Oh man they are playing [Insert Color Here] I better play this deck to counter [Insert Color Specific Bomb], or [Another Color Specific Bomb]!!
Maybe I should just not worry about the bombs and be prepared to deal with them. EDH/Commander (ugh) is a format where bombs literally define the format. It's what wins games. Some things do cross lines as posted above, but really unless it is simply stupid like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn then it's probably fine.
Exactly! That's what makes EDH what it is; it's the nature of the beast. Nobody wants to sit around the table stockpiling creatures and playing a war of attrition with everyone refusing to attack because they're too lazy to do the combat math. That gets boring real quick.
Sorin and Sphinx are sort of like the Boredom Police. So, Moat and Gravity Sphere are on the board? You have the right to remain silent while I give you some life loss to the face.
I feel that white's creature list needs a little reworking, particularly because I've been playing mono-white for quite a while now. Also, why isn't Serra Ascendant in the Top 25 White Creatures list? It's practically a 6/6 Flying, Lifelink face puncher for :symw:, pretty much all the time. I think it can oust Stonecloaker rather easily.
I think Baneslayer Angel deserves an honorable mention as well but that's highly debatable.
I also think that Ethersworn Canonist is a top contender. Mono-white severely lacks some consistent way to combat combo-based decks. She's tutorable via Enlightened Tutor and she allows you to accelerate with mana rocks. In a deck like Kemba or Mono-white Prison she's a definite shoe-in. She's especially useful in aggro-disruption decks like Gaddock Teeg and Doran. I think she can overtake Sunblast Angel's place in the list with ease.
Austere Command is a nice nominee for the non-creature list, in my opinion. The ability to be flexible with what type of Wrath effect you want can be game-breaking. I think it can safely contend for Replenish's spot. Seriously, who plays Replenish nowadays, besides Uril and Zur? There's no way to recur it and not that many decks run mass enchantment removal.
Meh, i for one hate Sorin i think his ability is pretty rediculessly powerful in EDH because a smart player dosent drop it till they have there victim within killing range.
You could say the same about any rare/mythic bomb, though. Players won't tap out for Insurrection or Tooth and Nail unless the board is in their favor or to gain an advantage. That's how those cards should be played because they're powerful cards. Does it make them overpowered? Not at all. The player using them is competent enough (and his opponent, unfortunately, unprepared enough) in setting up a board position to the point where a victory would be imminent if a spell like that resolves. Like you said: that's smart!
In the case of Exsanguinate and the like, I see no reason for them to be banned unless the people using them just have such an overwhelming advantage over every other opponent that they're considered "degenerate". And by that I mean that their metagame isn't developed at all. Or there are nothing but budget decks in that area. In which case, I can see the justification for that. Sort of.
I think both those cards are good and necessary. I say this as a person who will happily generate an infinite amount of life when capable. Things are needed to keep people in check. If I die because of them, well that's just part of the game.
That's exactly why cards like Sorin and Sphinx exist. Life.dec is more common than most people think. There's always that one person that has to include an infinite life combo in his homebrew.
Good call. He didn't say it, but by the way he was describing the competition and situation made that conclusion. Why would you ban Yawgmoth's Will,? You need a deck of broken cards for it to make it broken. That's like saying Black Lotus is broken even with if the deck is Silver Legion with Black Louts and 98 Lands.
True, Yawg's Will does require brokenness in the yard to be broken. But my point still stands! Something like Exsanguinate being banned from a playgroup means that that particular playgroup hasn't fully matured enough to be able to handle it properly. Which is kind of mindboggling.
Those cards are far from unfair given that their casting costs are proper and justified at the rarity they're at. It sounds like your metagame doesn't have a single blue deck in sight. Those types of spells are extremely easy to regulate, especially in larger player pods (4-5 players) where something that bomb-like is bound to get countered or taken out to pasture and shot.
By that logic, Yawgmoth's Will and Iona, Shield of Emeria should get the banstick as well since they have the ability to win games on the spot. Maybe they should ban Traumatize, too, since that's an absolute house against highlander decks. Okay that's a bit of a stretch, but you get my drift. Those cards are a far cry from Balance or Yawgmoth's Bargain (cards that the RC actually banned) where the game degenerates into a groanfest which unnecessarily lengthens the game. At least the cards you mentioned are trying to end the game.
Not to nitpitck but you're forgetting black's insanedrawpower. Black draws WAY better than green. Blue and black are the draw colors. There's no reason red shouldn't be allowed in on the fun if you ask me.
This. THIS. Even more Gamble effects would help elevate the fun level of running mono red instead of the ear-piercing "WHERE'S MY CARRRRDD" warcries I hear from every Godo player I come across. Stranglehold is definitely going in the right direction (if I can't have fun, no one can), but I think red needs a bigger boost in terms of consistency.
Exactly! That's what makes EDH what it is; it's the nature of the beast. Nobody wants to sit around the table stockpiling creatures and playing a war of attrition with everyone refusing to attack because they're too lazy to do the combat math. That gets boring real quick.
Sorin and Sphinx are sort of like the Boredom Police. So, Moat and Gravity Sphere are on the board? You have the right to remain silent while I give you some life loss to the face.
Oops, didn't see that.
If we're being proactive here, just use Praetor's Grasp and play it yourself. That'll show him!
I think Baneslayer Angel deserves an honorable mention as well but that's highly debatable.
I also think that Ethersworn Canonist is a top contender. Mono-white severely lacks some consistent way to combat combo-based decks. She's tutorable via Enlightened Tutor and she allows you to accelerate with mana rocks. In a deck like Kemba or Mono-white Prison she's a definite shoe-in. She's especially useful in aggro-disruption decks like Gaddock Teeg and Doran. I think she can overtake Sunblast Angel's place in the list with ease.
Austere Command is a nice nominee for the non-creature list, in my opinion. The ability to be flexible with what type of Wrath effect you want can be game-breaking. I think it can safely contend for Replenish's spot. Seriously, who plays Replenish nowadays, besides Uril and Zur? There's no way to recur it and not that many decks run mass enchantment removal.You could say the same about any rare/mythic bomb, though. Players won't tap out for Insurrection or Tooth and Nail unless the board is in their favor or to gain an advantage. That's how those cards should be played because they're powerful cards. Does it make them overpowered? Not at all. The player using them is competent enough (and his opponent, unfortunately, unprepared enough) in setting up a board position to the point where a victory would be imminent if a spell like that resolves. Like you said: that's smart!
In the case of Exsanguinate and the like, I see no reason for them to be banned unless the people using them just have such an overwhelming advantage over every other opponent that they're considered "degenerate". And by that I mean that their metagame isn't developed at all. Or there are nothing but budget decks in that area. In which case, I can see the justification for that. Sort of.
That's exactly why cards like Sorin and Sphinx exist. Life.dec is more common than most people think. There's always that one person that has to include an infinite life combo in his homebrew.
True, Yawg's Will does require brokenness in the yard to be broken. But my point still stands! Something like Exsanguinate being banned from a playgroup means that that particular playgroup hasn't fully matured enough to be able to handle it properly. Which is kind of mindboggling.
Those cards are far from unfair given that their casting costs are proper and justified at the rarity they're at. It sounds like your metagame doesn't have a single blue deck in sight. Those types of spells are extremely easy to regulate, especially in larger player pods (4-5 players) where something that bomb-like is bound to get countered or taken out to pasture and shot.
By that logic, Yawgmoth's Will and Iona, Shield of Emeria should get the banstick as well since they have the ability to win games on the spot. Maybe they should ban Traumatize, too, since that's an absolute house against highlander decks. Okay that's a bit of a stretch, but you get my drift. Those cards are a far cry from Balance or Yawgmoth's Bargain (cards that the RC actually banned) where the game degenerates into a groanfest which unnecessarily lengthens the game. At least the cards you mentioned are trying to end the game.
Me: (No lands) I'll mull down to 6. (No creatures) Ugh, mull to 5. (Four Mountains and a Goblin Matron) Oh man, mull to 4. (Auntie's Hovel, Mountain, Goblin Ringleader and a Goblin Lackey) Okay, I'll play.
Him: Uh, okay. Swamp, Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach?
Me:
1. Realizing that I'm playing a deck that doesn't contain Islands in Commander.
2. Realizing that everyone else at the table is.
This. THIS. Even more Gamble effects would help elevate the fun level of running mono red instead of the ear-piercing "WHERE'S MY CARRRRDD" warcries I hear from every Godo player I come across. Stranglehold is definitely going in the right direction (if I can't have fun, no one can), but I think red needs a bigger boost in terms of consistency.
Eradicate is another solution, though less effective in EDH overall. Ulamog is a beast.
Orim's Chant or Lightmine Field + Humility hoses creature decks.
I had a Doran deck do this to my Kemba deck not too long ago:
1. Praetor's Grasp exiling Armageddon
2. Play exiled Armageddon
3. Play his own copy of Armageddon
4. Play Ravages of War
5. Play Yawgmoth's Will and cast Armageddon
Let's just say I never had more than two lands out at a time that entire game.
Even though they admitted it to be a poorly executed joke I do hope they follow through on making Assembling a mechanic. One can only hope...