MTG Salvation

Quote from The Fluff »

What kind of card patching exactly.. is it increase cmc?. Games on paper would be awkward as when I for example play a Goblin Guide, what's written on the card is R but I had to tap two mana because WoTC "patched" it to become 1R. Patching the rules text of a card would be even worse.. I would pretty much prefer bans to patching.

Yeah exactly, its not like there is a ton of granularity in some of these cards.

Guide is a good example. R for 2/2 Haste with upside/downside? Fine, and clearly playable. How about RR? How about 1R? How about R and 1/2 or 2/1?

Its a really bad slope to get on.

I would rather my deck be banned, than have the entire game/format thrown into chaos like that.

I wouldn't keep it in post board, but if you had to hedge by including Surgical in your main board going into a meta of

Dredge
Bridge
Phoenix
Humans
UW
Tron

Would that be the worst thing?

Instead of aggressively jumping on every point, let's look at the nuances and assume the best of each other?

Quote from k0no »

Haha.

I just want to state, before the site gets archived forever, that the nonsense mental gymnastics people are doing, in order to get riled up and call for bans for a card that isn't even released yet are staggering.

....

Here's to a more positive discourse and the faint hope that the new website in the works curates spaces that engender positive, useful discussion instead of a blank slate for useless uninformed negativity to rule.

I think noting things that are new, and explosive, and can look absurd, is not an issue. I think calling for emergency ban's are hyperbolic certainly, but a lot of your post also boils down to people wanting different things.

For everyone that wants a churning, rotational meta, there is AT LEAST one person, that wants to play 'their deck' that for some is the only deck they could afford to build, to remain viable (if not optimal) and competitive.

People who are satisfied, by and large, do not go to forums to talk about things. They go there to complain about things, look for answers and help.

Personally, I find we can watch the trends of the online/high end meta unfold, and for that purpose this thread and twitter, have served me quite well over the years.

Quote from DaveJacinto »

Is the format broken? If we look at legacy... Force of Will is the safety valve of the format, a free spell that interacts with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format. In legacy the stack is where the degenerate decks win from... In modern our stack is the graveyard. Can't we accept that maybe we should just be playing Surgicals main?
If we really think about it Surgical is 100% analogue to Force of Will in legacy. It's card disadvantage, free, instant speed, costs life, deals with the degenerate stuff that happen in the format while being somewhat mediocre to bad in the fair match ups. It's also a card that we sideboard out in a lot of matches.

Probably I'll get some bash over this but it's a different point of view. To be honest it eases my mind looking at things this way. My only grief is that surgicals are super expensive (same as force of will) and playing 4 is a big hit in the budget.

I think you are exactly right. 'Busted' is just down to ones definition. Just like 'Fair' 'Unfair' 'Degenerate' 'Linear'.

Is anything that is NOT Eldrazi Winter, NOT 'busted'? Maybe?

I said it last page. Modern is a GY format.

Snaps
Dredge
Phoenix
KCI tomfoolery
Bridgevine weirdness
Faithless Looting
Versions of Mardu
Storm

There are decks that range from UW Control, all the way to this new Bridge deck in terms of the scale from Fair, to Unfair, Control to Combo, and they are all using the Graveyard.

Busted, well that just comes down to ones interpretation, but there has not been a time in the last 8 months you can skip on GY hate, even MAIN DECK, and expect to do well at a large event.

Its a fundamentally fair card, and 3 mana is too much for the format. Its cool though, the new Bridge from Below deck looks mighty fair, and should fit right in with Tron, Phoenix, Affinity, and Dredge.

Hymn should be in Modern too.

Quote from BlueTronFTW »

I will never understand the appeal of LSV or any of those CFB type dudes. Whatever, one more mystery of life.

Its no different from being invested in a sports team, or a particular deck in Magic. People enjoy things more when personally invested in what they are watching, and the literally billions invested/spent in Sports is proof of that. That's all this is.

Anyway, its no conspiracy around the London Mull. They want a more consistent opening hand for people. Fine.

Quote from The Fluff »

I see. thanks for the info.

Wondering if combo decks would get stronger with this?
Maybe wotc added Force of Negation and fluster to modern, as a pre-emptive measure against combo decks getting better with the new rule.

If I was a betting man, I would say it was done because of LSV mulling to death in the PT Final. It had a lot of viewers, and a lot of bad feels for what was a great run of a fan favorite.

I dont believe its anything more complicated than 'we want a bit less variance at the start, so people can at least get to play the game' unlike LSV, who just lost that one.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

London Mulligan is a bliss for Modern. Let's be real, it will favor actual games instead of mulligans into Oblivion.

Enjoy the combo's my friend.

I'm glad Sam is no longer with Wizards.

"The cards where we are wrong and that ended up much more powerful than we had expected are some of the most iconic cards from the last decade—Primeval Titan; Jace, the Mind Sculptor; Stoneforge Mystic; Bitterblossom; Bridge from Below; Tarmogoyf; etc. These cards are not always the most fun to play with or against, and we have subsequently had to ban them from some formats, but the cards still exist in the same form they did when we printed them."

Prime Time - Fine in Modern.
Jace - Fine in Modern
Bitterblossom - Not Good in Modern.
Bridge - Not Good in Modern.
Goyf - Fatal Pushed in Modern.

If thats the metric, SFM comes off next announcement.

Are we going to get an izzetmage set review? I cannot move on till I see one.

Devoted midrange black deck, yo.


I think Abzan Company decks are coming back into modern.

I wonder what a devoted black deck with these cards look like. Or if it would splash white, which is probable.

Whichever. I'm massively bitter as a thoughtseize player with Horizon due to the awful spoilers so far in the archetype, but I can admit this set will change modern quite a bit as a whole. I wonder what changes to become the top decks.

Quote from Lord Seth »

The inclusion of the Swords makes me wonder if we may see the printing of a "fixed" Stoneforge Mystic that will work with the Swords but not Batterskull (e.g. a Stoneforge Mystic that only works with equipment that costs 3 or less).

I think you're looking for Goblin Engineer.

Quote from cfusionpm »

]
It's more a matter of I don't want someone misquoting or misrepresenting, to me, what my beliefs or views are or should be. Especially when I have explained them thoroughly multiple times. Honestly, I don't care as much as it probably seems like online, but online discussions usually trend toward extremes fairly quickly (I'm also only teaching part time this year to spend time with my newborn, and have WAY TOO MUCH FREE TIME to sit in front of a computer). For me personally, my tie is mostly because I spent thousands of dollars and years of my life playing Snap Bolt decks and loving every minute of it. All I want in Magic is to play a competitive Snap Bolt deck, which is what I'd spent the last 3 and a half years searching for (and found a few before Probe and Push took away Delver, Geist became irrelevant, and Moon ain't what it used to be, no matter what wincon you shove in, etc). All the while, having people tell me to play these other things that are nothing like it, and to shut up and enjoy it because it plays islands. Whatevs. I play bad decks and no longer care about winning.

Really this is not a valid general argument. A personal desire or grudge, sure. But we all have one. I would love to have a competitive UB Faeries deck or a competitive Cruel Ultimatum/Grixis deck, but I don't have it. And no, I don't want to play GDS, hence I am not playing it. I do jam my Faeries or Grixis control almost every FNM, unless I want to practice UW for a bigger tournament. I get frustrated that UB colors get stupid mill cards. But it is what it is, there is still a playable Faeries deck, and I pilot it to the best of my abilities (admittedly not that great). That's how ANY format works.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I'm really not understanding the *****ing about counter spell.

This is how people can complain about Counterspell:

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Sweet art work but it looks underwhelming.


I'm not sure I love the idea of SFM being unbanned anymore...I think UW midrange/control would see a major restructure but I don't love the risk. I'm beginning to agree---what is she benefitting in modern right now? DnT? It's certainly not UW decks. Abzan...has some serious fundamental issues that is outdated in modern now. Abzan would still be a very bad deck.

The difference is that Counterspell is a specific card people want and what was given wasn't good enough compared to SFM being a potential and you saying it's not good enough.

Prohibit is a bad card. It's always mana parody or more then what you countered. It'll join the conditional 2 mana counterspells that are worse then logic knot family. Force of negation (They really could have picked a better name) and flusterstorm are sideboard cards. I also haven't seen ANY good removal in this set yet beyond edict. Usually these supplemental sets are flush with good removal.

And now we can safely say that Planebound Accomplice is a complete idiot. C'mon dude, 1 mana discount?

Quote from ktkenshinx »

We can do better.

So can WOTC.

Remember when printed small Eldrazi, knowing about the manabase, because it would be cool and fun?
Remember when they said Ancestral Vision would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Thopter Sword would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Jace would help grindy slow blue decks?
Remember when they said Twin stifled blue diversity?
Remember when they bombarded blue with specifically UW cards (stifling diversity) and it still wasn't good enough for sustained competitive relevance?
Remember when they gave Dredge Cathartic Reunion and free 3/3s?
Remember when they printed a free, uninteractable Lightning Helix for Dredge?
Remember when they thought GGT was the problem with Dredge?
Remember when they thought BBE was the problem with Jund?
Remember when Jace and BBE came back and did nothing?
Remember when Tron kept getting new toys to become more obnoxious all the time?
Remember how they keep printing busted colorless cards for Tron/Prison?
Remember how they let Phoenix dominate GPs at disturbing levels for months?
Remember how green and red still have the best cantrips in Modern?
Remember how they think any blue cantrip has to be worse than Serum Visions?
Remember how they think Stoneforge Mystic is too good for Modern?
Remember how they think Counterspell is too good for Modern?
Remember when they printed that wacky new pump spell so Infect can T2 kill better?
Remember how they view diversity from a name standpoint and not archetype?
Remember how they hide and obfuscate information in order to create a false narrative of format health?
Remember when they printed Iconic Masters, and it lacked any sort of Iconic cards?
Remember when they printed a celebration of 25 years of Magic, and left out the most celebrated cards of Magic's history?
Remember when they printed a Modern-focused set, filled with maybe half a dozen playable cards, and a ton of Commander and Limited chaff?
Remember when they missed the mark entirely on what it takes to make a card playable in Modern?
And then there's recent Standard...
Remember when they printed ridiculous graveyard abuse cards with no way to fight it?
Remember when they printed Energy, and no way to interact with it?
Remember when no one in R&D noticed the Saheeli combo, spotted within 15 minutes of its spoiler?
Remember when they printed fetchlands and fetchable duals with a tri-color themed set?
Remember when they ignored all the other formats because they were too busy putting out the dumpster fire that was Standard?
Remember how they continued to ignore Modern almost entirely to focus on the "new! better!" Ravnica Standard?

There are likely many more instances, but these are just off the top of my head and I think you get the idea. You make the case that many of these things are isolated and specific events. This is true. But when taken on the whole, they indicate a pattern of incompetence, a lack of understanding of the format, and a specific desire to force their own narrative about what the format is by hiding data and telling us that our miserable experiences are just isolated small events.

Quote from pierrebai »

After aladdin, now lion king? Has WotC got a cross-promotion with Disney?

We did just have Gatewatch:Endgame.

True, but it's a relevant thing to keep in mind as many folks think of these type of premium sets as a limited time only deal. Nobody said cards will be dirt cheap, but they'll be cheaper than they would be had they been coming from a Modern Masters set.