A cookie-cutter counter/bounce Clique deck, in most circumstances, should take Doran fairly easily..
My theory is that a lot of the French players run Doran with a lot of black hand control, which is in many ways, the only real answer to Clique.
I have to agree with this to a certain extent. When I used to run Clique before my playgroup disbanded, defeating beatdown Doran was literally effortless. However, with all the discard I see running rampant in that deck nowadays, I'm not so sure I can still call the matchup easy anymore. Especially with the recent French lists that I've seen.
Still, it was a pain in the rear having to deal with Doran. He turns your Clique into a 1/1.
Sorry Spellskite but he already existed in white via Coalition Honor Guard / Standard Bearer. While Spellskite is in play he will be the target of any spot removal because people just tend to get annoyed allowing you to control things at your own pace. So he is essentially just one of the old flagbearer guys which dont get run either. Sure he is in blue but I hardly see him as worthy of the top 50 list. Perhaps on the gems page but not top 50 worthy.
I have to disagree with this assertion. If an opponent targets your Spellskite to simply get rid of it, it has done its job. Removal was used on the Spellskite rather than something more valuable like your general or a combo piece. The card is nothing like the flagbearers because it offers you more control of your redirections not to mention that its ability is reusable. Also, people will forget that it's on the table. In a multiplayer game, people get immersed in the politics or combat math. Redirecting a spell at the right time can be the difference between winning and losing.
Phyrexian Obliterator nobody uses damaging burn. Sure there are a few means of it in red but seriously... red is the worst color in EDH so I hardly see a reason to bring him in to hose red. Unless you can mysteriously flash him in at instant speed for a surprise blocker I just dont see him doing much for you. Great standard card, terrible EDH card.
I'll concede on this. He's still a great creature but he may be too situational to be considered in the top 50.
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger he is meh ok. I really wish he had some other ability instead though. He has his uses but I would be surprised if he makes the top 50 list. I just dont see him having an immediate impact on the game which sucks. Sure if he sticks he is great but without the immediate impact I find him sort of lackluster.
I can see where you're coming from with this but I still also think that he's a great addition to the list based on the fact that he can be a huge presence on the table. Opponents are going to hate having to tap their lands, he's a huge body with evasion, and he accelerates your mana. Getting up to that much mana is a small task for decks like Omnath, Rofellos, and Azusa; I've personally seen him hit the board as early as turn three. Mana denial strategies that include Thermokarst and Plow Under can also take advantage of his abilities.
You run black which has several ways to tutor in the first 1-2 turns. You can then drop Doran on turn 3. Turn 4 you drop an Armageddon effect. Good luck stabilizing with Doran out lol.
Cheap, effective, and a game-changer once he hits the board. He's an artifact and he's blue so that makes him easily accessible in any type of artificer's deck that can tutor him up on the spot. The fact that your life total becomes a weapon is amazing in multiplayer situations where the benefit of making friends outweighs the price of making enemies. He can protect your general (or an "ally's" as well) and stall just long enough to let your plans come to fruition. I'm very surprised not too many people know about this little guy. The fact that he can soak up so much with 4 toughness makes him formidable against a lot of spot removal while acting as a wall against cheaper creatures.
What the hell, Wizards? Okay, so let me get this straight... You guys wanted to print a monoblack creature with a power and toughness greater than it's converted mana cost, with trample. And then you want to give monoblack a way to destroy enchantments, artifacts, and planeswalkers if it gets tickled in any way. I think this ties with Braids for best black four drop in the format. Although it's slightly more mana-intensive, it becomes a huge presence on the battlefield. Players aren't going to want to block it. If it's untapped, players are going to think twice before attacking you. It's a great political card that can be used offensively and defensively to much effectiveness.
This is a dead horse and an obvious contender for a spot on the top 50 black non-creature list. Like it was mentioned before, it can jack Mindslaver, Sensei's Divining Top, Strip Mine, Karn Liberated, and whatever other goodies you can think of. A kid in a candy store would be jealous of the amount of fun you can have with this thing. At its worst, it becomes an Extract. At its best, it'll give you another win condition (sorry man, Blightsteel Colossus was in your deck?).
Rofellos (or any monogreen ramp deck for that matter) loves this guy. He always shows up to work on time (via Survival of the Fittest, etc.), he pulls double shifts (Hokori, Dust Drinker and Heartbeat of Spring in one card?), and he's strong enough to carry that inventory we just got in today. Oh, did I also mention that he shows up as early as turn three in a Rofellos/Azusa deck? Utterly ridiculous in multiplayer. His ability to lock down lands and supercharge your own means that you can gain a lead in mana advantage that'll be hard to stop.
I've seen this card in action before and it has the potential to completely lock out any type of tribal/cheap aggro/token deck without even lifting a finger. Plus, it's white, which means the person playing it has stupid cards like Wrath of God. Seriously, Elesh is a homewrecker. You're going to fall in love with her after you see what she does, particularly against Thelon of Havenwood and Rhys the Redeemed. I have not seen any other white card permanently shut those decks off completely when she's played properly (mainly in a prison archetype).
Although aggro isn't a highly popular metagame choice in competitive environments, I've seen Urabrask unintentionally dominate Earthcraft and cheap aggro. His ability is subtle; it allows you to alpha strike your opponents (due to the added CITP tapped clause) while letting you execute simple combat strategies. It even forces your opponent's generals to come into play tapped which can really slow down a counterattack. He's a deep, multidimensional monored card. I think that description alone already earns him a spot in the top 25, but if that's not enough, he's also a potential replacement for Kazuul, seeing as how in a one-on-one situation, Kazuul would have tapped defenders while Urabrask would just move in for the kill.
Not much to say here except that it's much needed removal for green. A better alternative to Desert Twister as the 3/3 token it creates is irrelevant most of the time, though not strictly better. Green now has more options when it comes to spot removal and I feel that Beast Within fills that niche very, very well.
I thought I read something once about a microwave... Don't take my word for it tho
Please don't put your Magic cards anywhere near microwaves. Foiled cards are partly comprised of aluminum film, which is pretty allergic to stuff like electromagnetism.
I've seen an Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite stax/prison type deck here recently. She's practically a Wrath of God when she hits the board and she runs surprisingly well against most of the meta. Norn's Annex is a nice little gem he likes to show off against aggro decks.
I like these a lot, especially Vekral the Insatiable (version 3).
There are some templating issues and other errors, no expansion symbol/rarity, copyright line, etc. but the Raymond Swanland artwork is top notch. He is one of my top 5 favourite fantasy artists, perhaps second only to Wayne Reynolds...
Yes, I love both Reynolds and Swanland both; their styles are just so distinct. As for the templating, I'm just too dang lazy. I'm going to have to revisit all of those cards and correct all the things you mentioned sometime in the future.
I don't understand why Sin-Daaz Rekkor loses deathtouch when you control six or more lands.
Mmm, I should've elaborated on her design. She was originally supposed to be this hyper aggressive general that comes out swinging and doesn't stop. But that could mean she basically autowins against slower, more flavorful or "fun" decks. So I added that last clause to calm her down to a vanilla creature after you hit your sixth land drop (you don't have to drop a sixth land; it's sort of a deckbuilding choice, you can either assemble your deck so that the mana curve is under six but that limits your ability to utilize "bombs" or you can run bigger spells but sacrifice her ability to wreck anything she touches).
I am still a little iffy on her design, though. I might redo it sometime in the near future.
Here are a couple of my EDH General creations:
Crusading Phelddagrif1GWU
Legendary Creature - Phelddagrif (Mythic Rare) G: You may have Crusading Phelddagrif assign its combat damage this turn as though it weren't blocked. Target opponent puts a 1/1 green Hippo creature token onto the battlefield. W: Crusading Phelddagrif is indestructible this turn. Target opponent gains 2 life. U: Untap Crusading Phelddagrif. Target opponent may draw a card.
4/4
Flee, Goblin SavantRRG
Legendary Creature – Goblin Wizard (Rare)
Whenever Flee, Goblin Savant or another nontoken Goblin enters the battlefield, reveal the top card of your library. If it's a Goblin card, put it into your hand. Otherwise, put it into your graveyard.
3/3
I love that Phelddagrif. Flee seems like it would be a very aggressive replacement for Wort. Goblins aren't normally that beefy with that casting cost, especially for a wizard, but I like the tribal card advantage it offers.
EDIT: Tried to go for something a little more interactive for U/W.
Jara Beleren :1mana::symu::symw:
Planeswalker - Jara
[+2] Look at the top three cards of your library
then put them back in any order.
[-1] Draw a card, then shuffle your library.
[-5] Reveal the top card of your library. You
may play that card without paying its casting cost
until the beginning of the next end step. [2]
I'm pretty sure it'll be a Judge Promo within a year.
Ugh, I hope not. Vindicate and Vendilion Clique are nearly four times as much as their regular counterparts, I can't even imagine what price tag the Judge Forces are going to demand.
You make a lot of assumptions with no data to back it up in that post. Getting rid of MPR pretty much pushed our store into getting unsanctioned, since people stopped coming to play FNM. those are players that would occasionally draft, they would buy packs, etc. Now they stay at home and play on the kitchen table. WoTC lost $$ on those players.
And when you are printing cards at the numbers WoTC does, the incrimintal cost of printing MPR has to be practically zero.
I may not have the data, maybe anecdotal evidence at best, but the brick and mortar stores here haven't increased their numbers nor have they lost any business because of the discontinuation of the MPR program.
I may have been exaggerating a little when it came to the financial "burden" that WotC suffered, but in my humble opinion, it was still a dying cow. It needed to be taken out to pasture and shot, not kept alive so that only a handful of stores can benefit from the program.
It sounds to me that your LGS is suffering from a lack of interest and motivation from the players to still play there, which isn't Wizards' fault in the least. On the contrary, the Magic scene here has strengthened ever since the removal of the MPR program simply because the only reason to go now is to mingle and have some fun rather than accumulate points to get some shiny new card in the mail. If the players in your store let that be the carrot on their end of that stick then that's unfortunate for them. We didn't let it be ours and we're thriving here despite our small playgroup.
With the loss of MPR, and now the loss of regional prereleases, it really makes me question Wizards judgment. Those were both awesome things that makes the game fun! So what if there're now 40 GPs? I didn't care about those before, and I sure as hell don't care about them now that there are more of them.
From a financial standpoint it makes perfect sense.
It's as if you have a refrigerator with one of those fancy ice cube makers, but you never really used it. In fact, it broke like ten months ago but you never bothered to fix it and it smells like your grandma's potato salad. I'd probably invest my utility bill into something that would benefit me a lot more than some infernal funk coming from my fridge. Like another fridge with no fancy ice cube makers that hogged less electricity. It's just better for me (and my nose) in the long run.
Player Rewards were netting Wizards nothing mainly because the few players that were invested in it weren't enough to support the costs in operating it in full scale. In fact, printing an entirely different set of rewards cards and shipping them out probably cost them a lot more money than they expected. Not to mention having to hire an entire devoted staff to licking those envelopes and stuffing them with foils all day. Yeah, it was awesome, but not awesome enough for the company.
Doh! It's right there in the friggin thread title, I should really learn to read.
Dark Tutelage: As for Dark Tutelage, I found that with 20 life it's just too risky. Although Dark Confidant has the same effect, it's 10x easier to remove as a creature so it's never brought me too close to lethal.
That's definitely true. I suppose with no real way to recur your enchantments or even tutor for them all that effectively (whereas there are pretty much millions of ways to search for a Dark Confidant in your list), it's not worth a slot. I use it a lot in conjunction with lifelink, so I guess I take its downside for granted.
Lignify: What I'm trying to accomplish with Lignify is shut down creatures that all the other cards you named cannot, while maintaining a low curve. For example, while testing against Evergreen last night, Lignify saved me from a Krovikan Horror + Kokusha sac engine that Arrest, Pacifism and Prison Term wouldn't have effected. The 4/4 thing IS relevant; if you could name another card that also took away all abilities I would definitely swap it
I see what you're doing there; Lignify gets rid of all abilities: triggered, activated, etc. The Horror/Kokusho interaction is definitely new to me so I hadn't taken that into consideration. In that case, Lignify is valid, though giving your opponent a 4/4 seems like it could backfire pretty badly.
Sylvan Library: I found that when I'm trying to drop a T2 Doran and keep up heavy tempo, Library comes out a turn too late - plus with 20 life I can't really abuse the extra draw. For now I chose to run Mirri's Guile in its place. What would you suggest cutting to include Library and/or top?
Library in conjunction with Guile could provide you with some epic card advantage late in the game. I find that sticking a Library early in the game also pressures opponents into overextending their game plan because they don't want you to have too much life to play with late in the game. You don't necessarily have to pay the life every time, in fact, it should be played just the opposite. Use it to get some intel on your topdecks, shuffle up with a fetchland if your ammunition looks poor, then keep a card that'll let you make that last push if the game threatens to stall. I've had it save my back on more than one occasion but, of course, mileage will vary depending on deck construction.
The usual suspects to cut would probably be Rend Flesh or Go for the Throat for the Library. Maybe even Deed since that seems counterintuitive to your main beatdown strategy. I'd say Rend Flesh. While Rend Flesh hits practically everything, it costs three which interferes with a turn 2/3 Doran drop to pressure and unnecessarily hogs an extra mana if you're expecting something big to hit the table.
For the Top I'd recommend dropping Harmonic Sliver. Quasali Pridemage does what Harmonic does two times better for a third less. With Sun Titan and Eternal Witness on board, I highly doubt that you have any significant trouble with artifacts and enchantments. Plus, Quasali can sac himself to force Sun Titan to recur him whereas Harmonic has a much harder time getting into the graveyard.
Of course, those are just a few suggestions. I honestly think the list is pretty tight. I love that you catered the deck to take advantage of Tainted Pact, that's just delicious.
One question, though. Why no Murmuring Bosk? Just out of curiosity... a lot of Doran decks around here don't run it either but I'm just wondering about that; it's fetchable and can produce all of the colored mana you need, or is the drawback too heavy?
I have to agree with this to a certain extent. When I used to run Clique before my playgroup disbanded, defeating beatdown Doran was literally effortless. However, with all the discard I see running rampant in that deck nowadays, I'm not so sure I can still call the matchup easy anymore. Especially with the recent French lists that I've seen.
Still, it was a pain in the rear having to deal with Doran. He turns your Clique into a 1/1.
I have to disagree with this assertion. If an opponent targets your Spellskite to simply get rid of it, it has done its job. Removal was used on the Spellskite rather than something more valuable like your general or a combo piece. The card is nothing like the flagbearers because it offers you more control of your redirections not to mention that its ability is reusable. Also, people will forget that it's on the table. In a multiplayer game, people get immersed in the politics or combat math. Redirecting a spell at the right time can be the difference between winning and losing.
I'll concede on this. He's still a great creature but he may be too situational to be considered in the top 50.
I can see where you're coming from with this but I still also think that he's a great addition to the list based on the fact that he can be a huge presence on the table. Opponents are going to hate having to tap their lands, he's a huge body with evasion, and he accelerates your mana. Getting up to that much mana is a small task for decks like Omnath, Rofellos, and Azusa; I've personally seen him hit the board as early as turn three. Mana denial strategies that include Thermokarst and Plow Under can also take advantage of his abilities.
This.
Doran on turn 2/3 with Ravages of War, Cataclysm, or Armageddon on turn 3/4 is basically game over against a lot of decks.
My top NPH nominees would be:
Explanations below:
Please don't put your Magic cards anywhere near microwaves. Foiled cards are partly comprised of aluminum film, which is pretty allergic to stuff like electromagnetism.
YouTube it to see for yourself.
Yes, I love both Reynolds and Swanland both; their styles are just so distinct. As for the templating, I'm just too dang lazy.
Mmm, I should've elaborated on her design. She was originally supposed to be this hyper aggressive general that comes out swinging and doesn't stop. But that could mean she basically autowins against slower, more flavorful or "fun" decks. So I added that last clause to calm her down to a vanilla creature after you hit your sixth land drop (you don't have to drop a sixth land; it's sort of a deckbuilding choice, you can either assemble your deck so that the mana curve is under six but that limits your ability to utilize "bombs" or you can run bigger spells but sacrifice her ability to wreck anything she touches).
I am still a little iffy on her design, though. I might redo it sometime in the near future.
I love that Phelddagrif. Flee seems like it would be a very aggressive replacement for Wort. Goblins aren't normally that beefy with that casting cost, especially for a wizard, but I like the tribal card advantage it offers.
One influenced heavily by the Valakut Ramp decks of late.
EDIT: Tried to go for something a little more interactive for U/W.
Jara Beleren :1mana::symu::symw:
Planeswalker - Jara
[+2] Look at the top three cards of your library
then put them back in any order.
[-1] Draw a card, then shuffle your library.
[-5] Reveal the top card of your library. You
may play that card without paying its casting cost
until the beginning of the next end step.
[2]
Ugh, I hope not. Vindicate and Vendilion Clique are nearly four times as much as their regular counterparts, I can't even imagine what price tag the Judge Forces are going to demand.
I may not have the data, maybe anecdotal evidence at best, but the brick and mortar stores here haven't increased their numbers nor have they lost any business because of the discontinuation of the MPR program.
I may have been exaggerating a little when it came to the financial "burden" that WotC suffered, but in my humble opinion, it was still a dying cow. It needed to be taken out to pasture and shot, not kept alive so that only a handful of stores can benefit from the program.
It sounds to me that your LGS is suffering from a lack of interest and motivation from the players to still play there, which isn't Wizards' fault in the least. On the contrary, the Magic scene here has strengthened ever since the removal of the MPR program simply because the only reason to go now is to mingle and have some fun rather than accumulate points to get some shiny new card in the mail. If the players in your store let that be the carrot on their end of that stick then that's unfortunate for them. We didn't let it be ours and we're thriving here despite our small playgroup.
From a financial standpoint it makes perfect sense.
It's as if you have a refrigerator with one of those fancy ice cube makers, but you never really used it. In fact, it broke like ten months ago but you never bothered to fix it and it smells like your grandma's potato salad. I'd probably invest my utility bill into something that would benefit me a lot more than some infernal funk coming from my fridge. Like another fridge with no fancy ice cube makers that hogged less electricity. It's just better for me (and my nose) in the long run.
Player Rewards were netting Wizards nothing mainly because the few players that were invested in it weren't enough to support the costs in operating it in full scale. In fact, printing an entirely different set of rewards cards and shipping them out probably cost them a lot more money than they expected. Not to mention having to hire an entire devoted staff to licking those envelopes and stuffing them with foils all day. Yeah, it was awesome, but not awesome enough for the company.
Doh! It's right there in the friggin thread title, I should really learn to read.
That's definitely true. I suppose with no real way to recur your enchantments or even tutor for them all that effectively (whereas there are pretty much millions of ways to search for a Dark Confidant in your list), it's not worth a slot. I use it a lot in conjunction with lifelink, so I guess I take its downside for granted.
I see what you're doing there; Lignify gets rid of all abilities: triggered, activated, etc. The Horror/Kokusho interaction is definitely new to me so I hadn't taken that into consideration. In that case, Lignify is valid, though giving your opponent a 4/4 seems like it could backfire pretty badly.
Library in conjunction with Guile could provide you with some epic card advantage late in the game. I find that sticking a Library early in the game also pressures opponents into overextending their game plan because they don't want you to have too much life to play with late in the game. You don't necessarily have to pay the life every time, in fact, it should be played just the opposite. Use it to get some intel on your topdecks, shuffle up with a fetchland if your ammunition looks poor, then keep a card that'll let you make that last push if the game threatens to stall. I've had it save my back on more than one occasion but, of course, mileage will vary depending on deck construction.
The usual suspects to cut would probably be Rend Flesh or Go for the Throat for the Library. Maybe even Deed since that seems counterintuitive to your main beatdown strategy. I'd say Rend Flesh. While Rend Flesh hits practically everything, it costs three which interferes with a turn 2/3 Doran drop to pressure and unnecessarily hogs an extra mana if you're expecting something big to hit the table.
For the Top I'd recommend dropping Harmonic Sliver. Quasali Pridemage does what Harmonic does two times better for a third less. With Sun Titan and Eternal Witness on board, I highly doubt that you have any significant trouble with artifacts and enchantments. Plus, Quasali can sac himself to force Sun Titan to recur him whereas Harmonic has a much harder time getting into the graveyard.
Of course, those are just a few suggestions. I honestly think the list is pretty tight. I love that you catered the deck to take advantage of Tainted Pact, that's just delicious.
One question, though. Why no Murmuring Bosk? Just out of curiosity... a lot of Doran decks around here don't run it either but I'm just wondering about that; it's fetchable and can produce all of the colored mana you need, or is the drawback too heavy?