My fellow GW D&T Lovers, I am considering going to the other side in a spin of the deck designed to be a beatdown deck with taxing elements and grind out with Gavony Township. Has something like this been tried before?
Not including the classic Arbiter value package means less free wins, but the deck should be very solid against Control, creature decks and BGx, also the inclusion of the Birds, 3 drops can be smoothly played without the need to uptick vial, plus it flies so it's great with Gavony Township. The sideboard may be too cute, but not having arbiter and being able to abuse Chord as 4x copies of any 1-of we're bringing makes the deck a lot more consistent, and it's not that much of a non-bo with thalia, as you can drop the amount of guardians you play by being able to fetch them anyway should you need them.
The only shaky card in the board is the Pontiff, which can't be cast off the manabase, but we can always chord for it or cast off birds /vial it in should we draw it.
Wow, that would be insane if Valakut does trigger on every Mountain entering the battlefield, regardless of amount, especially with KHE. Its definitely fine as it is. This explanation was really helpful for me as well, I did not yet know that Valakut also checks during resolution, now I understand the LD issue with 7 lands.
There is one trigger that still resolves in that case, the same if there are multiple valakuts triggering for each mountain. When a mountain is destroyed with the abilities on the stack, the destroyed one will check and will see 5 other mountains so it will resolve, but the other 5 will be countered cause they will only see 4 other mountains. This is why Tectonic Edge works to stop the combo and Ghost Quarter doesn't (it actually adds more damage) unless the person run out of basics somehow.
So tec edge reduces the dmg from 18 to 3 basically (if activated on 7 lands)?
Yes:
Shift for 7: 1 Valakut 6 mountains. You destroy a mountain with Tec Edge (say a stomping ground). The battlefield is now Valakut + 5 mountains. Every trigger for the mountains on the field fizzle because they see 4 other mountains, the mountain you destroyed resolves and deals 3 damage because it sees 5 other mountains.
Shift for 8: 2 Valakut and 6 Mountains. You destroy a mountain with Tec Edge (say a stomping ground). The battlefield is now Valakut + 5 mountains. Every trigger for the mountains on the field fizzle because they see 4 other mountains, the mountain you destroyed resolves both its triggers and deals 3 damage each time because it sees 5 other mountains.
Shift for 8: 1 Valakut and 7 mountains = you're dead unless you have 2x Tec Edge.
There are other examples for more lands, but are very unreal to deal with (unless the person wants to lose and fetches 3 valakuts on a shift for 9 or 4 valakuts on a shift for 10).
EDIT: I know you play jund. So, if you ever play against Blue Scapeshift (either RUG or 4 Color), you should know they only play 2 basic mountains as maximum (4 color usually just 1) and 10 mountains in total, so if you have both GQ and TE or Fulminators, you can disrupt with TE and Fluminator early and force them to fetch the only basic in their deck, then GQ it. It's easier to disrupt them than us.
Actually SRAM says cast, so setting it on zero is bad. If you test the match, 1 is actually the best number to cast it on because of Serum Visions and Retract.
If you set chalice on 0 they have nothing to Retract. Serum visions is fine, the problem is the draw 20 for U spell. What you would really want is Thorn of Amethyst, then you can play a chalice on 1 and sit back. I don't think it's a real deck though, too easy to hate out.
Wow, that would be insane if Valakut does trigger on every Mountain entering the battlefield, regardless of amount, especially with KHE. Its definitely fine as it is. This explanation was really helpful for me as well, I did not yet know that Valakut also checks during resolution, now I understand the LD issue with 7 lands.
There is one trigger that still resolves in that case, the same if there are multiple valakuts triggering for each mountain. When a mountain is destroyed with the abilities on the stack, the destroyed one will check and will see 5 other mountains so it will resolve, but the other 5 will be countered cause they will only see 4 other mountains. This is why Tectonic Edge works to stop the combo and Ghost Quarter doesn't (it actually adds more damage) unless the person run out of basics somehow.
Not sure what you mean by that. I assume you mean "stacking" instead of attacking. But what really confuses me is the part where you say you can use KHE to "get to 6 mountains before the first valakut trigger resolves". If you don't have 6 mountains when the lands hit the battlefield, valakut doesn't trigger. So if you play a land and sac KHE to get to 6 lands, only the KHE fetched lands trigger, the previous ones never triggered.
This is false. Valakut triggers whenever a mountain enters the battlefield regardless of how many mountains you already have, THEN it checks if you have 5 other mountains.
Say that to the rules:
Quote from 603.4. »
A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].” When the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening ‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
I couldn't agree with nookularboy more. Expedition opens a ton of options.
Nothing feels better than attacking your landfall above the valakut trigger to get the third counter on expedition and push yourself to six mountains before the first valakut triggers resolve. Except using one expedition to get your 3rd counter on another under the same scenario...
Not sure what you mean by that. I assume you mean "stacking" instead of attacking. But what really confuses me is the part where you say you can use KHE to "get to 6 mountains before the first valakut trigger resolves". If you don't have 6 mountains when the lands hit the battlefield, valakut doesn't trigger. So if you play a land and sac KHE to get to 6 lands, only the KHE fetched lands trigger, the previous ones never triggered.
Hi guys, I just wanted to ask here as there are people with way more experience than me on Spellskite. How good is it? Is really necessary? I have em and everything, it's not a stock or budget concern, more of how much of a staple is it to the deck? I've seen lists with it on the MB, some lists with it on the SB and some lists with no skite whatsoever. So, I wanted to get some insight on it, I was considering testing Walking Ballista in that slot.
What is the general opinion of oracle of muldaya in thisdeck, or courser of kruphix?
They are a little good if you land them on T3, otherwise they're not that great. They are kind of bad topdecks in the late game too. Courser can be very good in an aggro/burn heavy meta.
I think in the following weeks a somewhat established build with actual steady results will be prevalent, at that point a new primer for it will be necessary and it should be focused on that playstyle in particular.
I'm just gonna feel really bad if my opponent casts a prime time and I've got 2 pushes sitting in hand laughing at me :c
But you've never felt bad about giving your opp a land when you are trying to tax them?
Not really, you usually still have some ammount of choice about when they get that land by holding off casting path of a few turns if you think it's too early.
Holding the path against a resolved primeval titan? That's just as bad as having a push in hand. Pathing it is not that great either, at that point you're most likely dead or with a crippled/wiped board anyway.
Anyone ever tried a similar list to wescoe's article? It feels very off, but then again he's wescoe and he knows the archetype a lot better.
I like the addition of the Delve fatties, but you might find yourself losing to Leyline of the Void. Suddenly you won't be able to benefit from Stubborn Denial and your only plan will be beating down with delver or reaching 6 mana to do something. I'd also argue that Golgari charm seems like a better choice over Simic.
I'd go with 2 Mandrills and 1 Tasigur and replace the rest with Snapcasters and or V Cliques. Snaps also work well with your sideboard slots and an echoing truth or void snare would help beating cards like leyline.
4x Aether Vial
4x Path to Exile
Creatures:
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Selfless Spirit
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Flickerwisp
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Hero of Bladehold
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
3x Gavony Township
4x Windswept Heath
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Temple Garden
1x Forest
3x Plains
1x Eiganjo Castle
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Stirring Wildwood
4x Razorverge Thicket
3x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Eternal Witness
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Chord of Calling
Not including the classic Arbiter value package means less free wins, but the deck should be very solid against Control, creature decks and BGx, also the inclusion of the Birds, 3 drops can be smoothly played without the need to uptick vial, plus it flies so it's great with Gavony Township. The sideboard may be too cute, but not having arbiter and being able to abuse Chord as 4x copies of any 1-of we're bringing makes the deck a lot more consistent, and it's not that much of a non-bo with thalia, as you can drop the amount of guardians you play by being able to fetch them anyway should you need them.
The only shaky card in the board is the Pontiff, which can't be cast off the manabase, but we can always chord for it or cast off birds /vial it in should we draw it.
Yes:
Shift for 7: 1 Valakut 6 mountains. You destroy a mountain with Tec Edge (say a stomping ground). The battlefield is now Valakut + 5 mountains. Every trigger for the mountains on the field fizzle because they see 4 other mountains, the mountain you destroyed resolves and deals 3 damage because it sees 5 other mountains.
Shift for 8: 2 Valakut and 6 Mountains. You destroy a mountain with Tec Edge (say a stomping ground). The battlefield is now Valakut + 5 mountains. Every trigger for the mountains on the field fizzle because they see 4 other mountains, the mountain you destroyed resolves both its triggers and deals 3 damage each time because it sees 5 other mountains.
Shift for 8: 1 Valakut and 7 mountains = you're dead unless you have 2x Tec Edge.
There are other examples for more lands, but are very unreal to deal with (unless the person wants to lose and fetches 3 valakuts on a shift for 9 or 4 valakuts on a shift for 10).
EDIT: I know you play jund. So, if you ever play against Blue Scapeshift (either RUG or 4 Color), you should know they only play 2 basic mountains as maximum (4 color usually just 1) and 10 mountains in total, so if you have both GQ and TE or Fulminators, you can disrupt with TE and Fluminator early and force them to fetch the only basic in their deck, then GQ it. It's easier to disrupt them than us.
If you set chalice on 0 they have nothing to Retract. Serum visions is fine, the problem is the draw 20 for U spell. What you would really want is Thorn of Amethyst, then you can play a chalice on 1 and sit back. I don't think it's a real deck though, too easy to hate out.
There is one trigger that still resolves in that case, the same if there are multiple valakuts triggering for each mountain. When a mountain is destroyed with the abilities on the stack, the destroyed one will check and will see 5 other mountains so it will resolve, but the other 5 will be countered cause they will only see 4 other mountains. This is why Tectonic Edge works to stop the combo and Ghost Quarter doesn't (it actually adds more damage) unless the person run out of basics somehow.
Say that to the rules:
Not sure what you mean by that. I assume you mean "stacking" instead of attacking. But what really confuses me is the part where you say you can use KHE to "get to 6 mountains before the first valakut trigger resolves". If you don't have 6 mountains when the lands hit the battlefield, valakut doesn't trigger. So if you play a land and sac KHE to get to 6 lands, only the KHE fetched lands trigger, the previous ones never triggered.
They are a little good if you land them on T3, otherwise they're not that great. They are kind of bad topdecks in the late game too. Courser can be very good in an aggro/burn heavy meta.
Add this to the list
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-pmayne-eldrazi-tron-modern/
Holding the path against a resolved primeval titan? That's just as bad as having a push in hand. Pathing it is not that great either, at that point you're most likely dead or with a crippled/wiped board anyway.
Anyone ever tried a similar list to wescoe's article? It feels very off, but then again he's wescoe and he knows the archetype a lot better.
14 cards of your deck are banned in modern.
I'd go with 2 Mandrills and 1 Tasigur and replace the rest with Snapcasters and or V Cliques. Snaps also work well with your sideboard slots and an echoing truth or void snare would help beating cards like leyline.