I think the card allows casual players to do a basilisk theme (not critter type basilisk, but the basilisk effect). If printed, I'm sure it will see some competitive play too =)
River Boa only comes online on turn 3 (ignoring mana acc), Tangle Asp is here and now on turn 2.
Nothing against the Boa, nice art, nice stats and nice flavour. One of the reasons Visions was good =D .. But I suspect the decks built with them wil be a little different, so I guess it a little like comparing apples to oranges. Still I am partial to the basilisk effect =P
Or maybe *will* be powerfull in the next block or two... anti-regen in the core smacks of 10 painlands in the core... foreshadowing of a future nuicance(sp) the FFL uncovered.
heh heh throw a fatty with regen with trample... now thats a monster =D
.... hmm have a nagging feeling they have already done that..... the reason it was'nt amazing was it can be removed with terror and the like or pacified etc... thats where untargetibility comes in =D hehe .... hmm but then if it were untargetable... incinerate can do nothin' either.... hmmm
That's the thing though, 10th edition and our current meta will only co-exist for a short while, plus we have an extra set between now and then, so using current meta issues as reasonings for 10th edition cards isn't really acurate.
I dunno they (wotc) have worked very hard to allow decks with higher mana needs to survive... agreed that the current meta is not the best gauge for 10th... but armageddon and the like are probably not going to be back ... for a long time at least
Quote from Horseshoe_Hermit »
Wasn't Incinerate recently grouped along with Lightning Bolt as just beyond where removal should be?
This is quite a surprise. They're really pushing the envelope. Don't know how they're going to manage the power creep after this step.
They'll have to have scads and scads of 4 toughness creatures, or all 2 drops will have to be 3/3s and no weaker.
And once again, they're pushing to make regeneration unplayable despite theirdeclaration they wanted regeneration to start making an appearance.... god such contradictory people....
I think it's a step too far, but it's not insane. They're only hurting themselves.
Hmmm... not sure if tey are pushing that far =)
but yeah.. if printing incinerates means they need more 4/4 and above that does look like power creep.... but I remember somewhere in "Ask Wizards" they addressed that... something to the effect that phat critters are oki with them... *shrug*
On the regen part... yah its strange.... regen has been on their revive list for a while... Regen is getting too powerful??? LOL
Quote from Dark_Knight_307 »
I've never seen any of those guys go past $5, I cannot beleive some people would pay that much for somthing as abundant as an uncommon!
I have seen them go past... in fact I sold mine and then rebought them at $2 =P
And it is possible... a box of packs for a "small" set e.g. judgment .. I dunno sometimes you get only 1 uncommon of a particular kind.. so if all you are gunning for is that playset, it may make more sense to just buy them.
Granted that they are uncommon... but so was mana drain =P
... this means a lot... think about it, incinerate is a great card, people haven't been all OH REPRINT INCINERATE, but it is a card worth having... so then we got Incinerate, a high powered volcanic hammer... Maybe this means Wizards is upping the power of core sets altogether?
it could be... I think the core sets have been low for a while.. and it does seem like Wizards style to kill the power and then slowly raise it up... I like 8th and 9th so far, much more than 6th and 7th... I mean this as a "on the whole" basis...
hehe off topic, but i do wish armageddon would be back.... but that would kill too many decks at the moment =P so its really just a pipe dream
I suspect it will be uncommon, just cos its an old card with a history =)
or they may not, seeing that making it uncommon means they have to put another cheap burn in the common slot... that MAY just give too much burn in the environment.
On its own though incinerate is not going to break anything, decks sporting it just became flexible thats all. Essentially it is the instant vs sorcery argument. Perhaps they are letting incinerate in becos of high toughness critters? I know a certain ape that has been the bane of anyone not able to deal 3 plus critter pump has been getting better, so maybe it is only fair that burn gets a little more reach.
I have found Pravh to be good, at worse it does nothing and is just a land, but when you are caught with no spells (or no counterspells), reusuable damage prevention is good.
Its not great and I would'nt recommend 2... but definitely still in contention
After playing 2 rounds against Simic control, I am incline to agree about pride vs windreaver... (but then its just 2 games) still, the windreaver almost immediately puts the opponent on the clock....
I am thinking hard for a reason to keep pride in =P
Oh loxodon warhammer is just so good.... life gain and more importantly... TRAMPLE!
I'm not sure if I am running enough white for genju, but its worth a look =)
socery speed is too slow IMO, also all cards into the lib is generally not good
More flyers turns it into a flying weenie deck, in which case it really should be a Azorius aggro which this deck is'nt, unless you mean a flying weenie deck with control elements, I have have tried that and it is not too good.
[edit]
whoops just realised you are not asking me to add flyers
[/edit]
Pravh is usable, but really for late games which this deck drags into.
Erm pride's function in here is like Vitu-Ghazi, just to generate tokens... and really this is NOT a weenie deck
its nice when you get it out.. but..4 and 5cc repectively is still a little high, so I scrapped that eventually (it felt too much like a bad LD deck, it either works or just caves)
So this is the deck list =)
As always, i am paranoid about surviving aggro, so I have tested it against the standard heezy preboard
The deck can play in to quite a few positions, kill cards can be the windreaver, Hokori lock, or beatdown via pride
And there is a whole swathe of counterspells. 15 in total.
Yeah yeah I heard not everyone likes ghostly prison, they work for me
How the deck works:
1. Counter:
Work out how what counterspells you have in your opening have. You want to counter early if possible. No counters is fine too, but you have to then think about the critters coming on against you early, so your playstyle will also have to change.
2. Try not to tap out:
Errmm I guess this come under old school u/w control =P You normally do not want to tap out. If you can make a play (say playing ghostly prison) see if you can afford to play later. Most times you want to stall for as long as is possible. If the board position allows, build your mana base rather then just play as much as you can. As far as possible, make plays on your turn with counter protection.
3. Your life is a resource:
You can afford to go all the way down to very low life (e.g. 2 life ;p), if you can stabilise the board, and if they just blew chars and flames at you, you are still cool. Though you should still try to get your life up asap. Play carefully, you may have to cast the Faith Fetters on something really irrelavent just to get your life up (say a land or something), though judge for yourself, do you have reason to think your opponent is not holding back, if not feel free to fetter the land =)
4. This deck can play forever
You have stream of consciousness, so you can technically go on and on and on. But always sqeeze as much out of your resources as you can.
5. The cards have different values at different points in the game.
Mana Leak is graavy early game, sucky mid to late game. However if you get hokori up, mana leak becomes relevant again. Streams accordingly.
6. The deck is trying not to lose:
heh, I think this line of thought have been talked to death recently, but anyways as long as you do not lose you are still winning. The deck is real slow at killing. Which is partly the reason for the lifegain (the longer you drag the game, the likelier you are to be taken out by a top-decked burn). Th Azorius Heralds are both lifegain as well as "kill faster" cards.
I play 22 lands. I think the remand helps though. I noticed other decks run compulsion or telling time. This works for me though.
Paladin En-vec is just amazing against anything red or black =P Oh and the first strike is just grand =)
Other notes or things I have tried:
1. When you have hokori online, the bounce lands really shine, as you untap 1 land but get 2 mana =)
2. Prahv is usable, not great but usable, would be fantastic if the activation cost was lower, but it would be too good I guess =P
3. Windreaver - superman/superboy is quite nice Even if he can only bounce rather than become untargetable
4. Overrule is too expensive early game, unfortunately that is when I need something more powerful, like wrath or just a manaleak
5. It used to have condemn, but rather than condemn I have always wished it was something else so I took it out. I rather lose some life, and lock it with prison or just wrath it away.
Overall it is about 50/50 against Heezy... the games are fun, often close. In most U/w there was always some way of locking up the game. That is sort of missing in current u/w. (whether armageddon or winter orb). I though of using the kami of false hope and Proclamation of rebirth, but then i realised to get the stuff back efficiently i need B or G, more of an orzhov or selesnyan trick I guess =) The Hokori is meant to fill that spot, but rather than becoming the focus (like the orb deck of the past), it more of an alternate path thingie.
Comments or thoughts as always are welcome.
I'll try to do more testing... but once a deck half works I have a tendency to move to something else... golgari looks interesting at the moment =)
Very sad, this has been my main go to site for anything new in mtg. I may not have agreed with everything or everyone, but it is what it is. Thanks for the years of information, excitement and wonder Sally. May you ever be found in the way way back machine or some such toodles.
But FC5 is buggy of late (mostly not bugs, just they changed the defaults... like why oh why do you make the pkg mgr look online by default....)
But the ubuntu and its variants (apologies for the generalisation here) are some cool too =) I like Xubuntu's desktop ...
Mainly because of the first strike.
Oh I voted for hurricane too =P Green dd to the dome is just too cool.
I wants it!
lol
I think the card allows casual players to do a basilisk theme (not critter type basilisk, but the basilisk effect). If printed, I'm sure it will see some competitive play too =)
River Boa only comes online on turn 3 (ignoring mana acc), Tangle Asp is here and now on turn 2.
Nothing against the Boa, nice art, nice stats and nice flavour. One of the reasons Visions was good =D .. But I suspect the decks built with them wil be a little different, so I guess it a little like comparing apples to oranges. Still I am partial to the basilisk effect =P
heh heh throw a fatty with regen with trample... now thats a monster =D
.... hmm have a nagging feeling they have already done that..... the reason it was'nt amazing was it can be removed with terror and the like or pacified etc... thats where untargetibility comes in =D hehe .... hmm but then if it were untargetable... incinerate can do nothin' either.... hmmm
plus I like playing green beaters and a finisher is sorely missing
I dunno they (wotc) have worked very hard to allow decks with higher mana needs to survive... agreed that the current meta is not the best gauge for 10th... but armageddon and the like are probably not going to be back ... for a long time at least
Hmmm... not sure if tey are pushing that far =)
but yeah.. if printing incinerates means they need more 4/4 and above that does look like power creep.... but I remember somewhere in "Ask Wizards" they addressed that... something to the effect that phat critters are oki with them... *shrug*
On the regen part... yah its strange.... regen has been on their revive list for a while... Regen is getting too powerful??? LOL
I have seen them go past... in fact I sold mine and then rebought them at $2 =P
And it is possible... a box of packs for a "small" set e.g. judgment .. I dunno sometimes you get only 1 uncommon of a particular kind.. so if all you are gunning for is that playset, it may make more sense to just buy them.
Granted that they are uncommon... but so was mana drain =P
it could be... I think the core sets have been low for a while.. and it does seem like Wizards style to kill the power and then slowly raise it up... I like 8th and 9th so far, much more than 6th and 7th... I mean this as a "on the whole" basis...
hehe off topic, but i do wish armageddon would be back.... but that would kill too many decks at the moment =P so its really just a pipe dream
but I am doing B/R and trying to work with disruption..... the mana curve is just too high =(
I use a bit of green to have Loaming Shaman
But i am thinking of going green now... the mana acc is badly needed and bounce lands and signets are just too slow.
or they may not, seeing that making it uncommon means they have to put another cheap burn in the common slot... that MAY just give too much burn in the environment.
On its own though incinerate is not going to break anything, decks sporting it just became flexible thats all. Essentially it is the instant vs sorcery argument. Perhaps they are letting incinerate in becos of high toughness critters? I know a certain ape that has been the bane of anyone not able to deal 3
Whoo hoo a reason to keep the pride! Uncounterability did not quite cross my mind, but yes it would be good =)
Azoriushas ben good so far =)
Its not great and I would'nt recommend 2... but definitely still in contention
After playing 2 rounds against Simic control, I am incline to agree about pride vs windreaver... (but then its just 2 games) still, the windreaver almost immediately puts the opponent on the clock....
I am thinking hard for a reason to keep pride in =P
Oh loxodon warhammer is just so good.... life gain and more importantly... TRAMPLE!
I'm not sure if I am running enough white for genju, but its worth a look =)
How does Rewind help with gigadrowse?
More flyers turns it into a flying weenie deck, in which case it really should be a Azorius aggro which this deck is'nt, unless you mean a flying weenie deck with control elements, I have have tried that and it is not too good.
[edit]
whoops just realised you are not asking me to add flyers
[/edit]
Pravh is usable, but really for late games which this deck drags into.
Erm pride's function in here is like Vitu-Ghazi, just to generate tokens... and really this is NOT a weenie deck
My take on u/w has been the flying weenie version, but i decided to try out control.
I have tried Grand Arbiter Augustin IV + SpellTithe Enforcer
its nice when you get it out.. but..4 and 5cc repectively is still a little high, so I scrapped that eventually (it felt too much like a bad LD deck, it either works or just caves)
So this is the deck list =)
As always, i am paranoid about surviving aggro, so I have tested it against the standard heezy preboard
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Azorius Chancery
6 Island
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Plains
1 Prahv, Spires of Order
// Creatures
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Pride of the Clouds
1 Windreaver
2 Azorius Herald
1 Paladin en-Vec
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
4 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak
4 Faith's Fetters
3 Hinder
4 Remand
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Wrath of God
2 Stream of Consciousness
1 Ivory Crane Netsuke
1 Evacuation
no side board as yet =P
The deck can play in to quite a few positions, kill cards can be the windreaver, Hokori lock, or beatdown via pride
And there is a whole swathe of counterspells. 15 in total.
Yeah yeah I heard not everyone likes ghostly prison, they work for me
How the deck works:
1. Counter:
Work out how what counterspells you have in your opening have. You want to counter early if possible. No counters is fine too, but you have to then think about the critters coming on against you early, so your playstyle will also have to change.
2. Try not to tap out:
Errmm I guess this come under old school u/w control =P You normally do not want to tap out. If you can make a play (say playing ghostly prison) see if you can afford to play later. Most times you want to stall for as long as is possible. If the board position allows, build your mana base rather then just play as much as you can. As far as possible, make plays on your turn with counter protection.
3. Your life is a resource:
You can afford to go all the way down to very low life (e.g. 2 life ;p), if you can stabilise the board, and if they just blew chars and flames at you, you are still cool. Though you should still try to get your life up asap. Play carefully, you may have to cast the Faith Fetters on something really irrelavent just to get your life up (say a land or something), though judge for yourself, do you have reason to think your opponent is not holding back, if not feel free to fetter the land =)
4. This deck can play forever
You have stream of consciousness, so you can technically go on and on and on. But always sqeeze as much out of your resources as you can.
5. The cards have different values at different points in the game.
Mana Leak is graavy early game, sucky mid to late game. However if you get hokori up, mana leak becomes relevant again. Streams accordingly.
6. The deck is trying not to lose:
heh, I think this line of thought have been talked to death recently, but anyways as long as you do not lose you are still winning. The deck is real slow at killing. Which is partly the reason for the lifegain (the longer you drag the game, the likelier you are to be taken out by a top-decked burn). Th Azorius Heralds are both lifegain as well as "kill faster" cards.
I play 22 lands. I think the remand helps though. I noticed other decks run compulsion or telling time. This works for me though.
Paladin En-vec is just amazing against anything red or black =P Oh and the first strike is just grand =)
Other notes or things I have tried:
1. When you have hokori online, the bounce lands really shine, as you untap 1 land but get 2 mana =)
2. Prahv is usable, not great but usable, would be fantastic if the activation cost was lower, but it would be too good I guess =P
3. Windreaver - superman/superboy is quite nice
4. Overrule is too expensive early game, unfortunately that is when I need something more powerful, like wrath or just a manaleak
5. It used to have condemn, but rather than condemn I have always wished it was something else so I took it out. I rather lose some life, and lock it with prison or just wrath it away.
Overall it is about 50/50 against Heezy... the games are fun, often close. In most U/w there was always some way of locking up the game. That is sort of missing in current u/w. (whether armageddon or winter orb). I though of using the kami of false hope and Proclamation of rebirth, but then i realised to get the stuff back efficiently i need B or G, more of an orzhov or selesnyan trick I guess =) The Hokori is meant to fill that spot, but rather than becoming the focus (like the orb deck of the past), it more of an alternate path thingie.
Comments or thoughts as always are welcome.
I'll try to do more testing... but once a deck half works I have a tendency to move to something else... golgari looks interesting at the moment =)