Does anyone have any thoughts on a version of UR Gifts Storm with Pyromancer Ascension? Opt being legal means we can have 12 one mana cantrips to help turn on Ascension.
Frankly I just want to play Pyromancer Ascension because I liked that version of the deck better than the current one, and I've had a lot more experience playing with Ascension than without. I tried this sort of thing with the Gifts package as well as the Ascensions a while ago, but with Faithless Looting instead of Opt. While it would seem like it's diluting your game plan too much, in my opinion it worked pretty well. Anyway I'm going to try it.
Lands (16)
2 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Steam Vents
4 Spirebluff Canals
1 Shivan Reef Spells (44)
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Faithless Looting
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Past in Flames
2 Grapeshot
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose Sideboard (15)
2 Dispel
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Echoing Truth
2 Blood Moon
3 Shatterstorm
3 Empty the Warrens
What happened to Pyromancer Ascension? Finkel has been playing this deck on stream and gets asked why he is still playing Pyromancer Ascension a lot, to which he basically says "Why wouldn't I be? It's still a great card." Is there any merit to builds like this with Pyromancer Ascension?
I'll chime in. Resolving a Pyromancer Ascension is basically the best thing you can do against control decks, particularly grixis which has a very difficult time removing it. If I see a hand that can play a T2 ascension (or in this case a T2 defense grid T3 ascension), it would have to be pretty bad for me to mulligan. This hand is not really anywhere near bad enough to make me want to mulligan. Sure it doesn't have many cantrips or ways to activate ascension, but I think storm cares a fair bit about having a critical mass of spells. This is a fine hand with 2 lands 6 spells. I really don't think that mulliganing would give you a better hand very often.
Also, you get to draw T1 from probe, T2 from draw step and T3 from draw step. That's 3 draws to find a cantrip to play T3 if you draw a land. If you don't draw a land, well that's 4 draws to find one to play T4. Let's say you've boarded +3 empty +1 defense grid, -1 grapeshot -1 past in flames -2 thought scour. You have 20 card draw spells left in the deck (counting manamorphose). You have a 77% chance to draw one by T3 and an 86% chance to draw one by turn 4. That's good enough for me.
Does anyone have any ideas on the green splash in the GP Detroit or MOCS list I posted on page 91 with gifts ungiven and no ascensions? They had Deglamer, Naturalize, Nature's Claim and a Breeding Pool in the sideboard, presumably replacements for echoing truth as a way to deal with pesky enchantments like rest in peace and leyline of sanctity. But do you bring in all 3 if you're worried about potential targets? Maybe you only bring in one, and bring in the rest if you see a target.
Obviously the point is that there are 3 redundant cards you can gifts for, so you know that gifts will give you an answer. I was going to say "well if you draw one, your gifts won't work because they can just put the other two in the graveyard", but that's not relevant actually since you already have one in your hand you can use.
But what situations do you bring all 3 in? It feels to me like you're diluting your deck more than I'd like boarding in 3 answers. Echoing truth was nice because it was just 1 card, and you could feel comfortable that you would draw it eventually to bounce their leyline since you can just draw through your deck with an active ascension. But maybe since this deck doesn't always have that luxury you need 3 answers to make sure you draw them?
At the moment I'm leaning towards boarding in one nature's claim if I'm worried about potential targets (say UW Eldrazi which could bring in rest in peace), and bringing in the rest if I actually see a target I need to get rid of. What do you think? Should I just rely on empty the warrens if I'm unsure about targets for enchantment removal? Are there decks against which you can give hard advice as to what you would board in? Just trying to figure out how to play this version of storm.
What do people think about this list? Pascal3000 went 7-2 in the recent MOCS Monthly Event with it. He talked about it a bit here. Similar to the list that made top 8 at a recent GP.
It's difficult for me to evaluate given how used to the stock list I am. The main thing I don't like about it is how dependent you are on Goblin Electromancer. It seems as though if your opp holds up removal for it, it makes it so hard to get enough mana to go off with Gifts Ungiven/Past in Flames. Drawing electromancer isn't a given either. Having 4 Pyromancer Ascension as well as 4 electromancers means you're more likely to see one of them or have it stick. But gifts lets you tutor for something you're missing I guess. Empty the warrens makes sense if you're going off with electromancer and can't necessarily draw your entire deck or build up enough storm. 19 lands is way more than 16, but I suppose that makes sense given the gifts ungiven. The green splash in the sideboard is unusual too.
I'm skeptical, but I can't deny that it's done well at 2 recent major events, and the stock list hasn't. I'll be interested to try it out at least. I just hope my electromancers stick around long enough.
Burn is probably the worst matchup there is for storm, which is unfortunate since it's the most played deck on MTGO. Some fun facts: 18.3% of my losses online have been against burn, and my win % against burn is 22.1% (won 15 games out of 68). Win % against the rest of the field is 59.7%.
I used to be very against the idea of having bolts maindeck, since I thought that G1 the deck should just be as proactive and combo-focused as possible. However, over the last couple of months I've changed my mind. I'm currently using this list, which shaves 1 Grapeshot, 1 Past in Flames, and 1 Desperate Ravings from the main, and replaces them with 3 Lightning Bolts. The 3 sideboard slots that used to be bolts are instead a third Desperate Ravings, and 2 copies of Dragon's Claw. Having bolts main means one Grapeshot is plenty, and shaving a Past in Flames and Desperate Ravings has not had as much of an impact as I thought it would.
I probably side bolts out against most decks (twin, jund, junk, tron, amulet). Maybe 65%-75% of the time? Having bolts against the decks you don't want them for is a slight downside. However, having bolts against the decks you *do* want them for (burn, affinity, zoo) is a big upside. I would say the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by a wide margin, enough to make up for the fact that there are less decks you want bolts against. Also, it frees up sideboard slots. Being able to run 2 Dragon's Claw in the sideboard is really great. In fact, it's one of the main reasons I like having bolts main. Burn is still an atrocious matchup, but it's very popular online and I just hate losing to it, so it's nice to have a little bit of help there.
I'm curious about how other people tend to sideboard in the mirror match. Personally, I approach it as more or less of a race, where you just try to go off faster than your opponent and hope you have better draws. Given that, I don't sideboard much, since adding things from the board means you have to dilute the main deck, which seems like it should reduce speed and efficiency. I like to add 1 Echoing Truth, in case they bring in Leyline of Sanctity, or as insurance against Empty the Warrens, and take out 1 Desperate Ravings, the slowest card draw spell.
People I play against often seem to bring in Lightning Bolts for Goblin Electromancer. Reasons I don't like this are because adding 4 Lightning Bolts means you have to remove 4 of something else, diluting the deck like I mentioned before, in addition to the fact that Goblin Electromancer isn't necessary to win, and there will be games where you never draw it. However, the fastest games have Goblin Electromancer in conjunction with Past in Flames, so it can be really useful if you're just trying to win as fast as possible, which is what I think you have to try and do in the mirror. I always find myself using Grapeshot to kill an opposing Goblin Electromancer if I have the chance.
So I was wondering, how do other people sideboard in the mirror? Do you bring in Lightning Bolts, or do you try and leave the main deck as intact as possible?
I had a go at calculating some opening hand probabilities, and I was quite surprised at how often you will have to mulligan with this deck. One of the main reasons I would mulligan an opening hand is if it lacked any blue sources. Taking what appears to be the standard manabase, 45 of the 60 cards in the deck are not blue sources. And so the probability of drawing 7 not-blue-sources in a row should be (45/60)*(44/59)*(43/58)*(42/57)*(41/56)*(40/55)*(39/54) = 11.75%. So even before taking into account hands with too many lands, hands with too many engines, etc, you will mulligan your opening hand about 12% of the time. Furthermore, in a 2 game match you will mulligan at least one opening hand at least 22% of the time, and in a 3 game match you will mulligan at least one opening hand at least 30% of the time!
So yeah, I just thought that was surprising. One thing I thought I'd ask is, what criteria do you have to keep a hand? Generally I will keep hands with only one land (not a basic Mountain obviously) if I have at least one blue cantrip on the draw, and on the play I would keep if I had at least one Serum Visions or Sleight of Hand, Gitaxian Probe and Thought Scour don't seem quite as reliable at finding land.
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
3 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures (7)
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
3 Goblin Electromancer
Spells (36)
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Past in Flames
2 Grapeshot
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Opt
2 Swan Song
1 Echoing Truth
2 Pieces of the Puzzle
2 Empty the Warrens
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Shattering Spree
2 Blood Moon
Frankly I just want to play Pyromancer Ascension because I liked that version of the deck better than the current one, and I've had a lot more experience playing with Ascension than without. I tried this sort of thing with the Gifts package as well as the Ascensions a while ago, but with Faithless Looting instead of Opt. While it would seem like it's diluting your game plan too much, in my opinion it worked pretty well. Anyway I'm going to try it.
EDIT: Don't try this, it's bad lol
2 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Steam Vents
4 Spirebluff Canals
1 Shivan Reef
Spells (44)
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Faithless Looting
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Past in Flames
2 Grapeshot
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose
Sideboard (15)
2 Dispel
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Echoing Truth
2 Blood Moon
3 Shatterstorm
3 Empty the Warrens
What happened to Pyromancer Ascension? Finkel has been playing this deck on stream and gets asked why he is still playing Pyromancer Ascension a lot, to which he basically says "Why wouldn't I be? It's still a great card." Is there any merit to builds like this with Pyromancer Ascension?
Also, you get to draw T1 from probe, T2 from draw step and T3 from draw step. That's 3 draws to find a cantrip to play T3 if you draw a land. If you don't draw a land, well that's 4 draws to find one to play T4. Let's say you've boarded +3 empty +1 defense grid, -1 grapeshot -1 past in flames -2 thought scour. You have 20 card draw spells left in the deck (counting manamorphose). You have a 77% chance to draw one by T3 and an 86% chance to draw one by turn 4. That's good enough for me.
Obviously the point is that there are 3 redundant cards you can gifts for, so you know that gifts will give you an answer. I was going to say "well if you draw one, your gifts won't work because they can just put the other two in the graveyard", but that's not relevant actually since you already have one in your hand you can use.
But what situations do you bring all 3 in? It feels to me like you're diluting your deck more than I'd like boarding in 3 answers. Echoing truth was nice because it was just 1 card, and you could feel comfortable that you would draw it eventually to bounce their leyline since you can just draw through your deck with an active ascension. But maybe since this deck doesn't always have that luxury you need 3 answers to make sure you draw them?
At the moment I'm leaning towards boarding in one nature's claim if I'm worried about potential targets (say UW Eldrazi which could bring in rest in peace), and bringing in the rest if I actually see a target I need to get rid of. What do you think? Should I just rely on empty the warrens if I'm unsure about targets for enchantment removal? Are there decks against which you can give hard advice as to what you would board in? Just trying to figure out how to play this version of storm.
4 Goblin Electromancer
1 Simian Spirit Guide
Sorceries (15)
2 Empty the Warrens
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Grapeshot
3 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
Instants (21)
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Increasing Vengeance
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Thought Scour
1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Shivan Reef
3 Steam Vents
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
1 Breeding Pool
1 Deglamer
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Naturalize
1 Nature's Claim
2 Pyroclasm
What do people think about this list? Pascal3000 went 7-2 in the recent MOCS Monthly Event with it. He talked about it a bit here. Similar to the list that made top 8 at a recent GP.
It's difficult for me to evaluate given how used to the stock list I am. The main thing I don't like about it is how dependent you are on Goblin Electromancer. It seems as though if your opp holds up removal for it, it makes it so hard to get enough mana to go off with Gifts Ungiven/Past in Flames. Drawing electromancer isn't a given either. Having 4 Pyromancer Ascension as well as 4 electromancers means you're more likely to see one of them or have it stick. But gifts lets you tutor for something you're missing I guess. Empty the warrens makes sense if you're going off with electromancer and can't necessarily draw your entire deck or build up enough storm. 19 lands is way more than 16, but I suppose that makes sense given the gifts ungiven. The green splash in the sideboard is unusual too.
I'm skeptical, but I can't deny that it's done well at 2 recent major events, and the stock list hasn't. I'll be interested to try it out at least. I just hope my electromancers stick around long enough.
I used to be very against the idea of having bolts maindeck, since I thought that G1 the deck should just be as proactive and combo-focused as possible. However, over the last couple of months I've changed my mind. I'm currently using this list, which shaves 1 Grapeshot, 1 Past in Flames, and 1 Desperate Ravings from the main, and replaces them with 3 Lightning Bolts. The 3 sideboard slots that used to be bolts are instead a third Desperate Ravings, and 2 copies of Dragon's Claw. Having bolts main means one Grapeshot is plenty, and shaving a Past in Flames and Desperate Ravings has not had as much of an impact as I thought it would.
I probably side bolts out against most decks (twin, jund, junk, tron, amulet). Maybe 65%-75% of the time? Having bolts against the decks you don't want them for is a slight downside. However, having bolts against the decks you *do* want them for (burn, affinity, zoo) is a big upside. I would say the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by a wide margin, enough to make up for the fact that there are less decks you want bolts against. Also, it frees up sideboard slots. Being able to run 2 Dragon's Claw in the sideboard is really great. In fact, it's one of the main reasons I like having bolts main. Burn is still an atrocious matchup, but it's very popular online and I just hate losing to it, so it's nice to have a little bit of help there.
People I play against often seem to bring in Lightning Bolts for Goblin Electromancer. Reasons I don't like this are because adding 4 Lightning Bolts means you have to remove 4 of something else, diluting the deck like I mentioned before, in addition to the fact that Goblin Electromancer isn't necessary to win, and there will be games where you never draw it. However, the fastest games have Goblin Electromancer in conjunction with Past in Flames, so it can be really useful if you're just trying to win as fast as possible, which is what I think you have to try and do in the mirror. I always find myself using Grapeshot to kill an opposing Goblin Electromancer if I have the chance.
So I was wondering, how do other people sideboard in the mirror? Do you bring in Lightning Bolts, or do you try and leave the main deck as intact as possible?
So yeah, I just thought that was surprising. One thing I thought I'd ask is, what criteria do you have to keep a hand? Generally I will keep hands with only one land (not a basic Mountain obviously) if I have at least one blue cantrip on the draw, and on the play I would keep if I had at least one Serum Visions or Sleight of Hand, Gitaxian Probe and Thought Scour don't seem quite as reliable at finding land.