinking that i can fill other 2 Charms and saving 1 slot for 2° Anafenza or the 4° Path of 4° 2CMC drop...what do you guys think?
3) I miss a lot Blood Baron of Vizkopa, do you think can fill him in MB or is better sideboard card?
Thnx for the attention and i'm wating for your opinion guys!
I think thtat the spirit of this forums is doing thing on budget: on Junk primers ther's a big fat red advise: do not discuss budget alternative/choises here, do it in budget forum. If we can't discuss on budget here we can't talk about it at all. So ofc replacing 80 euros of liliana is sub-optimal, it's not a mistery. We're here to reduce sub-optimal more than we can, not to suggest to play other Tier 1 or 2 decks just because cost less
Unfortunately, that's not an option for me right now. I can't spend money to build a deck, and than spend more money to build something else. It's just not feasible for my budget. What if I just ran ton of discard to make up for the lack of card draw? Sin Collector, Duress, Despise, and Tidehollow Sculler sounds like a good start. I have mono red together, but I really want to try something new. A year of just mono red has really gotten me bored woth the deck.
Phyrexian Arena -> Dark Confidant (and save a lot of money. I'm using Arenas for budget reasons and i'm quite satisfied. Or...you can try Pain Seer. With a decent disruption can give you a Confidant impression. You must clean the field of course;)
Discard options -> IoK and TS are both quite expensive; if you can't effot play a full playset of Tidehollow + a split of Duress and Despise.
Fetch -> or Khan's fetch that are good too. Or Pain Lands: Koilos Caves are really cheep right now.
Shocklands are not optional i guess. You can run Isolated Chapel instead of filters thogh
Let's Talk about aggro: if you use Arena or Sign in Blood (FYI i love arena over Sign), you can use widout fear Tasigur (or gurmrag angler for budget reasosn) in multiple copies: i run 2 tasigur and 1 gurmrag + 2 Bloodbaron of Vizkopa. Same agrument with 2x Sorin and 1x utter end (sometimes really usefull, like keranos, blood moon, Vedalken Shackless, Cranial Plating etc...).
And budget or not our Pack Rat is areally cheep card you're good with aggro.
Ofc i'm not sayng that is batter this way, i'm sayng that works for me using Arena. You will find a lot more frustrating in discard choises than card advantage engine. I guess at least you shoud consider IoK ...:S
I kind of agree on Anticipate: in this deck i like more EOT Anticipate than lose 1 mana to serum. Meybe you need to serum on t2 to prepare t3 land drop, tapping out ? Naaah better looking for stuff in end.
About think twice question...i'm not sure. It's true that he provide card advantage. Worth a try i guess.
Would you guys sideboard Utter End if Ugin, Karn, Ahiok and Gideon show their mugs often in your meta?
I considered Hero's Downfall but Utter End has much more potential utility where Downfall would be notthing but Murder most of the time.
I'm on utter end. Can help as 1 of, i like it honestly even if 4 mana are a lot.
Btw an opinion: i'm feelinf 2 Bloodbaron are too manys. 1x can be a good idea?
Liliana is the most powerful planeswalker. There's a reason why she's the most played in both Modern AND Legacy.
You're having relevant results without her and Bob because you modified your deck entirely and therefore attack the metagame from a different perspective. This doesn't mean you build is better, it just means it's more effective in your particular metagame.
That's the magic of midrange. You can change a couple cards and become a different build that has to be fought from a different perspective, and often, that is more than enough to defeat a hostile metagame.
Hell we can turn into tokens changing less than 20 cards and attack the meta from a completely different archetype.
Never said that my build is better, is just ok for me and my meta. Just i belive that some player understimate sometimes cards just because another one. There is a differene between unplayble or little better o little worse.
Saiyn that Liliana is the only reason to play this deck is a big missunderstanding of this archetype: liliana is 2° best walker ever printet, but not a staple of this deck according to Craig Wescoe: i've played with both (wiht and wothout) and she's strong but not a staple for deadguy ale, and not playng her can be a choise too.
About Bob is different: exacly as you said i've changed the deck around my ideas and testing. Just because is different don't mean is worse, or good. Maybe equal.
Anyways, as i sad before i give my personal opinion on the deck, can be bad ideas according someone, but i'm hoping someone can see the effort beyhond critics
My two cents on things :
1) for budget (and more) reasons I'm testing widout Lilly. Believe it or not I didn't miss her so much ; is a threat, yes, but also sometimes make my rat much worse (don't have cards in hand and topdeccking rat becamed two slow) not playing her hallowed me to use phyrexian arena... Guys is not too slow. Bob came one turn earlier but die from everything, including elettolyze that make him a waste of mana. Rarely I've lost with arena in play,and I can have all cmc 4 and 5 drops I desire, with delve cards too.
2) vampire nighthawk : helps a lot in aggro metas, o like him and I'm currently on 2x in main also cool with soulflayer delver strategy I'm on (happily). But 3 mana are a lot.. . I'm thinking about gatekeeper instead... They are legs edict and since I'm testing a sword too. .. Can be a good idea? Thoughts?
3) Percy is nice and I see him with bobs, ok, but I honestly prefer classic hitter. Of with bobs 3 tasigur /frog /flyers can't be played.
4) tidehollow : he is really a necessary evil... there's no better cmc 2 drop actually for us... But he have positive upsides
I'm sure that we will never obtain a better T2 than tidehallow: for sure we will not see a stron 2 drop in black or white about T4 i'm not sure we havn't: Sorin # 1 and 2, Elspeth, Restoration Angel for those who like blade splicer...and all delve card: banaman, fron, soulflyer, etc
2-0 vs Abzan
2-0 vs Grixis Twin
2-1 vs Burn
2-0 vs Gixis Delver
God bless Rest in Peace, it ruined 3/4 of my opponents' lives.
Also, people are extremely prejudiced and arrogant about Abyssal Persecutor, the Delver player literally asked me "And how do you expect to remove him through my counterspells?" with my Lilly at 5 on the field.
Combo will rise more and more if Wizard wont give some strong control choise.
I'm an unhappy Uwr control/midrange player who decided to play Twin untill wizard understand that this fear of blue spell is hurting the meta.
BGx decks are toolboxex but they can't simplify Mtg in: BGx vs All, they must understand that some people just want to play control/counterspell strategyes, and this will halp with "auto-win"strategyes also.
Until this silly fear will strike R&D we will see people combo off and abrupt decays eveywere
Won against BW Tokens and All In Twin and lost to Elves and Grixis Twin.
Jotun Grunt: still completely happy with this guy as a 2-of
Wrath of God: I would prefer Damnation but *** has a much nicer price tag. However, I never had problems casting it since WW is not really an issue on turn 4+.
Archangel of Tithe: It's quite powerful but I don't think it's for this deck. Triple W is really hard to get and the abilities are not that good for us. I think Resto is much better in this deck.
I realised I have the most trouble with fast aggro decks so I'll try swapping Blade Splicers with Kitchen Finkses. Hopefully that should improve those matchups.
Also, I'm intrigued with the idea of playing a sword or two. Have you guys tried any swords? Which ones? How did they perform?
I use to play 2 Sword of War and Peace in my previous build with 3 Mirrain Crusaders, but latledy i went for delve reatures and cut Swords too.
Now i'm tryng singleton of War and Peace, i like procetion from Bolt and Path, and lifegain + damage is exactly what i want to do. Just i belive is a bit slow, but can make lingering/sorin's token a siriuos danger so...i'll try and make some report.
I think modern blu-based control decks (BLUE, to don't uspet pro-active/re-active players who want to be considerated control players) will be fixed with good draw engine.
Counterspell will be extraordinary but is a unprobable reprint. Dig resurrected UWR at that time and i belive that a more fair (was too strong, i'm sure about that) will give us new life. Something strong enough to compete with T1 - IoK or TS. CMC 2 instant speed draw 2 cards? I'm exagerating?
About counters...there are decent cards like Logic Knot or Deprive. Ofc i'll love counterspell but i dont' feel the late-game counter lack, i feel the need of findig answers.
First i'll consider Abzan Charm: is versitile, can save you creatures from bolt, can exile and make you some extra draw.
Scooze is for sure solid choise! I love anafenza too and i'm playng 2x, same for tasigur.
3x dismember is too much...think about it; same for hero's downfall.
About elspeth: i'm using new sorin wich is awsome; if you can afford duble W try the khint-errant: she is amaizing!
1 Anafenza, the foremost
1 Gurmrag Angler
2 Tasigur, The golden Fang
3 Scavenging Oooze
3 Pack Rat
3 Siege Rhino
Enchantment
3 Phyrexian Arena
Instant
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm
1 Dismember
3 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstorm Pulse
Lands (23)
2 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Temple Garden
Ok here's the questions:
1) I know that Tarmogoyf can't be replaced, and i know what ai want in that spot: ATM i'm on Pack Rat and i love it...but not in this deck. This "junk" impression was actually a G splash for my deadguy's ale, but suddenly became something more. Pack Rat fits amazingly in BW midrange, with Mutavalut and stuff, but not quite here apperentrly; I need a 2 drop who can make preassure: if you dont' deal immediatly with it can create problems.
Quirion Dryad -> i'm quite amuze by this. If opponent won't bolt/terminate/path/etc she grow big widout efforts...allowing me to procede with my plan. If she get removed, is a less removal for Rhino, Anafenza, Lingering, etc...if she don't, she grow...too bad she is a lost top deck in late game or with an empty hand. This make me think about Skinshifter, overral worse, can be bolted in response ... but a lot better in late game. With Discard on T1 can be played safely...but again, he require G every turn, and make your T3 worse, counting that i have a lot of 3 drop.
On the other hand Pack Rat is the best top deck you can make in Late, but almost usless in T2; in Bw append that you can safely play t2 rat and copy by 3° turn or swinging for 4 damage wiht Mutavault, but sems unlykley here. I need some advice and suggestion. Any idea?
2) About Phyrexian Arena and Abzan Charm: Arena won me a lot of games and i really love her, but i was thinking that i can fill other 2 Charms and saving 1 slot for 2° Anafenza or the 4° Path of 4° 2CMC drop...what do you guys think?
3) I miss a lot Blood Baron of Vizkopa, do you think can fill him in MB or is better sideboard card?
Thnx for the attention and i'm wating for your opinion guys!
Phyrexian Arena -> Dark Confidant (and save a lot of money. I'm using Arenas for budget reasons and i'm quite satisfied. Or...you can try Pain Seer. With a decent disruption can give you a Confidant impression. You must clean the field of course;)
Discard options -> IoK and TS are both quite expensive; if you can't effot play a full playset of Tidehollow + a split of Duress and Despise.
Fetch -> or Khan's fetch that are good too. Or Pain Lands: Koilos Caves are really cheep right now.
Shocklands are not optional i guess. You can run Isolated Chapel instead of filters thogh
Let's Talk about aggro: if you use Arena or Sign in Blood (FYI i love arena over Sign), you can use widout fear Tasigur (or gurmrag angler for budget reasosn) in multiple copies: i run 2 tasigur and 1 gurmrag + 2 Bloodbaron of Vizkopa. Same agrument with 2x Sorin and 1x utter end (sometimes really usefull, like keranos, blood moon, Vedalken Shackless, Cranial Plating etc...).
And budget or not our Pack Rat is areally cheep card
Ofc i'm not sayng that is batter this way, i'm sayng that works for me using Arena. You will find a lot more frustrating in discard choises than card advantage engine. I guess at least you shoud consider IoK ...:S
I've already thinked about it, but having 6+ draw spell make good even think twice...=_=
About think twice question...i'm not sure. It's true that he provide card advantage. Worth a try i guess.
I'm on utter end. Can help as 1 of, i like it honestly even if 4 mana are a lot.
Btw an opinion: i'm feelinf 2 Bloodbaron are too manys. 1x can be a good idea?
Never said that my build is better, is just ok for me and my meta. Just i belive that some player understimate sometimes cards just because another one. There is a differene between unplayble or little better o little worse.
Saiyn that Liliana is the only reason to play this deck is a big missunderstanding of this archetype: liliana is 2° best walker ever printet, but not a staple of this deck according to Craig Wescoe: i've played with both (wiht and wothout) and she's strong but not a staple for deadguy ale, and not playng her can be a choise too.
About Bob is different: exacly as you said i've changed the deck around my ideas and testing. Just because is different don't mean is worse, or good. Maybe equal.
Anyways, as i sad before i give my personal opinion on the deck, can be bad ideas according someone, but i'm hoping someone can see the effort beyhond critics
1) for budget (and more) reasons I'm testing widout Lilly. Believe it or not I didn't miss her so much ; is a threat, yes, but also sometimes make my rat much worse (don't have cards in hand and topdeccking rat becamed two slow) not playing her hallowed me to use phyrexian arena... Guys is not too slow. Bob came one turn earlier but die from everything, including elettolyze that make him a waste of mana. Rarely I've lost with arena in play,and I can have all cmc 4 and 5 drops I desire, with delve cards too.
2) vampire nighthawk : helps a lot in aggro metas, o like him and I'm currently on 2x in main also cool with soulflayer delver strategy I'm on (happily). But 3 mana are a lot.. . I'm thinking about gatekeeper instead... They are legs edict and since I'm testing a sword too. .. Can be a good idea? Thoughts?
3) Percy is nice and I see him with bobs, ok, but I honestly prefer classic hitter. Of with bobs 3 tasigur /frog /flyers can't be played.
4) tidehollow : he is really a necessary evil...
No lingering souls????
I'm an unhappy Uwr control/midrange player who decided to play Twin untill wizard understand that this fear of blue spell is hurting the meta.
BGx decks are toolboxex but they can't simplify Mtg in: BGx vs All, they must understand that some people just want to play control/counterspell strategyes, and this will halp with "auto-win"strategyes also.
Until this silly fear will strike R&D we will see people combo off and abrupt decays eveywere
I use to play 2 Sword of War and Peace in my previous build with 3 Mirrain Crusaders, but latledy i went for delve reatures and cut Swords too.
Now i'm tryng singleton of War and Peace, i like procetion from Bolt and Path, and lifegain + damage is exactly what i want to do. Just i belive is a bit slow, but can make lingering/sorin's token a siriuos danger so...i'll try and make some report.
Counterspell will be extraordinary but is a unprobable reprint. Dig resurrected UWR at that time and i belive that a more fair (was too strong, i'm sure about that) will give us new life. Something strong enough to compete with T1 - IoK or TS. CMC 2 instant speed draw 2 cards? I'm exagerating?
About counters...there are decent cards like Logic Knot or Deprive. Ofc i'll love counterspell but i dont' feel the late-game counter lack, i feel the need of findig answers.