While FoF card advantage will put you ahead, Jace will sometimes fill a similar role and critically has the "potential" to keep you ahead to a point where there is no coming back for a lot of decks, as well as just ending the game himself potentially. FoF can't really do either of those potential cases. While I think card advantage-wise FoF could help fulfill some of a deck's requirements for getting ahead, I don't think it means you would want to remove all jaces for FoFs, because of the other vacancies (keeping you ahead, and winning the game), that removing Jace would create, at least for those potential # of cases where that ends up happening.
I'd say FoF and the new Force are both really great cards. I'd want to try out like 2 FoFs and see how you like it. The new Force seems like it'll be fantastic hitting stuff like Turn 1 vial, Shriekhorn, early goryo's vengeance etc. Hopefully pitching a not so great card to it. Then maybe making up some of that card advantage lost with something like a FoF later on. Also makes it more viable to tap out for Jace vs Tron and just start brainstorming every turn and just force their karn etc.
Holding open cryptic and then having FoF available also sounds so so nice. Same with snapping back a FoF.
Of course its hard to know for sure just how great those cards will be, but I am pretty optimistic.
Well it is fiery temper it's supposed to look this way imo. I mean what were y'all expecting a nice rosy picture? I'm a fan of this art it fits the card.
Alright I believe I've got a juicy winner for enabling Madness in modern.
Maddening Crypt
Land - Swamp Mountain ( : Add B or R to your mana pool.)
As Maddening Crypt enters the battlefield, you may discard a card. If you don't, Maddening Crypt enters the battlefield tapped.
-
So I think this is particularly good for cards such as From Under the Floorboards, Welcome to the Fold, and Avacyn's Judgment because it lets you have to play just 1-2 copies of this land in your deck so that lategame you can fetch this land at the end of your opponent's turn with something like a Bloodstained Mire to fire madness cards off at instant speed (also it lets you fire them off for the full amount of what X can be since it will come into untapped, maximizing X). It also seems fairly balanced in other scenarios (as far as I can tell at least).
The issue this solves I think best is that madness enablers are very bad to have to play in your modern deck for the most part (especially in any type of controlling deck, currently it seems you're kind of forced to play with little jace which is a total bummer), so when it is a land then it doesn't take up important slots in the deck that it needs to otherwise function with.
I feel like if you're trying to make a mystical teachings control deck this set really helped you out, epiphany seems playable in a mystical teachings deck alongside the slaughter card that makes your opponent sac a planeswalker or creature, or both if you have delirium. Finally the invasive surgery card seems like a great tutor target coming in from the sideboard as well for a mystical teachings deck. All in all it seems far more feasible to play mystical teachings deck, is it there yet? idk, probably needs just a little more to get there, but it sure got some help this set.
Lil bolas, I wholeheartedly approve of your selection of Nicol Bolas Art on the thread Always so great to look at bolas in all his different beautiful angles!
yea probably true, altho idk maybe if it had enough strings attached! Like the old "Activate this ability once per turn" clause . Maybe also lose 2 life or something.
The card is indeed very interesting, but I don't like the fact that you need to discard it for it be really interesting.
Yeah, I just am frustrated with the few "modern playable" discard outlets that we have access to atm. Seems like just loothouse and baby jace. Loothouse is kinda expensive (ideally a 0 mana outlet is preferable for maximizing zombies) and baby jace is fine, it just idk it kinda sucks for decks with a lot of counterspells in them since you cant use babyjace to flash those back effectively.
Honestly I'm picturing a Dreadship Reef control deck (along with a loothouse) and with 1-3 of this card in it as a finisher.
I'm Really just hoping that they print better discard outlets, like on a land or something. Something like tap: add (1) colorless mana, and a second ability (0):discard a card, pay 1 life. Or just (0):discard a card. Unsure if they need the life loss for balancing but yeah (they probably do? Maybe discard a card at random, lol :)), the deck definitely wants something like that very badly. Here's to hoping.
Holy crap guys this card is REAL...
Imagine someone plussing a liliana on you when you have like 5-6 mana up, just wow.. the value wtf. This is such a good lategame card too if you can trigger the madness, reminds me of entreat the angels. The lifegain is the thing that Makes this card at all viable though, sucks sooo much taht they come into play tapped(at least the lifegain helps offset this alittle if you're being pressured a lot) but wow this is an Excellent lategame card and still decent in the midgame for sure. I'm Very excited for this thing, tricky part is triggering madness without much mana investment, currently seems like loothouse is the best way to have that function. (jace as well, unfortunately because I don't really like the 2 mana jace! Hopfully the come out with some better madness enablers forthcoming soon!)
Since you're only wanting to go madness mode on this card in the lategame, 1 or 2 loothouses might be fine to run since by the lategame you are likely to run into one of those lands by that point.
This thing is like a nightmare for jund, makes them think twice about using lilianas and thoughtseizes.
lol chalupa omg i remember suggesting a commandeer mystical teachings strategy against tron!!! very glad to see someone actually pulled it off to such success lol !
One idea I also had, although it seems not that great tbh but hey just an idea to throw out there, was parallectric feedback to teachings for to get a later game burn plan vs tron. Idk how good that is but yeah funny at least .
too true haven't seen any placing with the splash either, although innovation has to start somewhere ;)!
Leyline does seem super good vs burn I gotta say :), always happy to have one in the opener vs them, makes them loads slower. I usually try not attacking if they have a creature and just holding back blockers since if I can just hold out till I draw a lifegain aura its pretty much gg.
The key difference is that wear/tear is more flexible. One of our harder matchups is vs. splinter twin and if they have a spellskite down and an exarch and they go for the twin win you can wear away their twin enchantment and it can't be redirected to spellskite. Same thing with path to exile. This has come up for me before and that's why I like it over nature's claim.
i'm not super worried on the mana altho i could see cutting a land if thats a concern. I've seen 21 before and 22 didn't seem that ambitious.
the red splash accomplishes more than just wear/tear it also offers a way to win through multiple ensnaring bridges being recurred through an academy ruins with Fire Whips and it seems like a viable sideboard card in many other matchups in particular the norin the wary soul sisters deck.
Holding open cryptic and then having FoF available also sounds so so nice. Same with snapping back a FoF.
Of course its hard to know for sure just how great those cards will be, but I am pretty optimistic.
Lets you turn 1 thraben turn 2 hold up mana leak as well.
Maddening Crypt
Land - Swamp Mountain
(
As Maddening Crypt enters the battlefield, you may discard a card. If you don't, Maddening Crypt enters the battlefield tapped.
-
So I think this is particularly good for cards such as From Under the Floorboards, Welcome to the Fold, and Avacyn's Judgment because it lets you have to play just 1-2 copies of this land in your deck so that lategame you can fetch this land at the end of your opponent's turn with something like a Bloodstained Mire to fire madness cards off at instant speed (also it lets you fire them off for the full amount of what X can be since it will come into untapped, maximizing X). It also seems fairly balanced in other scenarios (as far as I can tell at least).
The issue this solves I think best is that madness enablers are very bad to have to play in your modern deck for the most part (especially in any type of controlling deck, currently it seems you're kind of forced to play with little jace which is a total bummer), so when it is a land then it doesn't take up important slots in the deck that it needs to otherwise function with.
Yeah, I just am frustrated with the few "modern playable" discard outlets that we have access to atm. Seems like just loothouse and baby jace. Loothouse is kinda expensive (ideally a 0 mana outlet is preferable for maximizing zombies) and baby jace is fine, it just idk it kinda sucks for decks with a lot of counterspells in them since you cant use babyjace to flash those back effectively.
Honestly I'm picturing a Dreadship Reef control deck (along with a loothouse) and with 1-3 of this card in it as a finisher.
I'm Really just hoping that they print better discard outlets, like on a land or something. Something like tap: add (1) colorless mana, and a second ability (0):discard a card, pay 1 life. Or just (0):discard a card. Unsure if they need the life loss for balancing but yeah (they probably do? Maybe discard a card at random, lol :)), the deck definitely wants something like that very badly. Here's to hoping.
Imagine someone plussing a liliana on you when you have like 5-6 mana up, just wow.. the value wtf. This is such a good lategame card too if you can trigger the madness, reminds me of entreat the angels. The lifegain is the thing that Makes this card at all viable though, sucks sooo much taht they come into play tapped(at least the lifegain helps offset this alittle if you're being pressured a lot) but wow this is an Excellent lategame card and still decent in the midgame for sure. I'm Very excited for this thing, tricky part is triggering madness without much mana investment, currently seems like loothouse is the best way to have that function. (jace as well, unfortunately because I don't really like the 2 mana jace! Hopfully the come out with some better madness enablers forthcoming soon!)
Since you're only wanting to go madness mode on this card in the lategame, 1 or 2 loothouses might be fine to run since by the lategame you are likely to run into one of those lands by that point.
This thing is like a nightmare for jund, makes them think twice about using lilianas and thoughtseizes.
One idea I also had, although it seems not that great tbh but hey just an idea to throw out there, was parallectric feedback to teachings for to get a later game burn plan vs tron. Idk how good that is but yeah funny at least
Leyline does seem super good vs burn I gotta say :), always happy to have one in the opener vs them, makes them loads slower. I usually try not attacking if they have a creature and just holding back blockers since if I can just hold out till I draw a lifegain aura its pretty much gg.
i'm not super worried on the mana altho i could see cutting a land if thats a concern. I've seen 21 before and 22 didn't seem that ambitious.
the red splash accomplishes more than just wear/tear it also offers a way to win through multiple ensnaring bridges being recurred through an academy ruins with Fire Whips and it seems like a viable sideboard card in many other matchups in particular the norin the wary soul sisters deck.