March of the Machines can't kill HPDW. It regenerates.
They can regenerate, but they'll still be 0/0. You know what that means: it means they lose in combat to Relentless Rats, then they regenerate, then they lose in combat to Relentless Rats again, then they regenerate again, and so on and so on until the Relentless Rats have won so many combats that even Jon Finkel is impressed.
I can pile shuffle it. It takes a little while, but it also helps me make sure the cards are all there. This deck would be a lot worse if a Relentless Rats went missing.
Only 60 card decks? Really? Not only are you going to lose to the three people who still play Sanity Grinding, but you're also leaving your manabases less consistent for no good reason. Remember, Boggart Forager is still in the format. You better put some more Rats in to increase your consistency:
Disagree. You're saying that townies won't laugh at weak cases? Surely scum would want to do what town would do, right? So then how can you predict what scum would do? Seems WIFOM.
Townies will laugh at weak cases if they believe it's probably a scum attack. In any game, weak opponents will often cause arrogance, and this remains true for both town and scum. Thing is, scum have clearer knowledge of whether the player attacking them actually is an opponent or not, so arrogance is more likely to come from scum.
The WIFOM defense doesn't sit well with me. Obviously scum trying to emulate town play is an impediment to using any tell. So what do we do, not use tells? How would we catch scum then?
My opinion is that mocking your attackers is scummy. Townies don't know for certain whether their attackers have a misguided or malicious motive, so they tend not to presume that dissuasion will be easy. Scum know for certain that there won't be any malicious attacks on them, hence they're more likely to be arrogant about perceived weak attacks.
The vote on Dragoon and accusing SO of not voicing an opinion on the IP case when yes, he did. There's also #26 that rubs me the wrong way but I don't know what to ask about it. So I'm not asking anything yet.
Maybe he genuinely got a bad feeling specifically from Dragoon, and genuinely missed Some One's #255. Or if he didn't, then he needs to clearly state what's his gripe about it.
I'm not sure how to clarify my case on Dragoon any further.
SIGH! Cmon, how can a towns death be good? We're not revolving around you. Is it this tunnel vision? Now you lead off this day like you did the other, badly. Vote ZDS
What do you mean by "We're not revolving around you"?
The last post I made before the post that's 2 posts above called for IP to post (alongside 2 other things, the second of which is interesting). From this series of events, EZ cited me for dodging the IP issue entirely and I want to know what he meant by "dodging."
The IP case had become the hot topic, and you hadn't given an opinion on it. Calling for him to post isn't an opinion so much as it is acknowledging that there's a case on him to which he hadn't defended himself from yet.
I'm surprised Zak didn't understand what SO was speaking about. There's so many loose ends with him (Zak, not SO), I'm not too happy. FoS : EvilZak
I knew what he was talking about, I just didn't know what he wanted from me. And speaking of reaching, how in the world could loose ends possibly have anything to do with my alignment?
So you're voting for me because I disagreed with you?
Last I checked, there was hardly a shortage of people who disagreed with me. Except for IP obviously, the absent LatD, and SO who's managed to dodge the IP issue entirely (FoS: SO), everyone else has explicitly suspected IP. So no, that's not why I'm singling you out.
All I was pointing out was that while you think A + B + C = town, I see A + B + C = scum.
Right, except nothing you said follows from any protown thought process that I can think of.
"Afraid to lie to survive" is silly as I've previously touched on. He's already heading to the gallows with his head just inches from the noose. If he gets caught lying, he has nothing to lose. Why would he be afraid of it?
And by saying he's "afraid to lie" you're implicitly acknowledging that he's not lying. QED.
"Being a broken record obviously isn't helping his case". How does that lead to him being scum? I can see why someone (i.e., ZDS and Ace) would believe this is a WIFOMy null-tell, but not why someone would believe this is a scum-tell.
"and the majority of his defense is OMGUS." is the only part of that paragraph I could see coming from a townie perspective. (Even so, it's not "pure" OMGUS, since he's presented reasons to suspect ZDS, and townies attack their attackers all the time. It's not a good tell.)
"He has a self-defeatist attitude" It's as if you're just stating arbitrary facts about IP and then saying that it makes him scum.
"and pleads to emotion a little bit." See above. Pleading to emotion is human nature, not a tell.
Your entire post is wrong, and not in the sense that you're misguided. It's wrong in the sense that you took the conclusion you want (IP's lynch) and then forced your arguments to reach that conclusion. That is a scum tactic, and that is why I'm voting you.
Overall, I see it a little differently--it seems that he's afraid to lie to survive. Being a broken record obviously isn't helping his case and the majority of his defense is OMGUS. He has a self-defeatist attitude and pleads to emotion a little bit. If anything, the collection of all those little things actually makes him appear more scummy, at least in my eyes.
"Afraid to lie to survive"? He's afraid to survive? This is so forced it hurts.
I'd say my rolename is about as "zany" as Kiwi Strawberry. I suspect the mod used a wide range of zaniness in role names. And I still can't see any possible name scum would have that they wouldn't want to claim.
You may not be aware of this, possibly because you are not very experienced, but scum do make errors, they do make suboptimal play, and they do not consider every single option they have.
You are essentially excusing his scummy behaviour on the basis that "if he were scum, he would have played better". This is a fallacious line of thinking. Scum are just as error-prone as townies.
Yes, but they're prone to different errors than townies are, because they strive for different goals than townies do. Scum's primary goal is to survive (especially for scum in IP's position) - thus, scum mistakes are botched attempts at survival. If someone's not even trying to survive, that's not a scum mistake.
It's very easy to just repeat the same thing over and over again. You will notice IP does pretty much nothing else (which is scummy), and does so in a very forceful way (which is scummy).
Don't be fooled by the "my lynch will give the town info" line, it's common practice from scum.
I'm aware scum say things that don't make sense as scum to WIFOM. If that line was the only thing pointing towards IP's goal not being survival, I wouldn't be arguing the point at all.
It's a collection of little things here: sticking to one defense religously, claiming vanilla, and several instances of resigning himself to his own lynch - any one of which on its own would not even be a tell at all, but taken together indicate that he's unwilling to lie to survive.
, or to trick town into clearing him indefinitely because "a scum could possibly do that". Best to judge IP by his behaviour in his responses to posts (which, quite frankly, have left a lot to be desired).
There was no way he could have known that such a trick would work. He'd be flushing a lot of opportunities to wiggle out of the noose down the toilet, with no indication whatsoever that he'd get even a single benefit out of it. Unless there's something I'm missing, I'm ruling this possibility out.
If I were in your shoes, I might spend more time on each person that brings up a point against you. I say might simply because I've never been in your shoes so I can't say how I would react to other townies attacking me.
Why'd you say "other townies" rather than "other players" here?
2. EvilZak - Throws some WIFOM out to try to save IP. Seems scummy in a few posts, This is a very weak #2, and is mostly a push to get some more discussion from EZ happening.
You say you want more discussion from me, yet you don't even acknowledge my previous post? In what universe does that make sense?
Your mom went on the stack and got stuck.
They can regenerate, but they'll still be 0/0. You know what that means: it means they lose in combat to Relentless Rats, then they regenerate, then they lose in combat to Relentless Rats again, then they regenerate again, and so on and so on until the Relentless Rats have won so many combats that even Jon Finkel is impressed.
I can pile shuffle it. It takes a little while, but it also helps me make sure the cards are all there. This deck would be a lot worse if a Relentless Rats went missing.
1000000 Relentless Rats
4 Coat of Arms
4 Thrumming Stone
4 March of the Machines (vs. HPDW)
3 Volcanic Fallout (vs. Tokens)
4 Thought Hemmorhage (vs. the mirror)
4 Deathmark (vs. 4Goyfs56Forests.dec)
Townies will laugh at weak cases if they believe it's probably a scum attack. In any game, weak opponents will often cause arrogance, and this remains true for both town and scum. Thing is, scum have clearer knowledge of whether the player attacking them actually is an opponent or not, so arrogance is more likely to come from scum.
The WIFOM defense doesn't sit well with me. Obviously scum trying to emulate town play is an impediment to using any tell. So what do we do, not use tells? How would we catch scum then?
I don't even understand what you're saying here.
IP is town.
My opinion is that mocking your attackers is scummy. Townies don't know for certain whether their attackers have a misguided or malicious motive, so they tend not to presume that dissuasion will be easy. Scum know for certain that there won't be any malicious attacks on them, hence they're more likely to be arrogant about perceived weak attacks.
"likely"? Under what circumstances, unlikely or otherwise, would it be beneficial to simply pile votes on you?
If you're gonna reduce ZDS's vote on you to barning rather than argue against it, then yes I would.
Vote: Ace
I'm not sure how to clarify my case on Dragoon any further.
255 is really just fence-sitting.
Sorry, I meant that in the context of when I FOS'd him for not giving one.
Why can't you ask about them?
What do you mean by "We're not revolving around you"?
The IP case had become the hot topic, and you hadn't given an opinion on it. Calling for him to post isn't an opinion so much as it is acknowledging that there's a case on him to which he hadn't defended himself from yet.
I knew what he was talking about, I just didn't know what he wanted from me. And speaking of reaching, how in the world could loose ends possibly have anything to do with my alignment?
Yes to both.
What about it?
Last I checked, there was hardly a shortage of people who disagreed with me. Except for IP obviously, the absent LatD, and SO who's managed to dodge the IP issue entirely (FoS: SO), everyone else has explicitly suspected IP. So no, that's not why I'm singling you out.
Right, except nothing you said follows from any protown thought process that I can think of.
"Afraid to lie to survive" is silly as I've previously touched on. He's already heading to the gallows with his head just inches from the noose. If he gets caught lying, he has nothing to lose. Why would he be afraid of it?
And by saying he's "afraid to lie" you're implicitly acknowledging that he's not lying. QED.
"Being a broken record obviously isn't helping his case". How does that lead to him being scum? I can see why someone (i.e., ZDS and Ace) would believe this is a WIFOMy null-tell, but not why someone would believe this is a scum-tell.
"and the majority of his defense is OMGUS." is the only part of that paragraph I could see coming from a townie perspective. (Even so, it's not "pure" OMGUS, since he's presented reasons to suspect ZDS, and townies attack their attackers all the time. It's not a good tell.)
"He has a self-defeatist attitude" It's as if you're just stating arbitrary facts about IP and then saying that it makes him scum.
"and pleads to emotion a little bit." See above. Pleading to emotion is human nature, not a tell.
Your entire post is wrong, and not in the sense that you're misguided. It's wrong in the sense that you took the conclusion you want (IP's lynch) and then forced your arguments to reach that conclusion. That is a scum tactic, and that is why I'm voting you.
Hence why I said "any one of which on its own would not even be a tell at all".
"Afraid to lie to survive"? He's afraid to survive?
Vote: Dragoon26
The first step to counting to a million is counting to one.
Yes, but they're prone to different errors than townies are, because they strive for different goals than townies do. Scum's primary goal is to survive (especially for scum in IP's position) - thus, scum mistakes are botched attempts at survival. If someone's not even trying to survive, that's not a scum mistake.
I'm aware scum say things that don't make sense as scum to WIFOM. If that line was the only thing pointing towards IP's goal not being survival, I wouldn't be arguing the point at all.
It's a collection of little things here: sticking to one defense religously, claiming vanilla, and several instances of resigning himself to his own lynch - any one of which on its own would not even be a tell at all, but taken together indicate that he's unwilling to lie to survive.
Since when is it scummy? Scum-lurkers are virtually always town-lurkers as well.
Then why hasn't he self-hammered?
There was no way he could have known that such a trick would work. He'd be flushing a lot of opportunities to wiggle out of the noose down the toilet, with no indication whatsoever that he'd get even a single benefit out of it. Unless there's something I'm missing, I'm ruling this possibility out.
You say you want more discussion from me, yet you don't even acknowledge my previous post? In what universe does that make sense?