I've just had a quick browse on cardhoarder and it turns out Fatal Push is only 0.28 tix, so it's more affordable than I thought. I've added 2 to the MB of my list, I also picked up 2 Shambling Vent. I also added 1 Start // Finish in place of 1 Midnight Haunting, I'll keep everyone updated on how I get along with it. I intend to run my deck through a friendly league or two then step into the Competitive League.
The Mana Tithes are a bit cute, I agree on that point. They'll be the first thing to go when I put a bit more money into the list. Probably going to be a mix of Thoughtseize and Fatal Push.
I've yet to use Slaughter the Strong in a game, and you're probably correct about just swapping it out for a real wrath, the 3 cmc cost attracted me though!
With regards to Midnight Haunting I feel pretty strongly that the flying is more relevant than vigilance, Virtue gives vigilance and the evasion is the best way to get in damage. That said the Finish side of Start // Finish seems like it could be more useful, I'll maybe try out a 3/2 split of the two of them. I feel like at least some number of Midnight Haunting is needed.
With the manabase what would you swap out some shocks for? More basics, a Fetid Heath or two or another vault and the 4th Ghost Quarter?
Thanks for your points! Originally I had much more planeswalkers, in the form of another Gideon and 2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad but that was far too many!
I run the 3 Damping Sphere because Tron is a nightmare match up. I play exclusively online and there are some budget considerations at the moment (I'll get more Thoughtseizes when I next get paid for exmple, probably going 3/2 split with IoK) and I could probably do with some Fatal Pushes (maybe replacing Mana Tithe).
When you get the right draw with this deck everything just feels so good. Tilting Tron players with Mana Tithe, Damping Sphere, and Stony Silence out of the board is just the best. I've also beaten Elves and Storm off the back of Damping Sphere. I think this list is leaning towards the control builds but there's enough token producers to turn up the heat when required. Sorin, Solemn Visitor has been one of my fabourites since KtK Standard and I'm probably always going to run at least 3 of them, the life gain is almost never irrelevant.
Midnight Haunting has been phenomenal, turn 3 holding up removal or 2 evasive tokens into a turn 4 Sorin or Virtue + something is usually a back breaking move, it just provides so much flexibility.
I've tried a Renegade Rallier build using Oath of Nissa with Excavator in the board for the Tron matchup, I didn't see Tron so never got the chance to try it out. That build was admittedly not optimised at all, it wasn't until I lost to Sun and Moon that I realised I had no maindeck ways to beat a Walker (bad deck building on my part).
With Oath my biggest issue was cycling away wraths to the bottom of my deck, I was contemplating a wrath on a stick to counter that, maybe Cataclysmic Gearhulk but it just seems... Bad. The only other one I can think of is Magus of the Disk which seems even weaker.
I've budgeted 3 MTGO friendly leagues for December in which I'll be running GW Emeria, I'll let everyone know how I get on and which build I went for.
I know you guys are less keen on the GW variety, and its probably incorrect to not run Renegade Rallier at all, but I found when using it that in the games it was good I was already far ahead, and when I was behind it was a miserable. Nissa has been exceptional, a real game winner when she drops, animating a land or getting back a permanent to be recast is super useful.
Does anyone have any helpful advice to make this more competitive. I ran the "stock" GW Rallier Emeria build through an MTGO league and just got absolutely wrecked so I'm experimenting!
Edit: Does anyone have any thoughts about Bishop of Rebirth as potential Sun Titan's 5-8?
Edit 2: Super corner case I know, but Wheel of Sun and Moon targeting yourself against a mill deck is absolutely hilarious.
Good point with the non-basics. Battlefield Forge is probably a solid 4x alongside 4x Clifftop Retreat. my current manabase after some more playing is:
Thanks for all the suggestions! I agree that splashing white seems like a pretty smart move for the Refurbish and dropping Salvage Titan for Inkwell Leviathan also seems smart.
Nahiri, is a great shout and would make a great deal of sense in the mainboard but I'm unsure what to cut for her. Some testing required here I believe!
I've put this together tonight on MTGO after spending ages looking at Amonkhet cards, after a while my mind wandered and I got dragged back to Combustible Gearhulk (more for it's price than anything else).
I'm not totally sold on the manabase yet, I feel like it needs the most tweaking of all things. I very rarely don't have the colours required to cast spells I just think the utility lands could provide a bit more utility.
The ideal "god hand" would land a turn 3 Gearhulk flipping 3 Sundering Titans into our graveyard and hitting the opponent for 24. Magical Christmas land as I believe the expression goes.
Just started my first league on MTGO using this list (currently 0-2 so I'm doing something wrong), I know it has some super janky combo's but it does work more often than you would think.
Deflecting Palm has been awesome, absolutely amazing, it's a free win against infect. And Akroma is awesome, blink her for the surprise beats is epic. The Sundial combo always gets people in game 1 and then it normally gets taken out for whatever hate cards are most required. if I'm playing colours that have poor artefact removal it does stay in.
I'm on a little bit of a budget so some sensible advice would be great (I can't afford Magus of the Moon or Blood moon, nor can I afford fetches).
Just something to add to the op, I've been using Silumgar Sorcerer as a replacement for snap caster in my U/R Delver, works great with a young pyro out.
I've removed the Banishing Lights from the board (too much enchantment hate running around) and replaced them with 2 copies of Ashen Rider and an extra Silence the Believers The Chief's actually have a great synergy with the rest of the deck and also against the meta. Most matched I've played have been long grindy affairs going to turn 15 or 16 and most decks run plentiful spot removal, so your creatures *will* die, being able to Return to the Ranks and bring back all your chief's is a huge blowout as suddenly you have a board of 5/5 or 6/6 creatures.
The drown's are a meta call, this deck sucks against Hornet Queen and I have no issues wiping my own board to remove a queen and her spawn if I can return to the ranks next turn.
After boarding against whip decks I take out all the creatures bar the 4 Seeker of the Ways and go to spot removal/board wipe value town and just try to out grind the grindy decks. Saving Utter Ends for whips and spot removal for what ever is necessary. Sticking a turn 2 seeker then just exiling or killing whatever gets in the way is fantastic as you just build up a huge life advantage and you have Resolute Archangel to help you tick over if you get hit by a nasty counter.
The reason I'm not running Caves of Koilos is due to my card drawing spells. I like having plentiful card draw and it's just about offset at the moment by the life lands and the Seeker of the Way and I feel that adding more pain would be a step backwards.
Obviosuly Sorin, Solemn Visitor is a card I can look at for the mb but I actually like where it is just now, my main gripe is my sb. I'm interested in trying to have a transformational control style sb but for the life of me cannot think of what to put in here. I am also open to FRF additions although I will be running this in some standard dailies this week before FRF drops.
The Mana Tithes are a bit cute, I agree on that point. They'll be the first thing to go when I put a bit more money into the list. Probably going to be a mix of Thoughtseize and Fatal Push.
I've yet to use Slaughter the Strong in a game, and you're probably correct about just swapping it out for a real wrath, the 3 cmc cost attracted me though!
With regards to Midnight Haunting I feel pretty strongly that the flying is more relevant than vigilance, Virtue gives vigilance and the evasion is the best way to get in damage. That said the Finish side of Start // Finish seems like it could be more useful, I'll maybe try out a 3/2 split of the two of them. I feel like at least some number of Midnight Haunting is needed.
With the manabase what would you swap out some shocks for? More basics, a Fetid Heath or two or another vault and the 4th Ghost Quarter?
Thanks for your points! Originally I had much more planeswalkers, in the form of another Gideon and 2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad but that was far too many!
4 Path to Exile
2 Anguished Unmaking
3 Mana Tithe (feel's so good catching a turn 3 Karn with one of these...)
Tokens
4 Bitterblossom
4 Midnight Haunting
1 Legion's Landing
4 Lingering Souls
1 Start // Finish
Anthems
4 Intangible Virtue
Discard
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Land
4 Marsh Flats
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Concealed Courtyard
3 Isolated Chapel
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
2 Sundering Growth
2 Stony Silence
2 Extirpate
3 Damping Sphere
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Slaughter the Strong
1 Runed Halo
I run the 3 Damping Sphere because Tron is a nightmare match up. I play exclusively online and there are some budget considerations at the moment (I'll get more Thoughtseizes when I next get paid for exmple, probably going 3/2 split with IoK) and I could probably do with some Fatal Pushes (maybe replacing Mana Tithe).
When you get the right draw with this deck everything just feels so good. Tilting Tron players with Mana Tithe, Damping Sphere, and Stony Silence out of the board is just the best. I've also beaten Elves and Storm off the back of Damping Sphere. I think this list is leaning towards the control builds but there's enough token producers to turn up the heat when required. Sorin, Solemn Visitor has been one of my fabourites since KtK Standard and I'm probably always going to run at least 3 of them, the life gain is almost never irrelevant.
Midnight Haunting has been phenomenal, turn 3 holding up removal or 2 evasive tokens into a turn 4 Sorin or Virtue + something is usually a back breaking move, it just provides so much flexibility.
Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm looking for advice!
The list I'm going to try this month for 3 leagues is:
3 Lone Missionary
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Wall of Omens
3 Flickerwisp
3 Renegade Rallier
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
3 Sun Titan
Spells:
4 Path to Exile
3 Evolutionary Leap
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Wrath of God
4 Canopy Vista
4 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
2 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarter
6 Plains
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Rule of Law
2 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Stony Silence
1 Back to Nature
1 Forest
1 Blessed Alliance
With Oath my biggest issue was cycling away wraths to the bottom of my deck, I was contemplating a wrath on a stick to counter that, maybe Cataclysmic Gearhulk but it just seems... Bad. The only other one I can think of is Magus of the Disk which seems even weaker.
I've budgeted 3 MTGO friendly leagues for December in which I'll be running GW Emeria, I'll let everyone know how I get on and which build I went for.
4x Lone Missionary
4x Sylvan Ranger
3x Elvish Visionary
3x Wall of Omens
3x Flickerwisp
2x Restoration Angel
1x Primeval Titan
3x Sun Titan
Spells:
4x Path to Exile
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Wrath of God
1x Day of Judgment (Surgical extraction is a thing)
2x Nissa, Vital Force
Land:
3x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Canopy Vista
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
2x Flooded Strand
7x Plains
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Rule of Law
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Stony Silence
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Seal of Primordium
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Back to Nature
1x Forest
I know you guys are less keen on the GW variety, and its probably incorrect to not run Renegade Rallier at all, but I found when using it that in the games it was good I was already far ahead, and when I was behind it was a miserable. Nissa has been exceptional, a real game winner when she drops, animating a land or getting back a permanent to be recast is super useful.
Does anyone have any helpful advice to make this more competitive. I ran the "stock" GW Rallier Emeria build through an MTGO league and just got absolutely wrecked so I'm experimenting!
Edit: Does anyone have any thoughts about Bishop of Rebirth as potential Sun Titan's 5-8?
Edit 2: Super corner case I know, but Wheel of Sun and Moon targeting yourself against a mill deck is absolutely hilarious.
3x Encroaching Wastes
3x Ghost Quarter
12x Mountain
but to go R/W I would just replace some of the basics.
Nahiri, is a great shout and would make a great deal of sense in the mainboard but I'm unsure what to cut for her. Some testing required here I believe!
The deck uses Trash for Treasure to get either a Sundering Titan or a Combustible Gearhulk out on turn 3 or a Salvage Titans natural ability to escape from the hand on turn 2.
I'm not totally sold on the manabase yet, I feel like it needs the most tweaking of all things. I very rarely don't have the colours required to cast spells I just think the utility lands could provide a bit more utility.
The ideal "god hand" would land a turn 3 Gearhulk flipping 3 Sundering Titans into our graveyard and hitting the opponent for 24. Magical Christmas land as I believe the expression goes.
4x Sundering Titan
4x Salvage Titan
4x Combustible Gearhulk
Artifacts
4x Chromatic Star
4x Implement of Combustion
4x Terrarion
Spells
4x Faithless Looting
3x Tormenting Voice
4x Trash for Treasure
3x Anger of the Gods
11x Mountain
3x Buried Ruin
4x Foundry of the Consuls
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Rogue's Passage
3x Filigree Familiar
3x Crumble to Dust
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Vandalblast
1x Pyroclasm
EDIT: typo prevented 2x Rogue's Passage showing up in the deck. I thought it looked a little land light.
4 Kor Firewalker
2 Scourge Wolf
4 Flickerwisp
3 Glimmerpoint Stag
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
Non-Creatures
1 Path to Exile
3 Cloudshift
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Helix
4 Sundial of the Infinite
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Needle Spires
1 Slayer's Stronghold
7 Plains
6 Mountains
3 Path to Exile
2 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
2 Rule of Law
2 Pyroclasm
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Pithing Needle
Deflecting Palm has been awesome, absolutely amazing, it's a free win against infect. And Akroma is awesome, blink her for the surprise beats is epic. The Sundial combo always gets people in game 1 and then it normally gets taken out for whatever hate cards are most required. if I'm playing colours that have poor artefact removal it does stay in.
I'm on a little bit of a budget so some sensible advice would be great (I can't afford Magus of the Moon or Blood moon, nor can I afford fetches).
Thread here
4x Warden of the First Tree
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Rakshasa Deathdealer
3x Merciless Executioner
2x Destructor Dragon
2x Noxious Dragon
4x Hooting Mandrills
3x Bile Blight
3x Hero's Downfall
Sorceries:
3x Commune with the Gods
3x Bitter Revelation
Enchantments:
2x Palace Siege
4x Jungle Hollow
4x Llanowar Wastes
8x Swamp
7x Forest
Price: 53.64$ TCG Player low...
could be godawful (probably is), but it's different.
The drown's are a meta call, this deck sucks against Hornet Queen and I have no issues wiping my own board to remove a queen and her spawn if I can return to the ranks next turn.
After boarding against whip decks I take out all the creatures bar the 4 Seeker of the Ways and go to spot removal/board wipe value town and just try to out grind the grindy decks. Saving Utter Ends for whips and spot removal for what ever is necessary. Sticking a turn 2 seeker then just exiling or killing whatever gets in the way is fantastic as you just build up a huge life advantage and you have Resolute Archangel to help you tick over if you get hit by a nasty counter.
EDIT: The board as it stands
3x End Hostilities
1x Resolute Archangel
1x Read the Bones
1x Drown in Sorrow
1x Hero's Downfall
3x Silence the Believers
3x Murderous Cut
2x Ashen Rider
Take out all the creatures bring in all the removal
4x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Chief of the Edge
4x Chief of the Scale
4x Seeker of the Way
Planeswalkers:
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Sorceries:
2x Drown in Sorrow
3x Sign in Blood
2x Read the Bones
2x Return to the Ranks
4x Utter End
3x Hero's Downfall
Artifacts:
2x Spear of Heliod
Land:
6x Swamp
5x Plains
4x Radiant Fountain
4x Temple of Silence
4x Scoured Barrens
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Banishing Light
3x End Hostilities
1x Resolute Archangel
1x Drown in Sorrow
1x Hero's Downfall
2x Silence the Believers
3x Murderous Cut
The reason I'm not running Caves of Koilos is due to my card drawing spells. I like having plentiful card draw and it's just about offset at the moment by the life lands and the Seeker of the Way and I feel that adding more pain would be a step backwards.
Obviosuly Sorin, Solemn Visitor is a card I can look at for the mb but I actually like where it is just now, my main gripe is my sb. I'm interested in trying to have a transformational control style sb but for the life of me cannot think of what to put in here. I am also open to FRF additions although I will be running this in some standard dailies this week before FRF drops.
Thanks for looking