I dont believe BridgeVine was teir 1 at all. It had no plan b whatsoever.
In the end, I would rather we have Hogaak/Altar, than Bridge/Altar.
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Jun 25, 2019Posted in: ModernQuote from Thenarus »I think that if any one card should get banned if (when) it comes to that, Bridge is the true abusive engine card. I think banning Hogaak effectively takes Altar out of playability, and that a graveyard-based deck with a mill angle would be more competitive and fun (even taken down a peg by losing Bridge) than an otherwise pre-Horizons Bridgevine deck with Carrion Feeder added.
I think thats fair. Its not like Hogaak is some stupid pushed thing like several of the new Eldrazi, but a card that has real hoops to jump through to cast. Altar as a secondary win condition is fine, if that win condition is not hitting the table and rendering someone's deck to 0 with very few options to respond to it.
Removing both Bridge and Altar, would obliterate the deck, while leaving Hogaak and Altar would give us 3 distinct flavours (at least) of GY decks.
Dredge -> Creatures and Conflag
Phoenix -> Creatures and Burn/'Storming'
Hogaak -> Creatures and Mill
The problem is like someone's signature used to point out here, that for Combo to be viable (and Hogaak is Combo with the Altar) it must be faster than Aggro, the problem is...well Modern is a Turn 4 format, at least in theory, and being 'dead' to Mill before you play a 3rd land, is not acceptable.
My vote will remain Bridge. Lets see how the weekend goes. :]
Meanwhile, I'm playing some Zombies + Yawgmoth.
Jun 25, 2019idSurge posted a message on [M20] Core Set Magic 2020 Previews: Modern DiscussionI swear, this set could have been sold as a Modern Horizon's, and nobody would blink. A lot of things look close to broken.Posted in: Modern
Jun 25, 2019Posted in: ModernQuote from Melkor »Quote from Thenarus »The Altar plan might not be deterministic without Bridge, but would it still be potent enough to be viable? Banning Hoogak would certainly neuter Altar to the point where it wouldn't be.
Banning Hogaak would certainly kill this version of the deck. So at the cost of the actual most interesting design in the set, we would get a reprieve....for what a month or two? Then something else steps into that same shell and the cool card is banned for years. If something needs to go, it's not the big beater that requires work, it's the stuff that keeps taking these fair and neat cards and doing awful things with them. Like Eye of Ugin wasn't broken, it was the genius who decided to make Eldrazi do something the tribe was never meant to have.
Eye was broken.
Regardless, I agree. Dont ban Hogaak. Thats a neat card doing crazy things...on the back of Bridge, and Altar.
Just remove Bridge if you are of the 'it has interesting lines of play' mindset, or both Bridge and Altar/Ghast if you want to 'nuke from orbit'.
I also fear the F2F event is what may happen this weekend, and why I'm absolutely BEGGING people to play Hogaak at the GP/SCG event. If its anything but overwhelming, we are stuck with this thing for at least a few months, and that would really suck.
Jun 24, 2019Posted in: ModernQuote from FoodChainGoblins »
Yep. You force your opponent to have TWO different ways to stop your angles AND a win-con of their own.
And this is why Control becomes Prison, and you are better off asking Questions than providing Answers.
Jun 24, 2019Posted in: ModernQuote from ed06288 »"You can't spend mana to cast this spell"
As if that's a big drawback.
Also, just ban the hogaak, altar is cool and bridge was never a problem before
I really hope they just go for the throat. Why even risk it? I don't want another Forsythe 'I think it has interesting lines of play' nonsense. I want 'In the interests of competitive diversity' nuke it from orbit.
I'm 64 days from really not caring, but I would like to be able to run something other than 2 Surgical, a RIP, Ravenous Trap x 3 in my 75 until then.
Give me a few months to play Mentor.
Jun 24, 2019Yep, I would argue that's why BridgeVine before this never took off. It only had a creature plan.Posted in: Modern
Dredge has Conflag.
Phoenix has a number of B Sides.
This new deck is just an even faster Dredge with an engine that has a bonus of milling your opponent on your own Turn 3 and the only meaningful answers are all Turn 0 and/or free.
It really is an abomination that has no place existing in Modern.
Funny thing is that they can nuke it, and Dredge wouldn't be hit at all.
Altar and Bridge.
Jun 24, 2019First: Anyone that reads me, knows I believe the ban list is a joke. Comparing Preordain to Looting is problematic, but it is what it is. With Phoenix around, there's just no reason to unban it.Posted in: Modern
Second: Looting actually makes a lot of these decks. Yes its absurd levels of power, for the decks that can use it, but its not like you see it in Burn, or UWR Control, or "Insert deck with Red that is not a GY Deck".
Honestly it's a lot of sour grapes I think, and again I get it, that Red has the more format applicable Cantrip/Draw, followed by bloody GREEN in the format.
Anyone thats read this thread long enough knows I'm biased towards Blue.
I do agree, if Wizards cared about the format with decks which are 10's of Thousands of Dollars, they would have banned Brainstorm, but Looting is still not Brainstorm, even in decks which can abuse the discard.
Third: Probe was not a bad ban, on the end of it. It really wasnt. Delver would suck, Grixis Control would have morphed to Grixis Mid as it has done, and Storm adapted and become actually better for it.
Fourth: Ban Hogaak. That deck is going to ruin 2 events, if the Pro/Grinders have any kind of integrity and actually play the best deck.
Jun 23, 2019Posted in: ModernQuote from Renegade Rallier »July 5th is when it starts for paper I believe. So depending on the paper modern event calendar after that... well we'll just see how it goes.
1st SCG Modern Open post LM is 27/28 July.
1st Modern Magic Fest seems to be Barcelona 26 July.
So uhhh yeah, won't expect anything until end of August for paper magic to impact any decisions. Only online data for pretty much the whole of July.
Bleh. Off by a week! That means we will have to probably endure people saying the Mull will somehow fix it...now I REALLY hope those 2 events are utterly dominated by Hogaak.
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