I've been trying to get a really fun Karametra semi-casual multiplayer build sorted out for a long time, but my current iteration actually went the Sisay route and is quite similar to the ideas I'm seeing in this thread. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for "fun" Sisay in multiplayer. I realize this is the 1v1 thread and you're aiming for pretty serious builds, but you all seem quite active and passionate about Sisay, so I hope you don't mind!
I basically want to be able to cheat or tutor things out, boardwipe a lot, and have graveyard interaction. The way that it's set up currently, I have a lot more things in that first category than I have in the second or third. I would like to run like 7 or 8 wipes + a couple more recursion cards, but it seems like I'd have to take out clutch creatures/game-winning enchantments. Thoughts?
I don't generally play Time Warp. I really like Temporal Mastery because it's not (as) prone to abuse. I'm also excited about the new FRF time walk; it looks like it's super hard to abuse, and fairly reasonable.
What do you think about Lighthouse Chronologist?
I think it's probably going to die to removal... #badarguments
Lighthouse Chronologist can be a good card, but, my tables don't really want that. My play group is very casual. We have good players, but no one wants to take infinite turns or combo out, because then it's just shuffling until more of the same. We're mostly just interested in slinging cards around and having fun, or building janky crap like Sea Monster decks, or goofy tribal, or 'themed' decks (like, Mimeoplasm +1/+1 counter-themed stuff, like Mycoloth or Cold-Eyed Selkie).
It's a pretty good scene, we're all pretty happy.
Ha, my playgroup is the same! We actually play fairly high-powered cards, but we don't like to combo out. We also tend to stick to themes instead of just running complete goodstuffs. I think that tends to automatically sort of limit the power-level ceiling. Gotta love it.
I’ve searched around the net and found a handful of slightly different ways to play Diaochan. I didn’t like most of what I read, so in case anyone else is running into the same problem, maybe you’ll stumble across this overview and will appreciate the deck workflow I have personally hammered out.
Introduction
I really like the idea of running mono-red in EDH. Before Diaochan, I ran a pretty powerful Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer deck that usually closed out the same way every time: turn their things into artifacts and blow up the world while I float into a big creature or stay alive with Darksteel Forge. Slobad probably has ways to “spice things up” if you’re into combos, but I don’t personally have a taste for winning by going infinite. So, I began to look around for another commander.
Diaochan can be brutal. But there are a couple things you need to keep in mind.
Obviously, the timeframe in which you can use her ability is limited to the first part of your turn.
Because your opponent’s selection of a creature is part of your own creature’s ability, hexproof won’t protect her.
Your opponent can choose the same creature you chose. That is, if you’re in a 3-player match and each player has one creature on the field (yours being a Greaves’d Diaochan), you can choose to blow up Dan’s creature; but instead of choosing to blow up Bob’s creature, Dan can just select his own again! Meaning you completely clearing the board with Diaochan isn’t a guarantee.
Diaochan herself doesn’t really close out games.
Seems like a lot of negatives, right? It's really not all that bad in practice. I contend that she’s still right for you if:
You’ve always wanted Avatar of Woe as your general.
You like to generate some level of politics in your matches.
You like having somewhat obscure generals.
You like being one of the biggest threats (possibly the biggest threat) at the table.
You like big spells.
You might not like her, though, if:
The negative form of most of the above are true.
You get super frustrated when people blow up your mana doublers (this will happen regularly).
You like playing especially passively.
Alright then. So here is my deck list which is constructed to "dance around" Diaochan.
Now, there are many different ways games with this deck can roll out depending on what you draw and what your opponents are playing. In general, though, you can aim yourself at one (or both?) of these broad strategies:
Establish Diaochan as a primary threat for the table and successfully plant creatures that "dance" around her by being transient (the neatest way IMO), indestructible, or shrouded/prot-red'd.
Play defensively, gain a little bit of life, and burn everything.
A Few Explanations
Draw Engine
I've included a few draw cards in this deck list, the one requiring the most work being Skullclamp. You can use it fairly easily in conjunction with Kher Keep, Orochi Hatchery, and Goblin Assault.
Transient Creatures
Use cards like Genju of the Spires, Chimeric Staff, Chimeric Mass, and Koth of the Hammer to beat your opponents down with creatures that you only allow to exist after you've resolved Diaochan's ability.
I'm going to stop writing for now, but if you have any comments on my list, feel free to share your thoughts below!
I don't generally play Time Warp. I really like Temporal Mastery because it's not (as) prone to abuse. I'm also excited about the new FRF time walk; it looks like it's super hard to abuse, and fairly reasonable.
I've been trying to get a really fun Karametra semi-casual multiplayer build sorted out for a long time, but my current iteration actually went the Sisay route and is quite similar to the ideas I'm seeing in this thread. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for "fun" Sisay in multiplayer. I realize this is the 1v1 thread and you're aiming for pretty serious builds, but you all seem quite active and passionate about Sisay, so I hope you don't mind!
Here is what I'm currently brewing:
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x High Market
1x Kor Haven
1x Krosan Verge
1x Lotus Vale
1x Nantuko Monastery
1x Quicksand
1x Riftstone Portal
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Slippery Karst
5x Snow-Covered Forest
5x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Temple of the False God
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Yavimaya Hollow
Instant (7)
1x Chord of Calling
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Faith's Reward
1x Ghostway
1x Harrow
1x Reincarnation
1x Academy Rector
1x Archon of Justice
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Eternal Witness
1x Golgari Grave-Troll
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1x Karmic Guide
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Mangara of Corondor
1x Novablast Wurm
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Saffi Eriksdotter
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sun Titan
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1x Yavimaya Elder
Artifact (8)
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Captain Sisay
Enchantment (13)
1x Aura of Silence
1x Aura Shards
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Greater Good
1x Land Tax
1x Mana Reflection
1x Marshal's Anthem
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Pattern of Rebirth
1x Privileged Position
1x Sterling Grove
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Sorcery (12)
1x Catastrophe
1x Council's Judgment
1x Cultivate
1x Hymn of Rebirth
1x Idyllic Tutor
1x Into the North
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Life from the Loam
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x Regrowth
1x Rout
1x Tooth and Nail
I basically want to be able to cheat or tutor things out, boardwipe a lot, and have graveyard interaction. The way that it's set up currently, I have a lot more things in that first category than I have in the second or third. I would like to run like 7 or 8 wipes + a couple more recursion cards, but it seems like I'd have to take out clutch creatures/game-winning enchantments. Thoughts?
Ha, my playgroup is the same! We actually play fairly high-powered cards, but we don't like to combo out. We also tend to stick to themes instead of just running complete goodstuffs. I think that tends to automatically sort of limit the power-level ceiling. Gotta love it.
I really like the idea of running mono-red in EDH. Before Diaochan, I ran a pretty powerful Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer deck that usually closed out the same way every time: turn their things into artifacts and blow up the world while I float into a big creature or stay alive with Darksteel Forge. Slobad probably has ways to “spice things up” if you’re into combos, but I don’t personally have a taste for winning by going infinite. So, I began to look around for another commander.
Diaochan can be brutal. But there are a couple things you need to keep in mind.
Seems like a lot of negatives, right? It's really not all that bad in practice. I contend that she’s still right for you if:
You might not like her, though, if:
Alright then. So here is my deck list which is constructed to "dance around" Diaochan.
1 Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Good for Her!
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Hammer of Purphoros
The Dance Crew
1 Chimeric Mass
1 Chimeric Staff
1 Genju of the Spires
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Dragon Roost
1 Goblin Assault
1 Orochi Hatchery
1 Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
1 Batterskull
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Etched Champion
1 Myojin of Infinite Rage
1 Darksteel Juggernaut
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Blightsteel Colossus
Ramp
1 Caged Sun
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Grim Monolith
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Sol Ring
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Metalworker
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Terrain Generator
1 Druidic Satchel
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Skullclamp
1 Mind's Eye
1 Temple Bell
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Myr Retriever
1 Trash for Treasure
Control
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Duplicant
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Blood Moon
1 Price of Glory
1 Smoke
1 Shattering Spree
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Chaos Warp
1 Word of Seizing
1 Maze of Ith
Pain
1 Dictate of the Twin Gods
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Manabarbs
1 Pyrohemia
1 Repercussion
1 Comet Storm
1 Fault Line
1 Magmaquake
1 Price of Progress
1 Banefire
1 Earthquake
1 Molten Disaster
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Insurrection
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Kher Keep
1 Temple of the False God
28 Snow-covered Mountain
Now, there are many different ways games with this deck can roll out depending on what you draw and what your opponents are playing. In general, though, you can aim yourself at one (or both?) of these broad strategies:
Draw Engine
I've included a few draw cards in this deck list, the one requiring the most work being Skullclamp. You can use it fairly easily in conjunction with Kher Keep, Orochi Hatchery, and Goblin Assault.
Transient Creatures
Use cards like Genju of the Spires, Chimeric Staff, Chimeric Mass, and Koth of the Hammer to beat your opponents down with creatures that you only allow to exist after you've resolved Diaochan's ability.
I'm going to stop writing for now, but if you have any comments on my list, feel free to share your thoughts below!
What do you think about Lighthouse Chronologist?
Blech, I don't think the card is any good.