Your doing an all in version, and thats fine. A lot of the other concepts being pushed are not All in on the Combo aspect, and that doesnt mean this is Twin like, I play Twin, and this is nothing like Twin.
If you find success, then good on you. :]
I actually want to fit this into Wug Emeria Titan...
No, I dont miss Tasigur main, he comes in Games 2/3 if I feel I'm on the beat down plan or grind out. Ashiok is a pet card, I've fit him into Esper builds, and if I want to push into the Control/Removal game he can come in. If you are facing a slow deck they wont expect Planeswalkers in Twin. The fact I bring very little Black game 1 also throws people who think I'm on pure UR.
I've been finding 1 Command to be sufficient. Its amazing value, especially late game with Snap, but my Game 1 plan is to try and just combo out, and there are few cases where Game 1 Artifact Hate is going to save us.
Most common usage for me has been to pull Snapcaster out of the yard, and pop a cheap creature EOT.
I run 4 Deceiver/2 Pestermite and 4 Twin, but often drop 2 Pestermites/1 Twin for game 2 unless I go full control, then I leave a couple Twins.
Twin on Snaps is awesome, I've been able to grind out wins on the back of that several times over the last couple weekends.
Either way, I think thats my issue. Retreat is really good, to the point of warping the 'I turn my creature sides' deck into something that is better, but not what I want out of it, which is mostly...a Teir 2 deck where I'm not smashing folks on T3 from 20 to 0. :]
Adding 1 Island, 1 Hallowed Fountain is minimal investment to the mana base and we have mana dorks where a hierarch is hardly bad. I guess I just think it gives that instant win potential, and it feels off to me.
Also Geist is easy to get in, heck you could put the combo in Counter cat if you wanted.
Edit: maybe that's the issue, it isn't about synergy, it's just + Retreat and the power level shifts hard?
You want to run Retreat which is a 3 drop and not a powerhouse on it's own. You want to run Knight which is a 3 drop. You're talking Geist? You're talking a lot of 3 drops. A lot of 3 drops is midrange, not aggro. You could build an aggressive Bant deck around that but it wouldn't be a Zoo. If you're just splashing Blue into a Red/Green deck you need to ask yourself why not drop the Knight and run Deceiver Exarch and Splinter Twin as well.
I think I've seen idSurge in the Zoo thread; the typical Retreat Zoo list is Naya Splash Blue. It's Medium Zoo that's relatively similar to current Naya Collected Company Zoo builds.
Yeah it very easily just slots in to my big zoo (or even just a rush zoo its not hard), and changes up the dynamic. Its not a terrible thing, its just a change to how the deck plays and warps it in a way that feels like not so much what I 'signed up for' if that makes sense. :]
I run twin, it's the main deck I play in mtgo and the only one I have in paper.
I agree, retreat by itself isn't strong, I guess the power level just isn't what I am used to in either 1 drop or Big zoo, so it feels like quite a jump from a more fair/casual whatever you want to call it to a potential teir one list that can very much pull a win off a top deck. Which is fine, just not the same power level at all that it was before.
Adding 1 Island, 1 Hallowed Fountain is minimal investment to the mana base and we have mana dorks where a hierarch is hardly bad. I guess I just think it gives that instant win potential, and it feels off to me.
Also Geist is easy to get in, heck you could put the combo in Counter cat if you wanted.
Edit: maybe that's the issue, it isn't about synergy, it's just + Retreat and the power level shifts hard?
So some rambling here so please bear with me but is Retreat good for the aggro archetype to have access to?
I like zoo builds I like to jam some creatures for explosive turn 2 attacks. Against Tier decks, this often ends up in a few ways.
1 you face a slow deck or draw and rush them finish with burn.
2 you face a sweeper/removal heavy deck, and cannot keep pressure, with no real CA, you lose the long game. Collected Company fixed this a bit.
3 you face down a synergy aggro (ally or slivers) and get buried under cumulative advantage that our dumb beats look...dumb beside.
4 our interaction isn't high so we have to just take it against combo sometimes.
I think everyone will admit that zoo type builds are teir 2 at best but I see this combo as something of a cheap out maybe? Like, I don't know what I am trying to articulate but I felt bad I guess that my 'dumb kids deck' could do something I am very used to seeing and doing with my Twin. I don't know but it feels pretty strong, and I wouldn't be shocked to see Zoo go to teir 1 with this.
This is an artifact of MTGO. I have had full land hands, mulligan to no land hands, FAR too many times for there to not be something wrong with the shuffle mechanic.
Online has more burn, more combo, more twin, and more Blue than paper events would seem to indicate (based on the metagame threads) so there's a lot of instants to Dispel. I also prefer to not lose the counter wars with Grixis players that there are a lot of online, as well as Delver builds.
If you find success, then good on you. :]
I actually want to fit this into Wug Emeria Titan...
Maty what are you settled on right now as a list? I must have missed it.
I've been finding 1 Command to be sufficient. Its amazing value, especially late game with Snap, but my Game 1 plan is to try and just combo out, and there are few cases where Game 1 Artifact Hate is going to save us.
Most common usage for me has been to pull Snapcaster out of the yard, and pop a cheap creature EOT.
I run 4 Deceiver/2 Pestermite and 4 Twin, but often drop 2 Pestermites/1 Twin for game 2 unless I go full control, then I leave a couple Twins.
Its a ton of fun, running the blue splash for Venser, Detention Sphere and Supreme Verdict.
Either way, I think thats my issue. Retreat is really good, to the point of warping the 'I turn my creature sides' deck into something that is better, but not what I want out of it, which is mostly...a Teir 2 deck where I'm not smashing folks on T3 from 20 to 0. :]
Yeah it very easily just slots in to my big zoo (or even just a rush zoo its not hard), and changes up the dynamic. Its not a terrible thing, its just a change to how the deck plays and warps it in a way that feels like not so much what I 'signed up for' if that makes sense. :]
I agree, retreat by itself isn't strong, I guess the power level just isn't what I am used to in either 1 drop or Big zoo, so it feels like quite a jump from a more fair/casual whatever you want to call it to a potential teir one list that can very much pull a win off a top deck. Which is fine, just not the same power level at all that it was before.
Also Geist is easy to get in, heck you could put the combo in Counter cat if you wanted.
Edit: maybe that's the issue, it isn't about synergy, it's just + Retreat and the power level shifts hard?
I like zoo builds I like to jam some creatures for explosive turn 2 attacks. Against Tier decks, this often ends up in a few ways.
1 you face a slow deck or draw and rush them finish with burn.
2 you face a sweeper/removal heavy deck, and cannot keep pressure, with no real CA, you lose the long game. Collected Company fixed this a bit.
3 you face down a synergy aggro (ally or slivers) and get buried under cumulative advantage that our dumb beats look...dumb beside.
4 our interaction isn't high so we have to just take it against combo sometimes.
I think everyone will admit that zoo type builds are teir 2 at best but I see this combo as something of a cheap out maybe? Like, I don't know what I am trying to articulate but I felt bad I guess that my 'dumb kids deck' could do something I am very used to seeing and doing with my Twin. I don't know but it feels pretty strong, and I wouldn't be shocked to see Zoo go to teir 1 with this.
1. Forest -> Hierarch
2. Temple Garden -> Knight
3. Retreat -> Combo kill.
I felt bad.
(On topic, I havent joined/played in the league as I didnt know about it, but Ill do so!)