Yeah, that's the route I'm going. Started picking up some of the cards for it today. Doran himself does not seem to exist in my area apparently. Is Noetic Scales worth it? Or is the threat of ETB creatures abusing it too great?
I was also contemplating taking the deck into an Abzan lifegain deck still utilizing the big butts but adding lifelink and the instant win cards Test of Endurance/Felidar Sovereign. Aetherflux Reservoir can also "Death Star" people dead. I think that might be better handled by Oloro though (I run Karlov, so I could just as easily make a few mods to that deck to turn it to Oloro). Think I will just stick with the direction I'm going though.
Wall of Nets is nice but I'm avoiding the Defender cards aside from Tree of Redemption and Tree of Perdition because they have uses aside from being a huge blocker with Doran. The only enabler for them to attack that I run is Assault Formation because if Doran eats removal that doesn't affect combat for me. Brave the Sands is currently in
How does one make it more counter/control resilient? I can only think of City of Solitude, Asceticism, Privileged Position maybe even Heartwood Storyteller. I own City, Storyteller. I guess Gaea's Herald could help but I honestly don't see opponents wasting counters on something like Grizzled Leotau. Perhaps that's a plus for playing big butt vanilla critters? Doran will most likely be the highest priority target.
I need to add more card draw and will have to break down and pick up the broken draw spell Necropotence. Perhaps some boots for Doran? I just don't want the deck becoming a Doran voltron or Abzan goodstuff.dec which is what many lists I've looked at have done.
I might end up getting rid of Mirari's Wake because of the +1/+1 it gives. With an average CMC of 3.03 I don't think I need the mana doubling it grants (however helpful it may be). The buff it grants might interfere with the one sided wraths, Meekstone, or the evasion Behind the Scenes and Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa grant.
So I want to build a new deck with some funds that became available. Still has to be quasi-budget with cards costing around $10. I have many of the more expensive staples so still feel free to suggest any that come to mind. I hope I posted this in the correct forum, phone is on the fritz:
Sek'kuar, Deathkeeper: Goblin tribal. I would roll Wort, Boggart Auntie however, my buddy runs her but has okayed a different tribal general. Sek'kuar adds green which helps with ramp, token gen, pump, and evasion. Sek'kuar himself acts as a boardwipe deterrent keeping my board presence in place. His tokens add to the sacrificial nature of goblins quite nicely. Shattergang Brothers while a goblin requires to be built around rather than head a tribal deck IMO.
Doran, the Siege Tower: big butts control. Stuff like Meekstone, Crackdown, Marble Titan can lock down my opponents power hungry creatures. One sided boardwipes like Retribution of the Meek ruin my opponent's board while leaving mine intact. Behind the Scenes and the WG 2016 Commander partner allow my big butt brethren easy passage. I'm purposely trying to avoid Abzan goodstuff.dec which is easily done with these colors.
Anafenza the Foremost or Ghave, Guru of Spores: Haven't decided on who here but the theme would be +1/+1 counters. Hydras might make an appearance here but nothing close to tribal. Doubling Season will be omitted unfortunately. I know both generals have a target on their heads and I don't plan on running full combo with Ghave if I would choose him.
Last minute idea is spider tribal with Ishkanah, Grafwidow. She doesn't need much explaining, pretty straightforward.
I realize it's been a while but was wondering if this deck is being updated still.
Caustic Caterpillar is worth it. I used it to destroy Ghostly Prison after he already had Propaganda out. That sucked. I tutored for the Caterpillar with GS Zenith and popped it.
So I cooked up a list here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mizzix-combo-test/. Playing solitaire I feel like it's missing something and that something is most likely more rocks. I may have put too much emphasis on burn and the various rituals available to us for infinite mana as a result. I also don't have a whole lot of Fork effects and wonder if I should throw some more in there. I was trying to include several options for Firemind's Foresight in case one gets milled or what have you (like Lightning Bolt and Gut Shot). I decided not to use Polymorph or any of it's variants but I'd like some opinions if anyone is willing to help. Especially in terms of direction and streamlining lol.
My Talrand deck atm feels like it was more tuned, but that's because I knew what I was doing and he builds himself lol.
Would you recommend token generating spells like Empty the Warrens and/or Goblin Offensive? If so what are the best ones? I do own a Purphoros deck that runs many of them. Rite of Replication can be a great include. I do plan on using the "Recoup" suite to recur spells from the gy which can make them much more potent. But this route does take away from the Critter token generators and would also make the deck more built around tokens.
As far as polymorph goes... there's Polymorph, Mass Polymorph, and Proteus Staff; am I missing any? The latter doesn't synergize with Mizzix' ability but can be used either to prevent theft of Mizzix (by tucking her and sending her to the command zone) or just once or more per turn thanks to Reality Spasm. The staff is also tutorable via Fabricate so that's a plus.
* Budget for me is less than $15 unless it's completely relevant to the strategy. So not super restrictive. Meta has no such limits.
* I do like the idea of token producers but only if it's synergistic. Empty the Warrens does have potential though due to storm. Guttersnipe seems like a good choice. I suppose these sorts of cards would be best with storm?
* My worries with polymorph and Mizzix is that the token producers aren't guaranteed. Talrand works bc the general makes the tokens. I think it would take more setup with Mizzix to abuse it to any degree unless you focus on token spells.
* My meta is creature heavy with a degree of control.
So I have a mass bounce, Talrand deck that would make cantrip enthusiasts proud. I utilize polymorph effects (like Proteus Staff) to tuck drakes to whip out one of the 5-6 big bombs in the deck for free (Guile, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Tidespout Tyrant, and Stormtide Leviathan). I've had success with it in my meta forcing them to scoop from the several chains of mass bounce (Devastation tide followed by a polymorphed Stormtide Leviathan, followed by a Scourge of Fleets... you get the point). Anywho, I'm wondering if I should convert my Talrand list into a Mizzix deck. I really don't see why I shouldn't and I've come to the following conclusions:
Both Mizzix and Talrand rely heavily on them being in play to benefit.
Aside from scooping, wincons with Talrand are lackluster. Pinging opponents with 2/2 fliers isn't the best method of winning.
Mizzix has access to R and can combo out rather easily.
Both are budget friendly.
Both are very susceptible to hate.
Both cost 4 CMC
Talrand could easily convert to a Mizzix deck.
My concerns are that well, I'm new to Izzet colors and don't know which way to build her. I've seen storm, combo, and battle cruiser-mana battery type builds. I just don't know what builds are viable and was hoping you could help this fledgling out. I like the synergy of the token producers like Talrand, Young Pyromancer, and Metallurgic Summonings since my meta is creature heavy. Or good ole Guttersnipe, who when combined with Storm can be devastating. However, I'm also a fan of mass bounce, which could work just as if not more effectively than chump blockers. Budget is a concern but I do own some of the more expensive staples in these colors (i.e. Wheel of fortune, ect.) but I can proxy and acquire the rest in due time. Or do you think I should just stick to Talrand?
Oh, I haven't read through all the pages yet of this thread, but are there budget alternatives to cards like Intuition and others? Is it still viable using the cheaper rocks?
How's Horobi doing nowadays? I know you wanted a reusable Sudden Spoiling but the closest I can think of is Sorceress Queen but she only affects one creature. Oh, and if you want another Karn, Silver Golem effect, there's always Xenic Poltergeist. He can only do it once a turn though due to tapping. Still, combos nicely with Liquimetal Coating
Thanks broseph! I've grown attached to the little extort critters. They're cheap and can trigger Karlov multiple times. They won't stop much but Tithe Drinker at least has lifelink. Their downside is that they are mana hungry and so is Karlov. Hence why I don't run Serene Steward, Underworld Coinsmith, or Cradle of Vitality. How has Unspeakable Symbol worked for you? I've contemplated it but don't know if I can find a spot. I think the only thing I need now is the ability to recur things like with Sun Titan. My deck is on tappedout:
Hellgrammite, do you happen to have a deck list for Karlov? I too have play tested Karlov and came to many of the same conclusions. He can knock out an opponent if they don't set out a blocker within the first few turns, I managed that on T4 thanks to a T1 Soul Warden. He needs reliable triggers. Lifelink helps, so does extort. He needs protection and plenty of it. And evasion is huge.
I pretty much only had Mother of Runes in my deck and after a few turns you just durdle, grow fat and exile. This makes him an even bigger target as everyone starts staring at the 46/46 on the board that still gets chump blocked. Since then I added more evasion/protection in the form of auras and equipments. The auras, namely Unquestioned Authority/Pentarch Ward/Eternal Thirst, have a dual purpose or synergize well so they aren't a total waste if destroyed.
Also Divine Reckoning is another wrath that can destroy everything else and leave Karlov up. You can then exile whatever is left over.
Wall of Nets is nice but I'm avoiding the Defender cards aside from Tree of Redemption and Tree of Perdition because they have uses aside from being a huge blocker with Doran. The only enabler for them to attack that I run is Assault Formation because if Doran eats removal that doesn't affect combat for me. Brave the Sands is currently in
How does one make it more counter/control resilient? I can only think of City of Solitude, Asceticism, Privileged Position maybe even Heartwood Storyteller. I own City, Storyteller. I guess Gaea's Herald could help but I honestly don't see opponents wasting counters on something like Grizzled Leotau. Perhaps that's a plus for playing big butt vanilla critters? Doran will most likely be the highest priority target.
I need to add more card draw and will have to break down and pick up the broken draw spell Necropotence. Perhaps some boots for Doran? I just don't want the deck becoming a Doran voltron or Abzan goodstuff.dec which is what many lists I've looked at have done.
I might end up getting rid of Mirari's Wake because of the +1/+1 it gives. With an average CMC of 3.03 I don't think I need the mana doubling it grants (however helpful it may be). The buff it grants might interfere with the one sided wraths, Meekstone, or the evasion Behind the Scenes and Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa grant.
Sek'kuar, Deathkeeper: Goblin tribal. I would roll Wort, Boggart Auntie however, my buddy runs her but has okayed a different tribal general. Sek'kuar adds green which helps with ramp, token gen, pump, and evasion. Sek'kuar himself acts as a boardwipe deterrent keeping my board presence in place. His tokens add to the sacrificial nature of goblins quite nicely. Shattergang Brothers while a goblin requires to be built around rather than head a tribal deck IMO.
Doran, the Siege Tower: big butts control. Stuff like Meekstone, Crackdown, Marble Titan can lock down my opponents power hungry creatures. One sided boardwipes like Retribution of the Meek ruin my opponent's board while leaving mine intact. Behind the Scenes and the WG 2016 Commander partner allow my big butt brethren easy passage. I'm purposely trying to avoid Abzan goodstuff.dec which is easily done with these colors.
Anafenza the Foremost or Ghave, Guru of Spores: Haven't decided on who here but the theme would be +1/+1 counters. Hydras might make an appearance here but nothing close to tribal. Doubling Season will be omitted unfortunately. I know both generals have a target on their heads and I don't plan on running full combo with Ghave if I would choose him.
Last minute idea is spider tribal with Ishkanah, Grafwidow. She doesn't need much explaining, pretty straightforward.
Unfortunately, this means your Forests have summoning sickness.
Caustic Caterpillar is worth it. I used it to destroy Ghostly Prison after he already had Propaganda out. That sucked. I tutored for the Caterpillar with GS Zenith and popped it.
Another option: Waterfront Bouncer or Crystal Shard to bounce Eternal Witness numerous times.
My Talrand deck atm feels like it was more tuned, but that's because I knew what I was doing and he builds himself lol.
As far as polymorph goes... there's Polymorph, Mass Polymorph, and Proteus Staff; am I missing any? The latter doesn't synergize with Mizzix' ability but can be used either to prevent theft of Mizzix (by tucking her and sending her to the command zone) or just once or more per turn thanks to Reality Spasm. The staff is also tutorable via Fabricate so that's a plus.
So what bombs if any should I include? There's Tidespout Tyrant, Stormtide Leviathan, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Guile, and Scourge of Fleets. I'm not well versed in red bombs, Perhaps Stalking Vengeance? Obviously don't want to include them all to keep critter count down.
* Windreader Sphinx is the one you're thinking of. I also run him.
* Budget for me is less than $15 unless it's completely relevant to the strategy. So not super restrictive. Meta has no such limits.
* I do like the idea of token producers but only if it's synergistic. Empty the Warrens does have potential though due to storm. Guttersnipe seems like a good choice. I suppose these sorts of cards would be best with storm?
* My worries with polymorph and Mizzix is that the token producers aren't guaranteed. Talrand works bc the general makes the tokens. I think it would take more setup with Mizzix to abuse it to any degree unless you focus on token spells.
* My meta is creature heavy with a degree of control.
My concerns are that well, I'm new to Izzet colors and don't know which way to build her. I've seen storm, combo, and battle cruiser-mana battery type builds. I just don't know what builds are viable and was hoping you could help this fledgling out. I like the synergy of the token producers like Talrand, Young Pyromancer, and Metallurgic Summonings since my meta is creature heavy. Or good ole Guttersnipe, who when combined with Storm can be devastating. However, I'm also a fan of mass bounce, which could work just as if not more effectively than chump blockers. Budget is a concern but I do own some of the more expensive staples in these colors (i.e. Wheel of fortune, ect.) but I can proxy and acquire the rest in due time. Or do you think I should just stick to Talrand?
Oh, I haven't read through all the pages yet of this thread, but are there budget alternatives to cards like Intuition and others? Is it still viable using the cheaper rocks?
Talrand Deck:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/drakes-drakes-and-drakes-oh-my/
Mindslicer is a great rattlesnake.
Dark Deal: Hand disruption that creates a disadvantage.
Not sure about the following but they might be useful here.
Liliana's Caress/Megrim: Used these with Nekusar
Necrogen Mists: Discard for everyone.
Don't know if you want to add some sort of recursion for the times Shirei eats removal. Like something that can recur itself (bloodghast, reassembling skeleton, ect.) or something like phyrexian reclamation
Tappedout.net/mtg-decks/uncle-karls-fun-house/#c2424278
Edit: Somehow I missed that Eternal Thirst didn't give flying like I thought it did heh, so that leaves a spot free.
I pretty much only had Mother of Runes in my deck and after a few turns you just durdle, grow fat and exile. This makes him an even bigger target as everyone starts staring at the 46/46 on the board that still gets chump blocked. Since then I added more evasion/protection in the form of auras and equipments. The auras, namely Unquestioned Authority/Pentarch Ward/Eternal Thirst, have a dual purpose or synergize well so they aren't a total waste if destroyed.
Also Divine Reckoning is another wrath that can destroy everything else and leave Karlov up. You can then exile whatever is left over.