Goyf is very rarely a 5/6 at any relevant point in our game plan. By that time just having another burn spell is probably more helpful. Cutting Eidolon is a terrible idea as you're sacrificing literally every other matchup to help against Eldrazi. Plus, ironically, Goyf gets weaker if you cut Eidolon thanks to it being an enchantment
I still think our only current tech against Eldrazi is more Path, more Palm, potentially Ensnaring Bridge, and just getting lucky.
Still considering placing Ensnaring Bridge in the side over the Singleton Skullcrack and Helix.
This is my favorite composition of this deck. I will be adding two ensnaring bridges to my sideboard exactly as you suggested.
I'll be running it at an event next weekend and will post events after.
Awesome. It's just the card numbers that felt most comfortable to me, and I feel give me the best balance against every matchup. Ensnaring Bridge seems pretty solid in testing, but I haven't brought it to a large event yet, definitely helps against Eldrazi though. If it doesn't work, the Skullcrack and Helix work perfectly fine.
The tournament went 10 rounds (I can post all my matchups if anyone actually cares), but I wanted to add that Mardu burn is extremely underrated...
I prefer Bump instead of Atarka's Command simply because Bump is a one drop. I missed out on a Top 8 once because I had a Boros Charm in hand with 3 lands on the field (opponent was at 7)... and I topdecked a two mana burn spell. That one mana can make all the difference.
You've convinced me to try playtesting Ensnaring Bridge, especially with the current Rise of Eldrazi (I'll see myself out)
Did you just bring it in against any aggro based deck? I feel like it has game against every aggro deck besides Affinity, Infect and the mirror, to which we already have potent sideboard options.
Did you do any shenanigans with swapping it around games 2 and 3? Would you say its equally effective on the play and draw?
So it seems that this is the current Tally of Eldrazi answers is this:
- Fight them like every big deck with Palm and Path
- Ensnaring Bridge to lock them out and dig for burn
- Vexing Shusher to ignore chalice
The question is how effective the last two are as sideboard cards. Shusher seems really narrow and not all the effective, but Ensnaring Bridge is amazingly tempting, especially if it lets you dig for DRev.
Palm and Path are important, and they also help in other matchups. Molten Rain should be lumped with these as well, because they help with Tron as well as let you color screw Jund/Junk. Rain is kind of icing on the cake of cards we already may want to sideboard that can also help against Eldrazi.
I think Ensnaring Bridge is a bit narrow and on the slow side.
Vexing Shusher is a no. First of all, the maindeck Chalice might not even show up in these decks against a generic meta (the Pro Tour isn't generic). Secondly, you're playing a 2 mana creature that tries to protect all of your 1 mana spells by making them all into 2 mana spells. Good game, because you just got overrun by 5/5s. Shusher used to see play in Legacy as protection against top-lock, but it's fallen out of favor for using Exquisite Firecraft as a finisher instead. Generally, Shusher there was something like a late game drop that you would use to immediately go off with by dumping spells with shusher protection.
On Shattering Spree: it's going to cost you 2 mana to kill a Chalice, and it's sorcery speed (which isn't very good against Affinity). Just play Smash/DRev for two mana isntead.
I'm just liking the idea of testing Ensnaring Bridge though, especially in very burn heavy, non-Nacatl builds. It seems that in certain matchups you can just drop it and literally lock the opponent out of the game as you keep toppdecking burn spells
I wouldn't say its narrow at all. It beats Merfolk, Eldrazi, Zoo, Most Kiki/Chord based decks, Tokens and any other flat aggro decks
So it seems that this is the current Tally of Eldrazi answers is this:
- Fight them like every big deck with Palm and Path
- Ensnaring Bridge to lock them out and dig for burn
- Vexing Shusher to ignore chalice
The question is how effective the last two are as sideboard cards. Shusher seems really narrow and not all the effective, but Ensnaring Bridge is amazingly tempting, especially if it lets you dig for DRev.
Played in regionals this past weekend, and performed poorly in the main event. However, thanks to that and a large handful of side events, I got in a ton of playtesting. With that, I have fallen a bit out of favor of running Nacatl's, especially with Eldrazi decks being on the rise.I've also solidified my views on some issues based on results and playtesting
Here's my current list, its very similar to already posted ones
I'm still definitely onboard the Atarka's camp though, its too versatile to give up, and the potential life detriment can usually be mitigated by skillful play. Having access to Helix only helps the cause
Only changes I'd potentially see is running Reality Hemorrhage somewhere in the sideboard, and working in whatever answers we discover for Eldrazi decks.
I'm on the camp that Nacatl is totally viable, and it has won me a decent amount of games where another burn spell wouldn't have gotten there. However I can see the arguments against her as valid.
I will say though, I think playing any land that can't tap for red (Temple Garden) is incredibly, absolutely wrong. It means that if you have to keep a one lander and Temple Garden happens to be that land its an instant mulligan. Bad.
Would you recommend Nacatl or regular burn for a completely unknown meta, now that it has shifted? Going to a big event in a couple weeks and would like to be as optimal as possible
Is anyone here still running Nacatl's? I just tried them in an event last night and they put in serious work, almost always dealing 3 damage minimum, sometimes more. Being able to follow them up with an Eidolon or Haste creature just creates incredible pressure.
Currently playing Nacatl Burn, is it correct to assume in the mirror/straight burn matchup you side out Nacatl and Atarka's games 2 and 3 so you can easily hit Kor Firewalker on curve and never take damage from green shocks?
Just wanted to chime in and say that I still admire the elegance and simplicity of a Naya Burn list without Nacatl. However, when I first started testing this variation (right after Atarka's Command came out), I felt that the impact of the new card was not worth the significant amount of lifeloss we have to accept in order be able to play all our spells. Eidolon, while an awesome card for sure, made this problem even worse. Originally I switched to the Nacatl build to at least be able to use Command at maximum efficiency. After testing the Mardu Build for a while (and quite liking it), I would now like to come back to mtgzealot's variant, but the bad experiences mentioned above are holding me back.
Am I just playing the deck wrong, or do other pilots face the same issues as me? Or is the lifeloss just not an issue anymore in the expected new meta?
And you should believe baby. Personally I'm in the camp that Nacatl lists are just as viable as non-Nacatl lists. Nacatl has the upside of being 3+ damage for 1 mana, whereas non-Nacatl lists tend to topdeck better. Boros Burn with just Destructive Revelry is also a consideration, but it has a bit more issues against non-aggressive decks,
Just playtest whatever lost piques your interest and go from there. Personally I'm running Nacatl's and I like them a lot, as they done a lot of work for me, but others may not feel the same.
Got a full list? I would say go up to a 4th DRev or try Smash to Smithereens before any Ancient Grudges
I'd say either depending on the meta and how many aggro decks you expect, especially Eldrazi. I'm playing 2 alongside 2 Path and 2 Palm.
I still think our only current tech against Eldrazi is more Path, more Palm, potentially Ensnaring Bridge, and just getting lucky.
Awesome. It's just the card numbers that felt most comfortable to me, and I feel give me the best balance against every matchup. Ensnaring Bridge seems pretty solid in testing, but I haven't brought it to a large event yet, definitely helps against Eldrazi though. If it doesn't work, the Skullcrack and Helix work perfectly fine.
Good luck, let us know how you do.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
2 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
2 Lightning Helix
12 Red Fetches
3 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Searing Blaze
1 Skullcrack
1 Lightning Helix
Results:
- Jund 2-0
- B/W Tokens 2-0
- Zoo 2-1
- Tron 2-0
- Hatebears 2-0
Still considering placing Ensnaring Bridge in the side over the Singleton Skullcrack and Helix.
You've convinced me to try playtesting Ensnaring Bridge, especially with the current Rise of Eldrazi (I'll see myself out)
Did you just bring it in against any aggro based deck? I feel like it has game against every aggro deck besides Affinity, Infect and the mirror, to which we already have potent sideboard options.
Did you do any shenanigans with swapping it around games 2 and 3? Would you say its equally effective on the play and draw?
I'm just liking the idea of testing Ensnaring Bridge though, especially in very burn heavy, non-Nacatl builds. It seems that in certain matchups you can just drop it and literally lock the opponent out of the game as you keep toppdecking burn spells
I wouldn't say its narrow at all. It beats Merfolk, Eldrazi, Zoo, Most Kiki/Chord based decks, Tokens and any other flat aggro decks
- Fight them like every big deck with Palm and Path
- Ensnaring Bridge to lock them out and dig for burn
- Vexing Shusher to ignore chalice
The question is how effective the last two are as sideboard cards. Shusher seems really narrow and not all the effective, but Ensnaring Bridge is amazingly tempting, especially if it lets you dig for DRev.
Here's my current list, its very similar to already posted ones
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
2 Searing Blaze
2 Lightning Helix
2 Skullcrack
12 Red Fetches (Choose your own! :D)
3 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Searing Blaze
1 Skullcrack
1 Lightning Helix
I'm still definitely onboard the Atarka's camp though, its too versatile to give up, and the potential life detriment can usually be mitigated by skillful play. Having access to Helix only helps the cause
Only changes I'd potentially see is running Reality Hemorrhage somewhere in the sideboard, and working in whatever answers we discover for Eldrazi decks.
I will say though, I think playing any land that can't tap for red (Temple Garden) is incredibly, absolutely wrong. It means that if you have to keep a one lander and Temple Garden happens to be that land its an instant mulligan. Bad.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
Burn
4 Lava Spike
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Searing Blaze
1 Lightning Helix
2 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
3 Kor Firewalker
And you should believe baby. Personally I'm in the camp that Nacatl lists are just as viable as non-Nacatl lists. Nacatl has the upside of being 3+ damage for 1 mana, whereas non-Nacatl lists tend to topdeck better. Boros Burn with just Destructive Revelry is also a consideration, but it has a bit more issues against non-aggressive decks,
Just playtest whatever lost piques your interest and go from there. Personally I'm running Nacatl's and I like them a lot, as they done a lot of work for me, but others may not feel the same.