I see people proposing an option 1 or option 2, but I think there is a compromise solution here. I would like to see restrictions,not outright bans.
So I like option 2 above, but instead of banning make these cards as a max 2-of in a deck. If a card is still format warping, then ban. I don't think completely removing the cards is always the way to go.
@maniospas
-Def play the deck a lot. I have tested Ringleader a lot this week, and it really helps me go wide if need be.
-Here is my current decklist. I made further tweaks today after going undefeated yesterday, but just barely. With Ringleader and Matron, I find myself full of goblins. Pashalik Mons, Krenko, Mob Boss, Sling-Gang Lieutenant and Skirk Prospector are all goblins that can be tutored/drawn, that can tap to attack, or simply aristocrat bleed an enemy to death. Last night I beat B/W Zombies by simply tapping Krenko for two turns to make 12 goblin tokens with haste.
-I might lose knucklebone witch for another legion loyalist. It doesn't seem as effective as I thought when I actually cast it.
Hi all! Coming from trying to make Skirk+Fecundity competitive, my brewing has arrived at this list that incorporates a mini-combo finish:
If left unchecked, it often achieves a turn 4 (sometimes turn 3) explosion through Skirk+Empty. Effectively, the idea is to play 3-4 goblins, sac them to get mana, get a lot of tokens and bushwhack. It may appear demanding on paper, but in practice there there are many lines that achieve the desired outcome (especially with Unearth+Matron serving for an discounted Matron). In general, Unearth enables a ton of fun synergies, such as reanimating Marshal turn 3 and bushwhacking for 10.
I think you would pull your hair out when you have two Frogtosser Banneret on the battlefield and Goblin Bushwhacker in hand. Spending all that mana on two 1/1 creatures that don't help you cast some of your finishers will cost games.
Goblin Chieftain most of the time is simply going to be a better card as you go more mid-range in a build. If I want to take advantage of cost-reduction, give me the chieftain for RR that gives me a permanent Bushwacker effect as an example.
If your going to play Ringleader, you really have to treat it like a collected company. 35 creatures is the minimum number of creatures I would want in a deck with him. Ensuring you hit at least 2 creatures is huge. Playing Ringleader ending up finding one goblin and empty the warrens, putting warrens on the bottom of your library is not going to go well.
Do you think warchief is still necessary even with the full playset of frogtosser banneret? I'm not high on warren instigator, seems slow at 2 mana and no evasion makes me wonder why its played. Prospector is another source of mana so maybe i could play more of those.
The curve is kind of high with 12 3 drops and 4x 4 drops... I'm not against more haste enablers so maybe warchief is worth it.
Yes, I would run a combination of Frogtosser and Warchief so you have at least 6 total of those cards in the deck. I don't know if you need 4 knucklebone, worth trying. But yes, if you want your deck to be competitive, and your not using vial, then you need a way to dump goblins onto the battlefield cheaply and quickly. 4 Frogtosser, 4 Skirk, and 2 Warchief might be a perfect mix.
Hi! i'm new to this archetype but recent additions made me want to try out this deck.
I'm also trying out new krenko as a cheap way of generating board presence. Also cratermaker seems fine as a one of for artifact hate. I feel like we need a minimum of 4 interactive goblins. Cratermaker at worst kills 2 thoughness stuff. I feel good about expert, the fact that it can hit planeswalkers too at flash seems great vs control, and with cavern of souls it seems even better.
You have a very high creature count, and a lot of 3/4 cc creatures. Without vial or Instigator, you might run into a logjam in your hand, especially with 20 lands. I would remove one chieftain and Krenko for 2 Goblin Warchief. I think I would dump one Auntie, to add Krenko, Mob Boss or Legion Warboss. I think you should lean more into the dying of your goblins more to maximize it.
Very rough Sorin Aristocrats I put together. I do not really need Red in this deck, except for maybe Insolent Neonate. Oathsworn Vampire I think as a one of might be key, since without much set-up it makes Sorin able to lightning Helix every turn for 2 mana, which is insane value.
Sideboard will load up on stuff to beat unfair combo decks like Thoughtseize, Countersquall, etc. and maybe board out some graveyard dependant stuff games 2 and 3 for more lords like Death Baron in creature matchups.
Interesting deck, but I don't see explosiveness here. You don't have much ability to get cards in your graveyard. Stitcher works good in an aristocrats/dredge build, but your build looks like a slower deck that doesn't really as much on graveyard.
Rough Idea so far, lands not fully figured out yet:
Cryptbreaker and Collective Brutality can pitch Gravecrawler/Bridge from Below/unnecessary cards. Collective brutality key since it can work to gain us life, discard a card we want in graveyard, kill a creature of ours to potentially draw a card/deal damage/, remove an opponents creature, or be a mini-thoughtseize.
Liliana, Heretical Healer might be an interesting card to try. With stuff like Carrion Feeder, you can sacrifice another zombie, have her create a zombie, flip her, and then bring back a lord or discarded card immediately.
Not sure about relentless dead. Might be too much of a mana drain. Dregscape Zombie or a lord might be a better play
So I like option 2 above, but instead of banning make these cards as a max 2-of in a deck. If a card is still format warping, then ban. I don't think completely removing the cards is always the way to go.
-Def play the deck a lot. I have tested Ringleader a lot this week, and it really helps me go wide if need be.
-Here is my current decklist. I made further tweaks today after going undefeated yesterday, but just barely. With Ringleader and Matron, I find myself full of goblins. Pashalik Mons, Krenko, Mob Boss, Sling-Gang Lieutenant and Skirk Prospector are all goblins that can be tutored/drawn, that can tap to attack, or simply aristocrat bleed an enemy to death. Last night I beat B/W Zombies by simply tapping Krenko for two turns to make 12 goblin tokens with haste.
-I might lose knucklebone witch for another legion loyalist. It doesn't seem as effective as I thought when I actually cast it.
The sideboard I am revamping, with Goblin Chainwhirler and Stingscourger, along with more graveyard hate being needed.
3 Frogtosser Banneret
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Goblin Instigator
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Knucklebone Witch
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Munitions Expert
2 Pashalik Mons
4 Skirk Prospector
1 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 Auntie's Hovel
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Foreboding Ruins
9 Mountain
1 Swamp
I think you would pull your hair out when you have two Frogtosser Banneret on the battlefield and Goblin Bushwhacker in hand. Spending all that mana on two 1/1 creatures that don't help you cast some of your finishers will cost games.
Goblin Chieftain most of the time is simply going to be a better card as you go more mid-range in a build. If I want to take advantage of cost-reduction, give me the chieftain for RR that gives me a permanent Bushwacker effect as an example.
If your going to play Ringleader, you really have to treat it like a collected company. 35 creatures is the minimum number of creatures I would want in a deck with him. Ensuring you hit at least 2 creatures is huge. Playing Ringleader ending up finding one goblin and empty the warrens, putting warrens on the bottom of your library is not going to go well.
3 Frogtosser Banneret
1 Goblin Instigator
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Warchief
2 Knucklebone Witch
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Munitions Expert
1 Pashalik Mons
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Skirk Prospector
1 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
3 Aether Vial
Land 21
4 Auntie's Hovel
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Foreboding Ruins
9 Mountain
1 Swamp
Yes, I would run a combination of Frogtosser and Warchief so you have at least 6 total of those cards in the deck. I don't know if you need 4 knucklebone, worth trying. But yes, if you want your deck to be competitive, and your not using vial, then you need a way to dump goblins onto the battlefield cheaply and quickly. 4 Frogtosser, 4 Skirk, and 2 Warchief might be a perfect mix.
You have a very high creature count, and a lot of 3/4 cc creatures. Without vial or Instigator, you might run into a logjam in your hand, especially with 20 lands. I would remove one chieftain and Krenko for 2 Goblin Warchief. I think I would dump one Auntie, to add Krenko, Mob Boss or Legion Warboss. I think you should lean more into the dying of your goblins more to maximize it.
Being able to counter a planeswalker is a nice offset to Trickbind. I think it sees at least some sideboard play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Nn6ks_kRA
Oathsworn Vampire I think as a one of might be key, since without much set-up it makes Sorin able to lightning Helix every turn for 2 mana, which is insane value.
4 Blood Artist
4 Bloodghast
4 Cordial Vampire
4 Cruel Celebrant
1 Elenda, the Dusk Rose
3 Indulgent Aristocrat
3 Knight of the Ebon Legion
1 Oathsworn Vampire
4 Viscera Seer
2 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
3 Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord
Spell 6
2 Collective Brutality
2 Return to the Ranks
2 Thoughtseize
Land 21
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Silent Clearing
3 Swamp
1 Mutavault
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Time to dust off the Flagstones of Trokair.
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Oust
4 Opt
1 Dovin's Veto
2 Cryptic Command
1 Azorius Charm
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
1 Path to Exile
1 Remand
1 Mana Leak
2 Fatal Push
1 Force of Negation
1 Scheming Symmetry
1 Spell Snare
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Set Adrift
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
A popular sideboard card is still just a sideboard card. This may drop to $5 for awhile, similar to when Stony Silence got reprinted.
Interesting deck, but I don't see explosiveness here. You don't have much ability to get cards in your graveyard. Stitcher works good in an aristocrats/dredge build, but your build looks like a slower deck that doesn't really as much on graveyard.
Cryptbreaker and Collective Brutality can pitch Gravecrawler/Bridge from Below/unnecessary cards. Collective brutality key since it can work to gain us life, discard a card we want in graveyard, kill a creature of ours to potentially draw a card/deal damage/, remove an opponents creature, or be a mini-thoughtseize.
Liliana, Heretical Healer might be an interesting card to try. With stuff like Carrion Feeder, you can sacrifice another zombie, have her create a zombie, flip her, and then bring back a lord or discarded card immediately.
Not sure about relentless dead. Might be too much of a mana drain. Dregscape Zombie or a lord might be a better play
4 Undead Augur
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Gravecrawler
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Wayward Servant
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Death Baron
1 Lazotep Reaver
1 Diregraf Colossus
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 Aether Vial
3 Collective Brutality
1 Path to Exile
1 Fatal Push
2 Bridge from Below