If you're running 5 colors why not run the best card in Standard?
I'm mostly treating this as a BUG shell splashing Red and White. Which means that Mantis Rider while cute doesn't fit - because he requires two of the splash colors by turn 3.
I've been thinking about putting Torrent Elemental in my sideboard, but I'm not sure what I'd pull out.
I love my manabase. I am able to consistently hit all 5 colors by turn 5 to drop a Chromanticore if I have one in hand, able to have BB to delve into a Soulflayer early... Haven't had an issue with missing a color yet.
My only issue is that it hurts. With the amount of lifelink we get though (through Chromantiflayers or Chromanticores) it's not that big a deal. If you're really scared of it though using the CIPT lifelands might be an option - but it might be too slow. Untested.
Also untested is a bunch of fetches and basics, but I feel like that'll cause problems like you said TLK.
He cleared the field with Anger of the Gods and a Lightning Strike to kill my Siege Rhino and dorks, then played Narset, Enlightened Master T6, swung T7. The first time he swung he hit Temporal Trespass, Howl from the Horde x2 and Magma Jet. Used the Jet to kill my only blocker out and then took 5 extra turns (or something stupid like that). I died before I really played anything (I kept a slow hand because I mulled to 5 to see land) because during those turns he flipped 2 more extra turns and a bunch of burn.
What I took to Game Day. Went 4-1-1 (ID), undefeated until top 4. Only dropped 2 games all night - one was to Narset combo because he was stuck on 2 lands game 1 so I had no idea what he was playing and only brought in the Negates - which I didn't have when Narset swung. The second was in top 8 to nut draws. I was the #1 seed all night (until I lost) and this is the first time that's ever happened to me... so I feel good about that.
Round 1: Rabble Agro
Game 1 he was stuck on 3 lands and couldn't kill my T3 Rhino and T4 Chromanticore.
Game 2 I had a T2 Circle of Flame and then another T3. He scooped when I cast the second one.
Round 2: Gruul Devotion
Game 1 was really really close... but he kept drawing dorks and I landed a T5 Hexproof Indestructible Chromantiflayer.
Game 2 was insane... I was at 1 life more than once, but a Hexproof Chromantiflayer with 2 Chromanticores bestowed on it got me there.
Round 3: Narset Combo
Explained above.
Round 4: ID vs U/W Control
So I go into top 8 feeling comfortable, maybe a little cocky.
First round of top 8: Mardu Agro
Game 1: He has no idea what Soulflayer does, so when I T3 a Chromantiflayer he asked to read the card, looks at his hand, says "Game 2?" and we reshuffle. Maybe he doesn't mainboard any removal? (In Mardu?!)
Game 2: Another T3 Chromantiflayer and he does an EOT Crackling Doom. He has a Crackling Doom for my next 3 threats as well. I lose.
Game 3: He doesn't stand a chance - doesn't have any Dooms for my T4 Chromaflayer, nor my T5 Rhino, nor my T6 Sagu Mauler, and then I bestow a Chromanticore onto the Mauler and don't even get to my combat step before he scoops.
Top 4: U/W Control I ID'ed with
Not going to describe each game except to say that for every threat, he had an answer. End Hostilities, Erase, Banishing Light, Devouring Light, counters for days... it was rough. It didn't help that Game 2 I was on tilt and forgot Sagu Maulers have hexproof and let him Banishing Light one - which I know wasn't intentional, we just both forgot it had hexproof.
Do I just play poorly against control, or is that a tough matchup for us? I mean - one incorrect play wouldn't have won me the match (likely that game though).
This deck is just begging for you to use Quickling. There are so many interactions with it in this deck. You can have Hornet's Nest block something, get tokens, then play Quickling to bounce the Nest back to your hand.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't do this. If the Nest takes 2 damage, it dies as a state based action, which you can't respond to by flashing in Quickling.
I've seen people do stuff like bounce Pearl Lake Ancient after blocking what would normally be lethal to it (ie, blocking a deathtouch creature) at tournament levels before, and judges not having a problem with it.
I believe you can declare the PLA as a blocker, and then bounce it before moving into the assign damage phase. But you can't have it bounced after lethal damage is dealt to it.
Exactly this. Damage doesn't use the stack, so you can't respond to it.
Once lethal has been assigned, the Nest is dead - the triggers still get put on the stack and resolve, but the Nest is dead.
This deck is just begging for you to use Quickling. There are so many interactions with it in this deck. You can have Hornet's Nest block something, get tokens, then play Quickling to bounce the Nest back to your hand.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't do this. If the Nest takes 2 damage, it dies as a state based action, which you can't respond to by flashing in Quickling.
I think in a deck using Bident of Thassa, you'd be remiss in not putting Bow of Nylea in the mainboard. There's waaaay too much synergy between the two to pass up. Force them to attack you, let your deathtouched mana dorks block and kill off other stuff for your bigger threats to punch through damage. A deathtouched Courser is not something that a lot of people want to play against.
Bow of Nylea only gives attackers Deathtouch - so your blocking Mana dorks just die.
This is what I'm going to be trying out this week - and likely take to Game Day. My only thought might be to lower the Silumgar count for more Pharikas... for Indestructible.
You have 19 black mana sources, how is Utter End being easier on the mana than Downfall? You're playing more black mana sources than some UB Control lists.
If the argument is that End hits more things you care about then sure, I canget behind that, but being easier to cast seems ridiculous.
He means Banishing Light is easier on the mana base (which it is).
To be clear - I only had trouble with lands in the control match, and I took one of those games.
Mono Red blew me out by turn 4 both games. I didn't have a change to do anything, even though I was hitting lands perfectly on curve.
I think you're right about the Mystics though - they should be lands as they really don't contribute much of anything. I'll probably add another Confluence and a Bivouac (for another red source).
Mistcutter is there both for Haste and for against control - it forces a decision between downfalling Sidisi or Mistcutter, it adds haste as a Delve option, and he swings through Pearl Lake Ancient.
I'm not a huge fan of the Phoenix in here. The double red isn't trivial to get, Ferocious triggers aren't consistent enough... at least in my build. If it works for you, great!
My meta is being overrun by mono red and R/W tokens, so I might have to sideboard 4x circle of flame or something just for that matchup.
Here's my version that has been doing pretty well... went 2-2 (loss vs mono-red agro and u/b control where I couldn't find land to save my life) last FNM. Really need ideas for the sideboard for fast agro.
Most ridiculous play ever was T1 thoughtseize myself, throw Chromanticore in the yard. T2 get greedy and Commune with the Gods, get Pharika and a Caraytid. T3 cast Mistcutter for 0, cast Soulflayer delving Pharika, Caryatid, Mistcutter, and Chromanticore.
If you could reliably make him a creature upon him entering the field, he'd be good (a 12/5 indestructible haste).
No, he'd never be a 12/5 indestructible haste.
His ability only targets other creatures (can't target himself) and it's +x/+x where x is the creatures power - so even if he could target himself he'd be a 12/11.
I'm mostly treating this as a BUG shell splashing Red and White. Which means that Mantis Rider while cute doesn't fit - because he requires two of the splash colors by turn 3.
I've been thinking about putting Torrent Elemental in my sideboard, but I'm not sure what I'd pull out.
My only issue is that it hurts. With the amount of lifelink we get though (through Chromantiflayers or Chromanticores) it's not that big a deal. If you're really scared of it though using the CIPT lifelands might be an option - but it might be too slow. Untested.
Also untested is a bunch of fetches and basics, but I feel like that'll cause problems like you said TLK.
It was stupid.
4 Opulent Palace
2 Frontier Bivouac
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Yavimaya Coast
3 Mana Confluence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Abandon
4 Chromanticore
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
3 Siege Rhino
3 Sagu Mauler
4 Soulflayer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
Spells
3 Murderous Cut
3 Sultai Charm
3 Commune with the Gods
2 Banishing Light
1 Charging Badger
3 Circle of Flame
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Negate
2 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
What I took to Game Day. Went 4-1-1 (ID), undefeated until top 4. Only dropped 2 games all night - one was to Narset combo because he was stuck on 2 lands game 1 so I had no idea what he was playing and only brought in the Negates - which I didn't have when Narset swung. The second was in top 8 to nut draws. I was the #1 seed all night (until I lost) and this is the first time that's ever happened to me... so I feel good about that.
Round 1: Rabble Agro
Game 1 he was stuck on 3 lands and couldn't kill my T3 Rhino and T4 Chromanticore.
Game 2 I had a T2 Circle of Flame and then another T3. He scooped when I cast the second one.
Round 2: Gruul Devotion
Game 1 was really really close... but he kept drawing dorks and I landed a T5 Hexproof Indestructible Chromantiflayer.
Game 2 was insane... I was at 1 life more than once, but a Hexproof Chromantiflayer with 2 Chromanticores bestowed on it got me there.
Round 3: Narset Combo
Explained above.
Round 4: ID vs U/W Control
So I go into top 8 feeling comfortable, maybe a little cocky.
First round of top 8: Mardu Agro
Game 1: He has no idea what Soulflayer does, so when I T3 a Chromantiflayer he asked to read the card, looks at his hand, says "Game 2?" and we reshuffle. Maybe he doesn't mainboard any removal? (In Mardu?!)
Game 2: Another T3 Chromantiflayer and he does an EOT Crackling Doom. He has a Crackling Doom for my next 3 threats as well. I lose.
Game 3: He doesn't stand a chance - doesn't have any Dooms for my T4 Chromaflayer, nor my T5 Rhino, nor my T6 Sagu Mauler, and then I bestow a Chromanticore onto the Mauler and don't even get to my combat step before he scoops.
Top 4: U/W Control I ID'ed with
Not going to describe each game except to say that for every threat, he had an answer. End Hostilities, Erase, Banishing Light, Devouring Light, counters for days... it was rough. It didn't help that Game 2 I was on tilt and forgot Sagu Maulers have hexproof and let him Banishing Light one - which I know wasn't intentional, we just both forgot it had hexproof.
Do I just play poorly against control, or is that a tough matchup for us? I mean - one incorrect play wouldn't have won me the match (likely that game though).
Exactly this. Damage doesn't use the stack, so you can't respond to it.
Once lethal has been assigned, the Nest is dead - the triggers still get put on the stack and resolve, but the Nest is dead.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can't do this. If the Nest takes 2 damage, it dies as a state based action, which you can't respond to by flashing in Quickling.
Bow of Nylea only gives attackers Deathtouch - so your blocking Mana dorks just die.
4 Opulent Palace
2 Frontier Bivouac
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Yavimaya Coast
3 Mana Confluence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Abandon
4 Chromanticore
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
3 Siege Rhino
3 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
4 Soulflayer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
Spells
3 Murderous Cut
3 Sultai Charm
3 Commune with the Gods
2 Banishing Light
1 Charging Badger
3 Circle of Flame
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Murderous Cut
2 Negate
1 Sultai Charm
He means Banishing Light is easier on the mana base (which it is).
Mono Red blew me out by turn 4 both games. I didn't have a change to do anything, even though I was hitting lands perfectly on curve.
I think you're right about the Mystics though - they should be lands as they really don't contribute much of anything. I'll probably add another Confluence and a Bivouac (for another red source).
Mistcutter is there both for Haste and for against control - it forces a decision between downfalling Sidisi or Mistcutter, it adds haste as a Delve option, and he swings through Pearl Lake Ancient.
I'm not a huge fan of the Phoenix in here. The double red isn't trivial to get, Ferocious triggers aren't consistent enough... at least in my build. If it works for you, great!
My meta is being overrun by mono red and R/W tokens, so I might have to sideboard 4x circle of flame or something just for that matchup.
Most ridiculous play ever was T1 thoughtseize myself, throw Chromanticore in the yard. T2 get greedy and Commune with the Gods, get Pharika and a Caraytid. T3 cast Mistcutter for 0, cast Soulflayer delving Pharika, Caryatid, Mistcutter, and Chromanticore.
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Forest
1x Frontier Bivouac
4x Llanowar Wastes
3x Mana Confluence
1x Nomad Outpost
4x Opulent Palace
2x Sandsteppe Citadel
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Yavimaya Coast
Enablers:
4x Chromanticore
1x Mistcutter Hydra
3x Pharika, God of Affliction
3x Silumgar, the Drifting Death
4x Soulflayer
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Commune with the Gods
4x Satyr Wayfinder
4x Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
3x Sultai Charm
Other:
2x Elvish Mystic
3x Murderous Cut
2x Thoughtseize
15x ???
No, he'd never be a 12/5 indestructible haste.
His ability only targets other creatures (can't target himself) and it's +x/+x where x is the creatures power - so even if he could target himself he'd be a 12/11.
War-Name Aspirant looks like a worse Stormblood Berserker imo