Yeah obviously "interesting" is subjective regarding Boros, and I do mostly mean "non-aggro" but I do also think they just haven't done much interesting stuff with that color pairing since they started printing Commander products.
There's some strong options, sure, and WR is a little restrictive, but that's why there's space to do something a little odd that pushes their pairing identity.
I went 3-0 with a GW deck. My pool was extremely slow. I only had two 2-drops in my colors and I think I honestly only had two more in the rest of my pool. No mana elf, no +1/+1 Wolves.
I had two Orchard Spirit, two Charging Griffin, two Stalwart Aven, and two of the 2/3 Deathouch/Renown green guy. I also had 3 copies of Wild Instincts. Again, my deck was slow -- all my removal cost 4 at Sorcery speed. I had like 10 4-drops, but as long as I was getting a guy down on turn three I was ending up all right.
I had Outland Colossus but only drew him once (and my opponent got him Renowned for me by using Act of Treason... and I proceeded to smash him for 24 in the next two turns) and the Managorger Hydra who was blasted immediately once and grew to a 6/6 the other game. Two of the 4/4 Naturalists that destroy an enchantment or artifact when they ETB were great as well.
Or Winding Canyons could be Beggar's Canyon — of course referenced by Luke in ANH, but also part of the Boonta Eve Classic we seen in Phantom Menace.
(This chick reminds me of a Hunter I know on Destiny...)
EDIT: I may as well chip in with some more ideas after seeing you post in the last page, Galspanic. And to reiterate what the folks are saying, I'm mad jealous about those Plains. I think Bristol hit their appeal right on the head.
Buried Ruin - Dagobah with a half-submerged X-wing in the swamp? Emeria, the Sky Ruin - Yeah, probably Bespin High Market - Gotta be Mos Eisley Karoo - Drawing nothing here, past the Naboo forest because Qui-Gon and Obi see those deer-like creatures running from the droid tank. Meh Kor Haven - Yoda's house on Dagobah Mistveil Plains - Uhh? May have to revisit one of your Plains arts. Mystifying Maze - "You're not actually going IN to an asteroid field?!" Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - Maybe Courascant and the statue of Palpatine that was added and toppled at the end of Jedi Strip Mine - Sarlaac for sure Temple of the False God - Jabba's Palace! The temple in the art already nicely matches that silhouette of Jabba's Palace in those sunset horizon shots, plus the name matches perfectly for Jabba! Tower of the Magistrate - Recon tower with Rebel soldier on Yavin 4? Not the best depiction of a tower, but it's a stretch on "magistrate" Winding Canyons - Beggar's Canyon Thespian's Stage - I'd say if not the Cantina band, Jabba's dancers on top of the pit -- seems to fit the audience feel of a stage more than the Cantina... no one's watching poor Figrin D'an up there doing his thing with the Kloo horn, but all eyes are on those dancers
I hope at least one of these was inspiring in some way, though I know you've already put a bunch of thought in on them.
Since the set was completely spoiled, I think I've completely 180'd on my picks for the weekend.
Initially I was on the Black train because of its promo, but the creatures just don't seem to be there for me. I'd love to get the 4R: Deal 2 damage Skelton Knight dude, though... he seems like a bomb in himself. But Stabwound at uncommon is going to be rough for black, and the 5 cmc removal spell seems like a lot when a lot of the set is smaller creatures. Lastly, it's best cards cause life loss for the player -- Ulcerate, Sign in Blood, the jump Vampire, Necrogen Scudder, something else I think -- and that's not irrelevant.
Picking red will give you a great shot at having probably two Incinerates in your deck to deal with the Indulgent Tormentor (black promo). All its removal blasts him and green can Plummet him or block it with the Spider (not ideal though, because they can just sit there and bleed you). Poor white has no way to deal with him past the O-Ring Sliver if they want to play around Devouring Light and just not attack.
I've come around most on GREEN. It's an odd set because it has a lot of small creatures, but doesn't appear like it's going to be super fast. I think all of Green's creatures are just going to boss the battlefield. The 2/3 with Convoke that drops a +1/+1 counter seems like he'll be solid, the Rhino is good and Elvish Mystic can get your off to some dream starts.
I initially thought Phytotitan was just horrible, but slow as he is, he's always coming back and they're going to have to keep handling him. The green Paragon makes him much better with trample, too. Green does look a little slow, but if you can get behind its 2-drop wall or the Spider, I think you'll be OK once Siege Wurms and Rhinos start dropping. I kind of want to play the 2G Fertile Land aura that gains you two life when it comes into play and go T1: Mystic, T2: Enchant Land, Turn 3 Rhino. Maybe I'm just stupid, because I know no one is giving that Fertile Land aura any credit, but it'll let you splash a bomb perhaps and the 2 life gain probably makes up for not dropping a blocker that turn.
I'm either going to pick Red or Green and hope to play RG or GU or GB. I just really like Frost Lynx a lot (art and abilities) and think blue is a good complement to green with cards like the Lynx and Divination to provide gas. I think Red/Green is the real dream with the King Kird Ape online and Incinerating your own Hornet's Nest when they swing with their whole army.
Cferejohn makes a good point in that when considering your curve, a card may not necessarily fill a slot equal to its converted mana cost. Illusory Angel, for example, will rarely be played on T3, even though she costs 3, because she required another spell to be played.
But overall, for non-creature spells, it's far less important that they fit the curve. Of courses, you don't want to have six spells that all cost 5 or so, you just want to be able to play them when you need them.
No, but you have to be willing to draw the aura naturally to put it in your deck. That requirement reduces somewhat as you add multiple pilgrims per aura of course, but then you're adding to the risk of drawing pilgrims without auras left in your library!
This, and tutoring the Aura isn't exactly free. You're playing a 1/2 for 3. In the context of getting popped in response to playing the Aura, you're just left with an overcosted 1/2.
I'll continue to chime in and say that I think the Pegasus + any equipment of the 2/2 Aura (even the 1/3 Aura) is a big threat. There aren't many fliers in M15, and not that many big ones. Green has less Reach than it's had in the past (no more Sentinel Spider) a 3/4 is going to outclass most other non-rare fliers save Illusory Angel and perhaps the convoke Angel with P/T = to creatures you control. It's also out of range of Incinerate and the Shock aura in Red. And Ulcerate.
Now of course there are always little fliers and Auras to be put on them in other formats. But its the lifelink that makes this one relevant. A tough to block creature with lifelink can swing a battle pretty dern quick, especially when it drops turn 2 and is getting beefed up by turn 4. As tricky and risky as Auras are though, it's kind of funny that without one, the Pegasus is pretty weak.
And those numbers don't have to be exact, and likely WON'T be exact, but you're just looking for something close! Visually, it's supposed to be a decent bell curve.
I mainly came to this topic to get information on what color I should play at the prerelease. I've been playing Magic: the Gathering for a little over two years now, but I'm terrible at making decks. I go to drafts on FNM all the time but because my decks are terrible, people treat me like a newbie. LOL! Oh well. So far I've decided to go Red mainly because of the speed and removal of the cards.
*I just typed a huge response to this and the sh*tty track pad on my girlfriend's lap top kept jumping me around until it finally somehow took me back a browser page and I lost it all. Here we go again, but an abbreviated version*
- Red looks good, but don't lock yourself in mentally to it. You may open up a stronger card pool in another color, so keep an open mind!
- As far as deck building, just keep in mind the golden rules that others have mentioned in the thread: play 40 cards (23, 17 lands), probably go two colors and maybe splash a third if you have a bomb, and lastly, have a solid curve. That last one is quite important.
Let's say you are playing 23 nonlands, and of those you have 6 spells and 17 creatures. Now, you're not going to be able to have a perfect curve in Sealed because you're limited to the cards you open, but ideally you'd want those 17 creatures to fill your curve something like:
Now, as people play more M15 and get a feel for the environment, it may prove to be a faster environment and you'll need more two-drops and so forth. But I think these numbers are generally correct going into a pre-release where no one really knows anything about the format. You may not always have that many creatures though and may end up playing more of a control deck with fewer creatures. Let's say you have 13 in a control deck, it may look more like:
2-drops: 2
3-drops: 3
4-drops: 4
5-drops: 2
6+drops: 2
... where those earlier drops are more defensive, like Wall of Faith and Barrier Reef. You'll have a heavier end to the curve because those earlier drops will get you to the later game when your bigger guys will finish the task.
I hope this has helped. You'll get better as you practice! Keep your head up. Some may disagree with my numbers here, but for the most part, I think these numbers will help you if you keep them in mind. Basically, 1-drops get out-classes very quickly (but cards like Elvish Mystic still have their place!), and you're not going to have time to play a bunch of 7-drops. The idea with a healthy curve is that you don't have any blank spots and will be able to drop a creature from turns 2-4 with regular consistency.
Lastly, the BREAD acronym can be helpful in showing the ways you prioritize cards in your deck. I've seen it written differently, but I always liked Bombs, Removal, Evasion, Advantage, Dregs. Bombs will win you the game, flat out, usually from nowhere. You'll need a couple of removal spells to handle other bombs or to swing through the opponents wall of creatures. Evasion like flying, unblockability, landwalk and even trample (to an extent) are valued highly on creatures, card advantage is always good, and dregs refers to the mundane creatures that are going to fill out your deck to get the job done.
Again, I hope this helps! Have fun! Post back here and let us know what colors you built, what cards you had, how you did, etc!
Now that you guys mention it, red does look quite fast and has good removal. Good ole Incinerate is always great in limited.
As I said I haven't done a pre-release involving the "color packs", so I'm finding it interesting looking ahead how that affects your deck before you even really begin. I guess if black does seem to be weak, yet the promo is best, there's an argument to not go that route. Of course, a promo could be Grave Titan and you still may not end up playing it because your black pool is so weak.
That was kind of my whole intention behind this thread — figuring out where the best balance of risk would lie when factoring the card pool of a color and its promo. Then again, you'll almost always be two colors, so if you figure you can get seven black playable or so including your big Demon, it's still probably a safe bet — and of course that works for any color.
Can someone please remind me of the "new" format for pre-release events. I believe the last I played in was Scars of Mirrodin.
You can use your promo card in your deck, correct? But when do I choose my "faction pack"? At the beginning of the tournament or after I bust my packs, and what comes in that pack?
I agree, I think the black promo is the best. Five-power flier for five with built in card advantage (unless the opponent wants a strong disadvantage otherwise) is great. Phytotitan seems quiet weak. I think the white Angel is good if you know you can get the mana. You put the game into a racing state of attacking back and forth without worrying about blocking, and then drop her when you're inside 5 life or so... Seems risky, but strong. Siege Dragon is good too, but pricy and the Wall ability is probably irrelevant.
I didn't see anything overwhelming from white at a glance -- past Serra Angel, which is the case with black and Sengir, for me -- but I like Blue and Green.
We've now the entire M15 set spoiled, and with pre-release events right around the corner, there's always the discussion of which color looks best!
Of course, it's hard to accurately say until we've put the cards to play, felt out the environment's pace, etc., but I'm just curious what you guys are predicting, largely based on the commons and uncommons of the colors.
Sound off! (And happy Fourth, everybody!)
EDIT: And hey, if you want to bag on what you think is the worst color, go for it!
Valakut's too slow? Doesn't the boost to your late game outweigh it potentially slowing you down early on?
I know this deck is fast, but I don't see it winning before Turn 7 if you didn't get to use Krenko, which I can see him being countered or shot a good bit when it's pretty clear what the deck is supposed to do (not that this is a bad thing).
How's it recover from Infest or Firespout early in the game?
Are the Fetchlands just there to shuffle your deck against Proteus Staff, Spin into Myth, etc?
And I just suggested Mouth of Ronom because the deck's pretty light in removal and doesn't have a ton of options against something like Magus of the Moat or Guardian Seraph early on.
These are just questions — You know the deck best.
EDIT: And Goblin King/General doesn't make the cut? I guess they're too slow for what you're going for?
This deck looks insanely fun to play, and who can get mad when you're running Tribal Goblins in EDH.
Though, you did leave out Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle of my career. Plus, you may as well run Mouth of Ronom if you're going with the Snow-Covered-Sheets package.
That Gorilla Shaman isn't even any where near the chains, that's how off the chains it is.
Good to see this thread hasn't changed any during my hiatus. Still the same four, five, six good people doing impressive alters and a million other people extending borders or drawing anime girls on basic lands (cool!).
@Klug, I got to see your My Little Pony-Elesh Norn alter in person last night. While I think that fad is the worst thing the Internet has produced, that alter was amazing. The lines were so cleannnnnnn!
EDIT: Sweet swirling onion-rings, bigup! That Fellwar Stone just got there.
EDIT2: That comment asking whether the Matthew Patel alter was a pirate is hysterical. Though, I'm not sure it was meant to be. "Pirates are in this year."
There's some strong options, sure, and WR is a little restrictive, but that's why there's space to do something a little odd that pushes their pairing identity.
Eh, I'm just groveling.
Just curious because Boros is in serious need of an interesting commander.
I had two Orchard Spirit, two Charging Griffin, two Stalwart Aven, and two of the 2/3 Deathouch/Renown green guy. I also had 3 copies of Wild Instincts. Again, my deck was slow -- all my removal cost 4 at Sorcery speed. I had like 10 4-drops, but as long as I was getting a guy down on turn three I was ending up all right.
I had Outland Colossus but only drew him once (and my opponent got him Renowned for me by using Act of Treason... and I proceeded to smash him for 24 in the next two turns) and the Managorger Hydra who was blasted immediately once and grew to a 6/6 the other game. Two of the 4/4 Naturalists that destroy an enchantment or artifact when they ETB were great as well.
(This chick reminds me of a Hunter I know on Destiny...)
EDIT: I may as well chip in with some more ideas after seeing you post in the last page, Galspanic. And to reiterate what the folks are saying, I'm mad jealous about those Plains. I think Bristol hit their appeal right on the head.
Buried Ruin - Dagobah with a half-submerged X-wing in the swamp?
Emeria, the Sky Ruin - Yeah, probably Bespin
High Market - Gotta be Mos Eisley
Karoo - Drawing nothing here, past the Naboo forest because Qui-Gon and Obi see those deer-like creatures running from the droid tank. Meh
Kor Haven - Yoda's house on Dagobah
Mistveil Plains - Uhh? May have to revisit one of your Plains arts.
Mystifying Maze - "You're not actually going IN to an asteroid field?!"
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - Maybe Courascant and the statue of Palpatine that was added and toppled at the end of Jedi
Strip Mine - Sarlaac for sure
Temple of the False God - Jabba's Palace! The temple in the art already nicely matches that silhouette of Jabba's Palace in those sunset horizon shots, plus the name matches perfectly for Jabba!
Tower of the Magistrate - Recon tower with Rebel soldier on Yavin 4? Not the best depiction of a tower, but it's a stretch on "magistrate"
Winding Canyons - Beggar's Canyon
Thespian's Stage - I'd say if not the Cantina band, Jabba's dancers on top of the pit -- seems to fit the audience feel of a stage more than the Cantina... no one's watching poor Figrin D'an up there doing his thing with the Kloo horn, but all eyes are on those dancers
I hope at least one of these was inspiring in some way, though I know you've already put a bunch of thought in on them.
Initially I was on the Black train because of its promo, but the creatures just don't seem to be there for me. I'd love to get the 4R: Deal 2 damage Skelton Knight dude, though... he seems like a bomb in himself. But Stabwound at uncommon is going to be rough for black, and the 5 cmc removal spell seems like a lot when a lot of the set is smaller creatures. Lastly, it's best cards cause life loss for the player -- Ulcerate, Sign in Blood, the jump Vampire, Necrogen Scudder, something else I think -- and that's not irrelevant.
Picking red will give you a great shot at having probably two Incinerates in your deck to deal with the Indulgent Tormentor (black promo). All its removal blasts him and green can Plummet him or block it with the Spider (not ideal though, because they can just sit there and bleed you). Poor white has no way to deal with him past the O-Ring Sliver if they want to play around Devouring Light and just not attack.
I've come around most on GREEN. It's an odd set because it has a lot of small creatures, but doesn't appear like it's going to be super fast. I think all of Green's creatures are just going to boss the battlefield. The 2/3 with Convoke that drops a +1/+1 counter seems like he'll be solid, the Rhino is good and Elvish Mystic can get your off to some dream starts.
I initially thought Phytotitan was just horrible, but slow as he is, he's always coming back and they're going to have to keep handling him. The green Paragon makes him much better with trample, too. Green does look a little slow, but if you can get behind its 2-drop wall or the Spider, I think you'll be OK once Siege Wurms and Rhinos start dropping. I kind of want to play the 2G Fertile Land aura that gains you two life when it comes into play and go T1: Mystic, T2: Enchant Land, Turn 3 Rhino. Maybe I'm just stupid, because I know no one is giving that Fertile Land aura any credit, but it'll let you splash a bomb perhaps and the 2 life gain probably makes up for not dropping a blocker that turn.
I'm either going to pick Red or Green and hope to play RG or GU or GB. I just really like Frost Lynx a lot (art and abilities) and think blue is a good complement to green with cards like the Lynx and Divination to provide gas. I think Red/Green is the real dream with the King Kird Ape online and Incinerating your own Hornet's Nest when they swing with their whole army.
But overall, for non-creature spells, it's far less important that they fit the curve. Of courses, you don't want to have six spells that all cost 5 or so, you just want to be able to play them when you need them.
This, and tutoring the Aura isn't exactly free. You're playing a 1/2 for 3. In the context of getting popped in response to playing the Aura, you're just left with an overcosted 1/2.
I'll continue to chime in and say that I think the Pegasus + any equipment of the 2/2 Aura (even the 1/3 Aura) is a big threat. There aren't many fliers in M15, and not that many big ones. Green has less Reach than it's had in the past (no more Sentinel Spider) a 3/4 is going to outclass most other non-rare fliers save Illusory Angel and perhaps the convoke Angel with P/T = to creatures you control. It's also out of range of Incinerate and the Shock aura in Red. And Ulcerate.
Now of course there are always little fliers and Auras to be put on them in other formats. But its the lifelink that makes this one relevant. A tough to block creature with lifelink can swing a battle pretty dern quick, especially when it drops turn 2 and is getting beefed up by turn 4. As tricky and risky as Auras are though, it's kind of funny that without one, the Pegasus is pretty weak.
2 . . .
3 . . . . .
4 . . . .
5 . . .
6 . .
*I just typed a huge response to this and the sh*tty track pad on my girlfriend's lap top kept jumping me around until it finally somehow took me back a browser page and I lost it all. Here we go again, but an abbreviated version*
- Red looks good, but don't lock yourself in mentally to it. You may open up a stronger card pool in another color, so keep an open mind!
- As far as deck building, just keep in mind the golden rules that others have mentioned in the thread: play 40 cards (23, 17 lands), probably go two colors and maybe splash a third if you have a bomb, and lastly, have a solid curve. That last one is quite important.
Let's say you are playing 23 nonlands, and of those you have 6 spells and 17 creatures. Now, you're not going to be able to have a perfect curve in Sealed because you're limited to the cards you open, but ideally you'd want those 17 creatures to fill your curve something like:
2-drops: 3
3-drops: 5
4-drops: 4
5-drops: 3
6+drops: 2
Now, as people play more M15 and get a feel for the environment, it may prove to be a faster environment and you'll need more two-drops and so forth. But I think these numbers are generally correct going into a pre-release where no one really knows anything about the format. You may not always have that many creatures though and may end up playing more of a control deck with fewer creatures. Let's say you have 13 in a control deck, it may look more like:
2-drops: 2
3-drops: 3
4-drops: 4
5-drops: 2
6+drops: 2
... where those earlier drops are more defensive, like Wall of Faith and Barrier Reef. You'll have a heavier end to the curve because those earlier drops will get you to the later game when your bigger guys will finish the task.
I hope this has helped. You'll get better as you practice! Keep your head up. Some may disagree with my numbers here, but for the most part, I think these numbers will help you if you keep them in mind. Basically, 1-drops get out-classes very quickly (but cards like Elvish Mystic still have their place!), and you're not going to have time to play a bunch of 7-drops. The idea with a healthy curve is that you don't have any blank spots and will be able to drop a creature from turns 2-4 with regular consistency.
Lastly, the BREAD acronym can be helpful in showing the ways you prioritize cards in your deck. I've seen it written differently, but I always liked Bombs, Removal, Evasion, Advantage, Dregs. Bombs will win you the game, flat out, usually from nowhere. You'll need a couple of removal spells to handle other bombs or to swing through the opponents wall of creatures. Evasion like flying, unblockability, landwalk and even trample (to an extent) are valued highly on creatures, card advantage is always good, and dregs refers to the mundane creatures that are going to fill out your deck to get the job done.
Again, I hope this helps! Have fun! Post back here and let us know what colors you built, what cards you had, how you did, etc!
As I said I haven't done a pre-release involving the "color packs", so I'm finding it interesting looking ahead how that affects your deck before you even really begin. I guess if black does seem to be weak, yet the promo is best, there's an argument to not go that route. Of course, a promo could be Grave Titan and you still may not end up playing it because your black pool is so weak.
That was kind of my whole intention behind this thread — figuring out where the best balance of risk would lie when factoring the card pool of a color and its promo. Then again, you'll almost always be two colors, so if you figure you can get seven black playable or so including your big Demon, it's still probably a safe bet — and of course that works for any color.
You can use your promo card in your deck, correct? But when do I choose my "faction pack"? At the beginning of the tournament or after I bust my packs, and what comes in that pack?
I agree, I think the black promo is the best. Five-power flier for five with built in card advantage (unless the opponent wants a strong disadvantage otherwise) is great. Phytotitan seems quiet weak. I think the white Angel is good if you know you can get the mana. You put the game into a racing state of attacking back and forth without worrying about blocking, and then drop her when you're inside 5 life or so... Seems risky, but strong. Siege Dragon is good too, but pricy and the Wall ability is probably irrelevant.
I didn't see anything overwhelming from white at a glance -- past Serra Angel, which is the case with black and Sengir, for me -- but I like Blue and Green.
Of course, it's hard to accurately say until we've put the cards to play, felt out the environment's pace, etc., but I'm just curious what you guys are predicting, largely based on the commons and uncommons of the colors.
Sound off! (And happy Fourth, everybody!)
EDIT: And hey, if you want to bag on what you think is the worst color, go for it!
I know this deck is fast, but I don't see it winning before Turn 7 if you didn't get to use Krenko, which I can see him being countered or shot a good bit when it's pretty clear what the deck is supposed to do (not that this is a bad thing).
How's it recover from Infest or Firespout early in the game?
Are the Fetchlands just there to shuffle your deck against Proteus Staff, Spin into Myth, etc?
And I just suggested Mouth of Ronom because the deck's pretty light in removal and doesn't have a ton of options against something like Magus of the Moat or Guardian Seraph early on.
These are just questions — You know the deck best.
EDIT: And Goblin King/General doesn't make the cut? I guess they're too slow for what you're going for?
Though, you did leave out Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle of my career. Plus, you may as well run Mouth of Ronom if you're going with the Snow-Covered-Sheets package.
That Gorilla Shaman isn't even any where near the chains, that's how off the chains it is.
Good to see this thread hasn't changed any during my hiatus. Still the same four, five, six good people doing impressive alters and a million other people extending borders or drawing anime girls on basic lands (cool!).
@Klug, I got to see your My Little Pony-Elesh Norn alter in person last night. While I think that fad is the worst thing the Internet has produced, that alter was amazing. The lines were so cleannnnnnn!
EDIT: Sweet swirling onion-rings, bigup! That Fellwar Stone just got there.
EDIT2: That comment asking whether the Matthew Patel alter was a pirate is hysterical. Though, I'm not sure it was meant to be. "Pirates are in this year."