MTG Salvation

I have been a long time Bant Company player (well as long as Collected Company has been a card at least), and I am planning to give this combo thing another shot. I tried it when it was first revealed, but found that in my Jund heavy meta, it ended up just being a worse version of my standard Bant Company deck because I was never really able to combo without putting more effort into it than I would have needed to win with my standard beatdown plan anyways.

Now that the meta in my area has started shifting, I think that this combo is positioned to perform well for me.

Is there a consensus on what version of the deck is best? Or are people still playing various versions?

This is the list I plan to start with and slowly tune until I find it acceptable. Let me know what you guys think. Not sure if CoCo is correct with the number of creatures I run, but I mainly want it for a way to dig for Knight, even if I don't hit a second creature, the selection still feels worth it to me for now. I might move to a midrange version with a couple chords and no CoCo though. Was unsure of goyf here as well, I found that Voice of Resurgence was often a better defualt 2-drop in my Company deck due to the limited card types I played, but it might be more relevant here, so I might try to fit them in as well.

Regarding Blood Moons and Cryptic,

I have been on and off of this deck the last little while, but have ended up on a bit more of a burn heavy list than a lot of you guys here, so I'm not sure if my advice is as applicable to all of you, but I have actually been running 2 Blood Moons in the side with a couple extra basics in the mainboard. I currently run no cryptics in my deck, but I would think that you should take them out when you bring in the moons. Not only for the reason that they will be harder to cast, but against the decks you want Blood Moon against (assuming Tron and Bloom), cryptic is already a bit slow, and if you have a blood moon out, you have essentially locked them out of most of their big plays anyways.

I don't have my full list typed up anywhere, but I can post it here later tonight.

I am running 2 island, 2 plains, and 1 mountain for basics. and I have double blue and double white only on a couple spells each (Clique and Elspeth, K-E), though usually Elspeth gets cut in the blood moon matchups as well.

This thread has been a little slow lately, so I thought I would share my current thoughts on this deck and hopefully start up some more discussion or help out any lurkers that pop through with an up to date list.

I've been playing a lot of Bant Company the last month or so, and my list has evolved into a place that I think is pretty good. I recently tested a few games with the Retreat to Coralhelm / KotR combo (running 4 copies of each) and I think that this deck is just not the shell for it. I think sticking to the value beatdown plan is where we want to be with this deck, as we don't really need the combo to win, and I think that Retreat is not worth taking up our precious non-creature slots.

Here is the list that I have been playing. There are a couple things I am still working out, but overall it has performed well for me. A big thing that a lot of people have questioned me about is running so many 3-drops and only 4 dorks. The reason I don't really like birds here, is that in a lot of matchups, I want to be able to grind out the long game. Against BG/x and Grixis especially, I wanted to eliminate my bad late-game topdecks. Hierarch is great because even later on in the game, it does more than a standard mana dork. I want to be windmill slamming beefy three-drops or CoCo's at a certain point in the game, and reducing the consistency of my explosive T-2 Geist/Smiter, T-3 CoCo starts, has been worth it because of how much better the deck feels in the late game. This brings me to Skaab Ruinator, another card that has been criticized in the deck. I think Ruinator is amazing here, and even when you draw one, at some point in the game you will be able to cast it, and it will demand an answer or win you the game. It's an amazing hit of CoCo and it really catches a lot of people off guard, when you slam this guy and a Geist in at the end of their turn, then swing for 9 flying damage. I think the rest of my creature choices are pretty standard and don't really need much said about them, they are all just efficient threats or have some utility.

For non-creature spells, I think that 4 CoCo, 4 Path, and 3 Dromoka's Command are the best options. CoCo and Path are pretty obvious, and Dromoka's Command has been very versatile and can be a huge blowout.

A couple of things that I am still thinking about in the mainboard of this deck are the Utility Lands (including manlands) and the Rhox War Monks. I was torn on whether I should be mainbaording the War Monk or the Kitchen Finks. I like having both in my 75, as they both serve a similar purpose, but both have different strengths and weaknesses. I ultimately decided on the War Monk due to it's synergy with the Dromoka's Commands in the Mainboard. Being able to put a counter on it, fight, and attack to net me 8 life, kill a guy and do 4 damage is real good.

For the utility lands, I am fine with running just 1 of each because of KotR. I think overall in this deck, I don't want more than 2 colourless lands, which is why I am running just 1 township and 1 GQ mainboard, and 1 GQ, 1 Moorland Haunt sideboard. Gavony is pretty obvious here, but I don't see a lot of people running Haunt in the 75. I think it is really strong in the grindy matchups. Against UWR, Grixis and Jund/k being able to get additional value from my dead guys has been really good. The GQ's are obviously strong vs Tron, Amulet and Manlands so having access to 2 post board is nice against some decks. I also think a third KotR would be a potentially strong add here to help me find these lands when they are needed, not sure what the cut for her is though.

For my manlands I am currently on a 1/1/1 split of Colonnade, Stirring Wildwood and Treetop Village. I am still trying to decide which one I like best in the deck, but having one of each has been nice. I think treetop village is the weakest here, since it dies to the most stuff, and this deck isn't like Jund where I can just keep their board clear and kill their hand to have an opening for it. I think I would like to narrow it down to 2 of either Colonnade or Wildwood and cut the third manland for something that comes in untapped, but I'll be testing the 1/1/1 for a bit longer.

In the sideboard, I have some disruptive/hateful cards that can really punish certain decks. Kataki is hard to affinity to beat if they don't have the galv blast for it. Thalia does a lot in the control/twin matchups. Finks give additional lifegain and can be hard to opponents to get rid of. Spellskite does a lot in the Infect/Bogle/Twin matchup. Clique is nice to have against any combo decks, or even just against a deck where a flying threat is strong. Engineered Explosives is the Catch all removal that can take care of a variety of things that we otherwise have trouble with (Bogles, Liliana, tokens, flip Jace, affinity).

I already discussed the lands, and in addition to all those I run 3 1-of counterspells. Flashfreeze is a bit of a metacall, but it stops a lot of spells that are good in the current metagame. I used to run 2 but recently cut 1 for a negate. Negate was added as an additional way to prevent wraths/big spells that would ruin my boardstate. Disdainful Stroke is a hedge against Tron for the most part (which is big in my meta), but it can also be relevant against a lot of decks that top out with powerful 4-5 drops.

Quote from hotwaterproxy »

For @Frozen Phoenix and @thedougler1 did you guys find having only 4 twin targets was too few or do you think 4 is the right amount to have considering 3 splinter twins?

I liked 4/3. I usually win most of my games with beatdown anyways. I find that the extra couple slots I get from not running something like 5/4 split make a bigger difference overall than the extra combo pieces. As well, in my opinion, 0 Twins in hand is far better than 2 Twins in hand.

How did you like the Dismember mainboard? I was considering cutting my mainboard roast for a dismember instead, but was worried about the 4 life being dangerous against the decks that I would generally be wanting to use this card. Especially paired with the probes, did you find the life costs okay?

I was also really loving Huntmaster in the deck. I ended up runing 2 mainboard yesterday and they were consistently awesome.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I ended up playing a slightly altered version in 2 events today at my LGS and ended up 6-1 overall (3-0 and 3-1) only losing to Abzan CoCo. I'll go over my results below. I will include what I sideboarded in and out, I'm looking for help/thoughts on if I sideboarded okay, picking cards to come in seems to be easier for me than picking cards to come out.

This is the list that I actually played today.



Event 1 (3 rounds)

Round 1: ???
In the first event, round 1 was against some sort of U/R deck, but I honestly really didnt see enough of it to figure out what exactly it was. He was playing cards like Repeal, Frost Titan, Bribery, and an enchantment that gains control of a land (cant recall the name) among other wierd cards. I was able to twin game 1, where I probably didn't even have to with a goyf and a huntmaster in play, and beatdown in game 2. Felt like a free round 1 win. (1-0)

If anyone knows of a deck that uses these cards, it was probably that deck, but I have no clue what he was trying to do. I sideboarded in Thragtusk, Keranos, Dispel and removed Roast, Electrolyze and a Twin.

Round 2: RUG Scapeshift
Game 1 he baited my counterspells and was able to scapeshift me. Game 2 was very tough, I saw both flashfreezes from my board, and they went to good use, both stopping scapeshifts. I was in a bad place for a few turns after he resolved a Teferi. Fortunately for me, I was able to punch through with my goyfs, huntmasters and snap-bolt before he could cast another scapeshift with Teferi out. In game 3 I was able to push through a bunch of repeals and all four cryptics using tap my team/draw to win with beatdown, my ghost quarter in play made it harder for him to attempt to scapeshift, because he had one of his Valakuts in play already. (2-0)

I sideboarded out 2x Remand, Roast, Electrolyze, and brought in 2x Flashfreeze, Keranos, and Dispel.

Round 3: RG Tron
I lost game 1 when he got turn 3 Karn on the play, and then curved Turn 4 Wurmcoil into Turn 5 Ugin. Game 2 I got lucky with the ghost quarter, and was able to slow him down with that and tempo him out with remands/cryptics while I beatdown with a goyf and a clique. Game 3 I turn 4 Twinned him for an anti-climactic win. (3-0)

I sideboarded out Dispel, Electrolyze, Roast and brought in 2x molten rain and ancient grudge.


Event 2: (4 Rounds)

Round 1: 8 Rack
This one was pretty uneventful. He rips combo pieces from my hand and I win with goyfs/huntmaster and bolt-snap-bolt in both games. I don't think he was playing ensnaring bridge since he was playing Gurmag Anglers and some 7/7 that got -1/-1 for the number of cards I had in hand, his big dudes were no match for my exarchs tapping them so I could get in with the team. (1-0)

I sideboarded out Roast, Electrolyze, a Twin, dispel, and brought in Ancient Grudge, Keranos,


Round 2: RG Tron (different guy that 1st event)
Game 1 I had a combo heavy hand, and the opponent kept a hand with only one tron land. I was able to combo on turn 5 before he assembled Tron. Game 2, I spell snared his sylvan scrying, remanded his Karn after he got Tron online, ghost quartered one of his tron pieces which slowed him down enough that I won off of 2 goyfs before he found the missing piece again using snapcaster-spell snare on another scrying. (2-0)

I sideboarded out Dispel, Electrolyze, Roast, and brought in 2x molten rain and Ancient Grudge.

Round 3: RUG Scapeshift (same guy as 1st event)
Game 1 I play Goyf into remand his thing into Huntmaster and I am able to win with them pretty easily, countering the crytpics he tried to use to tap my guys down to buy him time. Sideboarded differently here removing some more of the combo. Played the beatdown/tempo game again in game 2 and got there pretty fast. (3-0)

I took out 2x Twin, 1x Exarch, 1x Roast and brought in 2x flashfreeze, keranos, and dispel

Round 4: Abzan CoCo
Game 1 I tap out to deal with his early plays and he CoCo's into too much value for me to overcome and I get beat down with a bunch of dudes. Game 2 I had a hard time dealing with value he gained with reveilark, and then he eternal witnessed for it and won with it. He pretty much rolled me in both games. I definitely need to work on making this matchup better if possible. (3-1)

I took out 2x Exarch, 2x Twin, 2x Remand, and brought in 2x Anger, Keranos, 2x Flashfreeze and Engineered Explosives


Overall I think the deck performed well, though I would like to have some more tournament testing against Jund, Burn, affinity, the mirror, and Grixis. Hopefully in tomorrow's event at the same store there will be more Tier-1 decks as it has better prizing than todays events did. I think that I want a second Grudge in the board, probably over either the Thragtusk or the Staticaster. I also think that I might have been able to get away with being more aggressive in boarding out the combo in some matchups.

For the WMCQ, I will have access to borrowing 2x Blood Moon and 4x Scalding Tarn to replace Molten Rains and Wooded Foothills with as well, so those changes will also be made to the list.

So I have a WMCQ coming up this weekend, and this is one of the lists I am currently testing for the event:

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the deck.



One major thought I have been having is Thragtusk vs Huntmaster. I'm not sure which I like better, I would probably run a 1/1 split main-side for whichever I choose, but I think I only have room for one of the two cards. Potentially even 1 of each, but I feel like they take the same slot and one is probably better than the other so I would run 2x one of them.

My other thought is regarding Blood Moon. I am trying to find a way to squeeze it into the board, but not sure what I should cut for it. I would like to have 2x in there. I have a lot of 1-of in the board, but I feel like a lot overlap against certain strategies and have some redundancies so there may be some I am safe cutting. Sudden Shock is a hedge against Infect, but maybe the slots could be better used with a more versatile answer card. Flashfreeze and Krosan Grip are in the same boats.

You make an interesting point on the combo matchups, because after reading through this thread and comparing to my list, I realized that I have still not had the opportunity to play against that type of deck yet. No one in my city plays Gishoalbrand, or Ad Nauseam, and the Titan and Twin players are are abandoning for things like Jund/k, UWR/Grixis Control, and Burn, because our local players basically hated the commonly played combo decks out of the local meta. (Which is why I stopped playing Twin)

I definitely see the merit of having some more disruptive elements, and I am definitely going to go out of my way to practice these matchups to further develop my decklist. I plan on taking this deck to an out of town WMCQ on Sept. 5th, so I am trying to figure out how to build for a broader meta than I have been.

I'm really liking the idea of Thalia, because the control decks have been one of my worse matchups so far in testing and I think she could help there, and at least eat a piece of removal they can't use on my knight of the reliquary now.

I have also found merfolk a bad matchup in my testing, though I haven't played it in a tournament yet. Having their guys unblockable really hurts as they can out race us usually. I found that Engineered Explosives has been a great sideboard card for them (and elves), putting it on 2 kills a lot in merfolk, I am still trying to find options against them too. I like Mirror Entity here and in general. Can help win a race big time in the late game.

I recently started building a Bant Company deck and after finding this thread, I notice that my build has gone in a slightly different direction with my creature selection. Has anyone else tried a more value/efficiency aggro direction, with a little less disruption? I find that having a straight-forward beating plan means that we can apply a lot of pressure fast, but I like the idea of intertwining some disruptive creatures into my deck, if it doesn't have to slow down the velocity of the deck. Currently I have not been impressed with Goyf in this deck due to not running many cards that will grow him. I would like to devote those 4 slots to some more valuable creatures, potentially some mainboard thalia (which would be quite good in my meta), or Rhox War Monk. I also have considered now that maybe a couple Birds of Paradise would be beneficial here.

I already have some changes in mind after reading through this thread, but this is what I was running up until now. What do you guys think of this list? I went 2-2 my first week playing it (it was a few cards different), and went 4-0 last night with it, both in a pretty competitive local modern league night.

I outlined my thoughts on my matches with it here:

Week 1:

Elves: Their deck was a lot faster at racing, and my deck was too removal lite to stop them from being able to build up devotion and push through a lot of damage. This feels like a bad matchup and I am looking for ways to help it. I opted to include an Engineered Explosives in my sideboard as a tool against them, but would like to explore more options still. He 2-0'd me here. (0-1 now)

Abzan: I think this matchup is actually pretty good, but I lost this round due to misplaying. I didn't cast collected company in response to him killing my hierarch while I had 3 mana up, and then didn't drew my 4th land for a few turns where I fell way behind. I think keeping up pressure consistently is key here, explosive starts with mana dork into 3-drop into collected company is often a lot for abzan to handle before they can even drop a seige rhino. (0-2 now)

UWR Control: This was a matchup that I am still unsure of who has the upper hand. I think it really comes down to how the Control player draws here. I was able to 2-0 him by trying to bait his counterspells with creatures before running out CoCos and didn't overcommit to the board. If you make them use their mass removal taking care of just 1 or 2 guys you should have enough gas to power through their answers. I made great use of Moorland Haunt grinding through all his resources and winning with a few tokens. (1-2 now)

Jund: I think that this is a pretty good matchup for me, even though both this player and the Jund player I beat at the other event seemed to think that they think their deck generally has the advantage, even though they lost. We can be more explosive and my deck was built with a Jund heavy meta in mind as well, I can usually power through and kill them early. If the games went late, I still had good topdecks due to 27 creatures (only 4-6 of them are bad topdecks depending on situaion) and the 4 companys, so I'm nearly always drawing gas consistently into the late game. This match went 2-1, and I think if we can get a fast start we have an advantage here. (2-2 now)

Week 2:

G/W Hexproof "Boggles": This one was basically a race. I sided out my paths, and remands, and brought in my reclamation sage, flashfreezes, engineered explosives, and even dromokas commands just for the enchantment removal and a +1/+1 counter. Both of us won our games where we were on the play, so I guess I lucked out by winning the die roll at the start. I win 2-1 (1-0 now)

Burn: I think we have a pretty good burn matchup, and after resolving a kor firewalker I have never lost a game to burn. We can block most of the guys and go wider than them. Post board I brought in the flashfreezes, the firewalkers, the dromokas commands and the negate. I took out the remands, a path, and the hierarchs. I won 2-1 losing the first game. (2-0 now)

Naya Humans: This deck is this guys brew, and he plays it very well. It's basically a naya small zoo deck, except with mostly humans. Plays things like champion of the parish, mayor of avarbuck, monastery swiftspear, wild nacatl, and burn spells. The creatures in my deck beat his creatures, and I can generally match how wide he was going, so it felt pretty good. Stalling him on the ground and winning off of a skaab ruinator one game, and him scooping to a CoCo at end of his turn 4 hitting a smiter and geist while I had a hierarch and a smiter in play already. Post board I brought in Dromokas Commands & Kor Firewalkers and I removed the remands, negate and an eternal witness (not sure why on the witness, just couldn't think of something else to take out) Won 2-0 (3-0 now)

Jund: different guy than last week, again thinks his deck is better in the matchup. (Both jund guys are my friends so we were talking about it after games) Game 1 I am on the play and I have no play till turn 3 but the hand is 4 land, geist, CoCo, path so I keep it. I jam the giest on 3 and pray he doesnt have liliana. I swing with geist, and get in for 4 while he trades off his freshly played 2/2 scavenging ooze. I cast CoCo on end of turn 4, and hit a voice of Resurgence and a Smiter. The game grinds out for a bit, but I eventually have more creatures than he can deal with and I beat him. I sided out 2 Remand, 1 Geist, 2 Pridemage, and 1 Hierarch and bring in the flashfreezes, dromokas commands and mirran crusaders. After getting thoughtsiezed turn 1 (opp. at 16), I curve Hierarch> Smiter> Attack for 5 (opp. at 11), and EoT Company hitting Mirran Crusader & Skaab Ruinator. Untap with a lethal swing on board and win. Go 2-0 (4-0 now)

I think what he is asking is if they can play the Fulminator, then immediately sac it for the effect, which they can. In this case Sudden Shock will not help, but a lot of the time, players will hold it and try to get value out of the 2/2 body before saccing, which means you have a window to shock it.

I also like the aggressive style in this deck better than the slower controlling role some people take with it. The boros charms mainboard are an interesting thought. I used to run a pair of them, but eventually took them out. I have recently been thinking of putting a couple back in, especially because I play in a jund heavy meta, where my opponents are doing a lot of damage to themselves and 4dmg can really make a big difference, and as well it can give my angels and cliques indestructible vs their terminates/abrupt decays, and even geist vs. blockers.

Chandra is interesting, but I would suggest trying out Elspeth, Knight-Errant in that slot and see if you like it. She also helps geist punch through, by giving it flying and making it a 5/5 which can be absolutely bonkers if you can get it on curve. Also, she does more work on her own, as she can make 1/1's and turn them into flying 4/4s.

With the rise of Kolaghan's Command, in addition to your other points, I am also especially weary of running Batterskull.

It might be a budget thing, but I would also suggest you run a couple Vendilion Clique here, I find the flash 3/1 very strong as an aggressive play.

Honestly I think only offering it every once and a while is what keeps it making money. If it was there year round, people wouldn't get hyped for it, queues would not fill as fast, and it would be harder and harder to fire off drafts for it.

I don't like squelch, but Sudden Shock is definitely a good option out of the sideboard. It also works wonders against infect creatures, scavenging ooze, and still takes out other small creatures like snapcaster, dark confidant, hierarch etc.

In the middle of tweaking my cube and I have a few options I am looking for some advice on:

Dungeon Geists vs. Icefall Regent Does the added power and targeting tax make it worth the extra mana?

I currently run both, but I am looking to cut one of them for Whirler Rogue because it will synergize well with my equipment theme.

Also relevant to my equipment theme, would it be worth it to run

End Hostilities over Day of Judgment as an answer to equipment? (The cube already has Wrath of God, Damnation, and Supreme Verdict for other hard sweepers)

Lately, the big deck in my meta has been Jund. I want to go over my thoughts on this matchup because I have heard a lot of people talk about how difficult of a matchup this is for us, but I disagree. I think that people are too focused on the fact that geist doesn't fare well in creature combat vs jund, but there is a lot more to the matchup that tilts it in our favor in my opinion based on experience.

I have had a fairly easy time beating jund. I have found that if you can get in a hit or two with a creature, you can usually burn them out pretty easily because of how much self damage they do. I often will just launch geist into his demise so that the angel can get in for 4, or if I have the tools, you can just chain removal and win off of geist. I think something key to realize is that, we don't need to protect geist if it will put us in a position that we can get them in burn range. In this matchup, Elsepth has been a major powerhouse because it gets creatures over big blockers, and can help finish off a game through a big board state.

The only games I lose are when liliana gets out of control, making me get rid of too many resources. Between flash creatures, countermagic and burn spells though, most of the time, I can answer lili. I think the key for me in this matchup has been being able to answer their early plays, then apply a lot of pressure with fliers and geist and burn them out before they can create an overwhelming board state. It requires tight play, but I find that the matchup is good once you figure out how to play through it. It's almost like you are playing control until turn 4, then you just try to burst them down.

From the sideboard, I bring in the 2x Keranos, 2x Flashfreeze and 1x Celestial Purge, and take out 4x Remand and 1x Geist.

Keranos is a great card for the late game, it can help us make sure we are getting action in the late game by giving us another card when we draw land, and also helping close out the game by sending bolts at the opponent. Flashfreeze is another answer to most of the creatures in the deck, as well as a bunch of their removal. Purge is pretty self explanatory, it's another answer to the delve guys that bolts cant kill as well as liliana.

I remove the remands because I don't think that it is as impactful againt jund as they are in many other matchups. They are good vs the delve guys, but otherwise, bouncing a spell isn't really going to be that good most of the time when they have a lot of cheap powerful threats. I drop 1 geist, because I generally don't want to drop it turn 3 anyways.

Depending on the build, I will also want to side out my spell pierces and bring in the second negate and engineered explosives for better answers to liliana, and countering important spells in the late game.

Here is my current list for reference. I have recently been considering to try running a couple crackling doom in my board and a Blood Crypt or Watery Grave in the land base. I used to run them, and I think they might be good again.