Anyone try out any kind of GW variant? I think cards like Travel Preparations and replacing Apostle's Blessing with Faith's Shield wouldn't be too bad of an idea, but I could be wrong
blessing is colorless, can protect against artifacts (relevant).
I'm unsure about what white can bring to the table. travel is rather bad as this deck tends to only have one creature on the board at the same time during most games.
I placed 9th yesterday during the online PTQ (I should have been in the top8 cause I only lost round 5 and 8 over the 8 rounds, but the 8th had a better opponent match win of 0.006)
RUG delver (2/0)
BU Zombies (2/1)
BR Zombies (2/1)
UB Control (2/0)
G mono (0/2)
G mono (2/1)
GR Ramp (2/0)
BR Zombies (0/2)
As you can see, no UW delver (rather strange, but there was only one in top8), and only one good matchup (ramp) during the 8 round. I wouldn't advice anyone to run this deck online if the meta is filled with zombies, mono G and delvers.
A good point for the deck though, is that i bought it for about 40 tixs...
you can't change the target of something to the thing it was already targeting. that's not change. that's just durdling. wild defiance does not trigger off of durdling.
That's what I said. The spell is still a valid target for spellskite's ability though.
I said i would post feedback about PTQ in France, here it is : every one is either running delver or melira. U/G infect is often at least 5% of the field so every one is prepared for the deck :/ I lost the round to top8 against someone who sided in 3 melira (already featuring 4 GSZ :rolleyes:)
I took that to mean that arc trail which can target multiple creatures only was once. Wouldn't that prevent two spellskites from bouncing the same spell back and forth as well?
I'm just trying to understand this, not being difficult. Especially if I'm asked by the same judge this week.
some spell (like seeds of strength) target more than one time. In that case, wild defiance will only trigger once (in the case you target the same creature 3 times obviously).
In our senario, if you target a spellskite with a spell and redirect the spell to the same spellskite, it does nothing. (the spell was already targeting the creature)
In the case of 2 spellskite, you can "bounce" the spell from one to another, and it will keep triggering wild defiance, as a spellskite will become the target of a spell.
First of all, to combo of, you only need ONE corpse cur, as it can bring himself back. Yeah, it's not obvious, but it dies due to state based action before his ability is put onto the stack.
Hasp is right about every thing he said.
I would ditch the squeleton, as they die if you have a summoning out, as well as every other pieces that don't help you combo out. I would add solemn (ramp, stall & cantrip).
Thoughts on Withstand Death? I think I may try out 2 or 3. It saves creatures from ratchet bombs, burn, day of judgment, and any other kill spells. I am mainly considering this because of ratchet bombs and days
I've considered this card, and concluded without tests that it didn't worth it. Which means you could test it, but here is my train of thought :
it would replace either ranger's guile or blessing
- you loose +1/+1 compared to ranger's guile (does matter)
- you still loose to vapor snag (which is, imo, worse than loosing to day)
- you loose can't be block compared to blessing
- it cost G (compared to colorless)
- it doesn't cost you 2 lifes to play.
It's only better than blessing when it comes to days and ratchet, so i'm not convinced it should be played (in my meta, terminus is more played than day). Could be wrong though.
Edit : Also forgot about tragic slip ! can't be targeted is def better IMHO.
I'm assuming that deck is wolf-run, it is one of our best matchups.
Aside from Thalia and Spellskite, are there any other early spells/creatures that are a nuisance to us?
spellskite is not that bad when you have a defiance out. it can only "steal" 6 spell (+gut shot) as ranger's guile and blessing target our own stuff (and can't be redirected)
bone fire is a pain if topdecked, as you roughly have only blessing to deal with it.
Im a bit worried about zombies though, i havent run into them, but i know they play a bit of removal and very fast deck, anyone ran into them?
I found zombies to be our worst MU. moreso if they play fume spitter, mortapod and geth's verdict which aren't affected by wild defiance, and edicts can't be dealt with easily. They also have a fast clock if left unchecked.
it's 5 manas, and nexus can be killed :/ stealing an inferno titan would be fun, but it's already a good MU
We have a PTQ on Sunday, some fellow players may play this deck (I still don't know what i'm gonna play as far as i'm concerned). I'll keep you posted about the results of the deck, and the number of people playing if i ever have the information.
Interesting.. I find the numbers a bit quirky. Why NOT the full 4 glistener main deck?
can you post the link to this event?
Just thinking an additional 2 Blighted Agent for more reliable creatures on turn 2. Though the deck with those 3 creatures + inkmoth is like running 16 creatures. will give it a shot
The elfs aren't good on their own, and don't work well with the rest of the pack (don't target) but with the lone artful dodge (you need to play the blessing to give protection before the combat step, allowing your opponent to kill it in resp. so you need more protection spell to "go off". I don't even talk about a board with more than one color. Still, I was afraid of not drawing an infect creature so i ran 3, which seemed to be a good compromise. The deck doesn't want to load the board with critters, so drawing a second elf might often be a dead draw.
the number of creatures is enough I think, even though you might loose a game to it during a big event. Just be sure to win the other 2
Some information about the tournement itself : 57 players (yep, not a whole lot, but the place was difficult to travel to.)
I played against : RG ramp, RG aggro x 2, naya Pod, UWb control during the rounds (drawing the last against tezz, giving up the toss in the top8 to lock my place in it)
during the top8 I faced in order : zombie / Tezzeret / RG aggro.
3 STCgames opens
1 Grand Prix
A couple of days Online......
.....and AVR has made almost no impact on Standard.
You would think with it being a big set that we would get 1 or 2 brand new archtypes
DKA which was a small set brought us Zombies...it also made tokens a viable deck.
AVR is barely being seen much less making an impact.
Don't forget that some changes are also what you CANNOT see.
I'd say that the bare existence of cavern of soul kicked UB control out of the competitive scene.
OK. Thanks. One small question though. If an O-Ring can ruin our day why not run Redirect instead of Negate?
By running Negate we're essentially saying "We don't care what creatures you put down. We only care about spells that target us/our permanents/other permanents of yours we don't like". Wouldn't it make more sense to direct that pesky O-Ring/burn spell to one of our opponents threats? Or is just there for Planeswalkers?
redirect doesn't really take care of O-ring
Negate is just way better overall, it counters PWs (mostly karn and liliana), spell that do not target (i needed to counter a DoJ once, so that my opponent wouldn't be able to kill his own red titan while he was venser-locked)
On a more general note, negate is 1U and redirect UU, redirecting burn is useless unless it is lethal in the first place (which it should never be if you opponent play well).
Well negate is almost always the better spell to have in your hand
It's not as much a turbo fog as a "keep jace 3/4 turns on the board and win", where the fog shines. Jace serves double duty as both a kill and a turbo when you can't afford to mill them. Unfortunatly, rites and atlas aren't reliable enough to keep the engine runing. A single O-ring on a rite can lead the deck to loose pretty badly (the beast are a catch all, to nuke PW or enchantments).
I'm only running one venser because it has absolutly no interaction with the deck. Yet sometimes, you win on the spot thanks to a dignitary, so it worth at least one slot.
For those of us running Past in Flames, what do you think about adding in a few Burning Vengeance. Gives us reach, cost 3 mana which is perfect with the priest and we deal damage just by playing rituals from our yard to keep playing stuff.
not good. rituals want creatures to be effective, past in flames want draw/mill effect and burning vengeance is none of them :/
A single burn (at the stake) spell should end the game normaly (may be helped by some attack phase).
I really like MrCowFart deck by the way, can't wait to test it.
blessing is colorless, can protect against artifacts (relevant).
I'm unsure about what white can bring to the table. travel is rather bad as this deck tends to only have one creature on the board at the same time during most games.
I played the following list :
4 Spellskite
4 Wild Defiance
2 Livewire lash
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Ranger's Guile
4 Apostle's Blessing
1 artful dodge
3 titanic growth
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Hinterland Harbor
6 Forest
6 Island
3 Glistener Elf
4 Mental Misstep
4 Negate (i would change back to leak i think, the online meta is too different)
2 Naturalize
1 Disperse
1 titanic growth
During the PTQ I faced :
RUG delver (2/0)
BU Zombies (2/1)
BR Zombies (2/1)
UB Control (2/0)
G mono (0/2)
G mono (2/1)
GR Ramp (2/0)
BR Zombies (0/2)
As you can see, no UW delver (rather strange, but there was only one in top8), and only one good matchup (ramp) during the 8 round. I wouldn't advice anyone to run this deck online if the meta is filled with zombies, mono G and delvers.
A good point for the deck though, is that i bought it for about 40 tixs...
That's what I said. The spell is still a valid target for spellskite's ability though.
I said i would post feedback about PTQ in France, here it is : every one is either running delver or melira. U/G infect is often at least 5% of the field so every one is prepared for the deck :/ I lost the round to top8 against someone who sided in 3 melira (already featuring 4 GSZ :rolleyes:)
some spell (like seeds of strength) target more than one time. In that case, wild defiance will only trigger once (in the case you target the same creature 3 times obviously).
In our senario, if you target a spellskite with a spell and redirect the spell to the same spellskite, it does nothing. (the spell was already targeting the creature)
In the case of 2 spellskite, you can "bounce" the spell from one to another, and it will keep triggering wild defiance, as a spellskite will become the target of a spell.
First of all, to combo of, you only need ONE corpse cur, as it can bring himself back. Yeah, it's not obvious, but it dies due to state based action before his ability is put onto the stack.
Hasp is right about every thing he said.
I would ditch the squeleton, as they die if you have a summoning out, as well as every other pieces that don't help you combo out. I would add solemn (ramp, stall & cantrip).
I've considered this card, and concluded without tests that it didn't worth it. Which means you could test it, but here is my train of thought :
it would replace either ranger's guile or blessing
- you loose +1/+1 compared to ranger's guile (does matter)
- you still loose to vapor snag (which is, imo, worse than loosing to day)
- you loose can't be block compared to blessing
- it cost G (compared to colorless)
- it doesn't cost you 2 lifes to play.
It's only better than blessing when it comes to days and ratchet, so i'm not convinced it should be played (in my meta, terminus is more played than day). Could be wrong though.
Edit : Also forgot about tragic slip ! can't be targeted is def better IMHO.
spellskite is not that bad when you have a defiance out. it can only "steal" 6 spell (+gut shot) as ranger's guile and blessing target our own stuff (and can't be redirected)
bone fire is a pain if topdecked, as you roughly have only blessing to deal with it.
I found zombies to be our worst MU. moreso if they play fume spitter, mortapod and geth's verdict which aren't affected by wild defiance, and edicts can't be dealt with easily. They also have a fast clock if left unchecked.
it's 5 manas, and nexus can be killed :/ stealing an inferno titan would be fun, but it's already a good MU
We have a PTQ on Sunday, some fellow players may play this deck (I still don't know what i'm gonna play as far as i'm concerned). I'll keep you posted about the results of the deck, and the number of people playing if i ever have the information.
The elfs aren't good on their own, and don't work well with the rest of the pack (don't target) but with the lone artful dodge (you need to play the blessing to give protection before the combat step, allowing your opponent to kill it in resp. so you need more protection spell to "go off". I don't even talk about a board with more than one color. Still, I was afraid of not drawing an infect creature so i ran 3, which seemed to be a good compromise. The deck doesn't want to load the board with critters, so drawing a second elf might often be a dead draw.
the number of creatures is enough I think, even though you might loose a game to it during a big event. Just be sure to win the other 2
Some information about the tournement itself : 57 players (yep, not a whole lot, but the place was difficult to travel to.)
I played against : RG ramp, RG aggro x 2, naya Pod, UWb control during the rounds (drawing the last against tezz, giving up the toss in the top8 to lock my place in it)
during the top8 I faced in order : zombie / Tezzeret / RG aggro.
I'd like to thank you guys, as I found the list from where I started testing here : http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8398229&postcount=143
I would even add most deck main deck a divine offering.
So no, as long as sword are widely played (till october ^^") this card has no potentiel.
Don't forget that some changes are also what you CANNOT see.
I'd say that the bare existence of cavern of soul kicked UB control out of the competitive scene.
redirect doesn't really take care of O-ring
Negate is just way better overall, it counters PWs (mostly karn and liliana), spell that do not target (i needed to counter a DoJ once, so that my opponent wouldn't be able to kill his own red titan while he was venser-locked)
On a more general note, negate is 1U and redirect UU, redirecting burn is useless unless it is lethal in the first place (which it should never be if you opponent play well).
Well negate is almost always the better spell to have in your hand
4 Ponder
4 fog
2 snapcaster mage
3 negate
4 rites of florishing
2 clinging mists
2 beast within
4 day of judgment
4 stonehorn dignitary
3 amass the component/ otherwordly atlass
1 venser, the sojourner
3 jace, memory adept
It's not as much a turbo fog as a "keep jace 3/4 turns on the board and win", where the fog shines. Jace serves double duty as both a kill and a turbo when you can't afford to mill them. Unfortunatly, rites and atlas aren't reliable enough to keep the engine runing. A single O-ring on a rite can lead the deck to loose pretty badly (the beast are a catch all, to nuke PW or enchantments).
I'm only running one venser because it has absolutly no interaction with the deck. Yet sometimes, you win on the spot thanks to a dignitary, so it worth at least one slot.
not good. rituals want creatures to be effective, past in flames want draw/mill effect and burning vengeance is none of them :/
A single burn (at the stake) spell should end the game normaly (may be helped by some attack phase).
I really like MrCowFart deck by the way, can't wait to test it.
(for 2R1RRR only)