I came here for the experimental frenzy. It seems like we maiby could support 4xexperimental frenzy. Hear me out.
We would need to press the manacurve low to use Frenzy. Iquesition is good. Push and bolt are good. Thoughtsieze might be a nessaserry evil. Nihil spellbomb is a cantrip that is in the table.
Two drops are goyf, Grim flayers has synergy with Frenzy in the yeard and good for remowing lands. Oozes for lifegain. Bob is very bad with frenzy. Collective brutalaty is good with frenzy as we often will have dead cards in hand.
3 drops are plentyfull to choose from. Tierless tracker is good, and clues can remove land from the topp of the deck. (Although we can not use the card.) Lily last hope can self mill, but stoos there. Lily veil is good as we do not need thr hand. She and c brutalaty will be good for getting delerium.
Kologans commamd might be bad. Ravens crime could be supricingly good as a 'brick' will often strand us with land cards in hand.
Horizon canopy can help filter our draw. The same with field of ruin, or any spare fetchland. (Just like tod stevens valuetown.) Sugestions for better cards are welcome.
I don't play it in BGx but in BG.. it happens sometimes that the game ends with 1 or 0 lands for my opponent, if he has a greedy manabase with less basics.. even the basics get GQ'd away.. Tec Edge was also great against lot of decks.. it's not hard to cut your opp off of a color with this deck..
I would never leave home without my Bobs.. I think that he is criminally underplayed.. in my deck he is an all star.. in grindy games, Bob and Tracker made me draw half of my deck..
fast aggro decks can be a problem, it is very important to have 1 removal spell and Bob in you starting hand so he can let you draw your removal fast enough.. if you manage to take over until turn 5 I think you can not lose anymore..
If you end most games with your opponent on few or no lands, that is interesting. I just find it very contra intuetive that your deck suddenly is a land destruction deck with the inclusion of assassins thropy. So you are first gonne flodd them out, and then lategame kill them with grinding out their lands. It sounds very bad. That being said, Todd Stevens Valuetown decks that run Azusa, and ramunamp escavator can play 3 ghost quarters a turn and destroy your opponents mana. LftL is teqnicaly the same, but much slowe. I find it baffeling. Just adding LftL seems bad, but I am happy you are having results with it. When people like FlyingDelver try to defend LftL as a good card and cites cycling lands as a stock awnser, when the deck does not run any cycling landsJust seems wrong.
Also XOPYC you say you think BoB is underplayed. This is not true. Reid Duke had advocated this card long before BBE got unbanned. And the claim that they are never bad leads me to belive that your local meta has very little agro in it. GB with bobs vas burn is a horrible matchups. Post board they need to draw relic and nulefy your goyf and you are way behind. Combined with you having 6 posts, and claiming you often end up vs an opponent withouth lands in play speaks volumes about what decks you often meet in your meta. For that meta it makes great sence to play with card draw like BoB and grindy cards like LftL, but I am very sceptical to a better representative meta with more diversaty.
Mind you, I do not mind it as critique, but I think it is not universaly good. I am a big fan of LftL though, I just wish it was better in the deck.
XOPIC what does the life from the loam do? Ravens crime is a one of. You have some sac lands, are that was it os there for? Dredging to fuel the gravyeard? I am confused.
Hqve you tested with collective brutalaty to get it into the gravyeard? Also scales well with fueling the brutalaty.
Secrets of the maeusoleum also works well in that shell and allows you to find ravens crime.
What do you think about 24 vs 25 lands in Tracker's BG Rock (without Dark Confidant)?
I've been testing this list quite a bit and really like it so far but I have one problem which is mentioned above. On the one hand I feel 25 along with Tracker is where you want to be with this list but on the other side I'm flooded quite a bit. This is fine if you have Tracker in the play since he will turn lands into new cards and grow himself while doing this but it becomes really bad if you don't. 25 lands is a lot and if you play it you probably have to accept that you are more likely to flood than most other decks but it still feels bad and frustrating when it happens. It's even more evident when you're at top deck mode and need to draw something (either a threat or an answer to opponent's threat. At this you're more likely to draw a land than your opponent most of the time which doesn't feel good.
With Tracker in play (some) lands are good and playing more of them will make him better. I still feel that I drew more of them than I want even with Tracker in the play. Sometimes I just keep drawing lands into lands. If these are creature lands and I don't need anything specific (like removal) this might still be ok but otherwise it might not be enough even with Tracker.
Todd Stevens did a deck with 2 courser of chruphix and 2 ooze as lifegain. 3 or 4 dark confidant and 4 trackers. 25 lands.
Courser and dark confidant has some synergy and some unsynergy. (You are garanteed getting damage.)
Courser and Tracker both like 25 lands. Courser is GREAT with grim flayer. Both in the gravyeard and on the battlefield.
If you need 'more' trackers you can play traverse to get them.
Today I took out the dark confidants. They are good but they wanne winn fast, and tracker wanne winn late. So after 4 trackers I added 3 grim flayers and 2 coursers of khrpohix for some card advantage. Let me tell you having courser and grim flayer in play at the same time fels just great.
If you are looking for reasons to go white I would recomend the sorrins. In particular the sojourner. His +1 that grants lifelink is good. Making flying vampiers is bothersom enough.
But then maiby we could just play a random whip of erebos. Anubody who played theroes standar know how lifelink is the king of fair fights.
Wait, what? When is teeg and kambal houses in modern? This is not commander.
Reid dukes earlier take om abzan was 3 lingering souls and liliana of the veil to discard them. Only other white card was stony in sideboard. Also shambling vents was a nice lifegain.
How are people on mausoleum secrets (or what it is called) It seems more versatile then traverse.
Both cards are obviusly better with tracker. And it's real home is in death shadow, ptobably grixis. (Anything that can magic up some death shadows is good.) But for 3 mana it can find and cast removal or discard. Grim flayers and or bobs. Perhaps that one of kalitas or flayers tendrils. I also like that it is instant speed.
But as usual ny instincy is to relly to much upon the gravyeard.
Thabks for the awnsers. IMHO jund runs goyf, bob, ooze and bbe. Jund does not need or have the room for tracker. Instead they run k commamd and walkers as their 3 drops. K command also functions as a versatile catch all, tempo and card advantahe. There Bob makes a lot of sence because you are also running the tempo angle with bolts and bbe. Tracker, while good, is very hard to fit in that deck.
But I have not been a fan of bob in abzan and/or rock. Both of these decks have an inheret grindyness to them that bob jeperdice every time you run into some form of agro. Against burn for instance you do not want to see bob. (I find burn quite challenging with BGx. Post bord they often run relics that hurt our abilaty tonapply preasure even more.) Also the draws that contain shock lands + thoughtsieze + bob are just brutal. Even celestial colonad decks enjoy us going low on life.
Instead I want to make a deck with 3(!) thoughtsiezes instead of 2, along 4 inquesitions. The deck probably needs some grim flayers to get consistent 2 drops. (Yes that means some baubles or spellbombs.) And to topp it off we need some grindy card draw. But 4 tierless tracker feels to little. The deck would need 6 or 7 card advantage engines. (And I am not just talking about how tarmagoyf trades into smaller creatures.)
Traditionally such a grindy aproach has been terrible vs UW controll and Tron. Also GB are very dependent upon the graveyeard. (A post board rest in pice really hurt us). But 4 assassassins throphy will help with all of this. (Mayby you run malestorm pulse.) Our agro match ups gets much better. And we might be abel to grind to an insane amaunt. (In old extended I have volraths stronghold + eternal witness that made insane grinds. I miss the good old days.)
What non dark confidant does people run for card advantage? I do not like the 'race' part of dark c. With assa t. we have much better staying power. Are tasigurs back in style? Are there anu other card advantages I am missing? Lilliana the last hope? Grim flayers for selection?
I am not so sure. A good opponent would also skip the same amounts of turns. You need something that skips them being able to take that action. If there is 3rd opponent who does not skipp he will just get second place.
The most likly senario is you end up with people teying to skip 1 or 2 turns more or less then the others to not die to mill but get a good sett up triggering more responses. Tye game would end in a tie as the stack would never start to resolve.
You want Brawn and Anger. If you have Urborg you also need Filth. (Consider blacket of Night as well.)
The hydra also needs some help, so perhaps Rancor or Sword of Feast and Famie.
One of the big problems is finding good creatures to reanimate. Grave Titan might be good. Acidic Slime and Terastodon could be fine. Bane of Progress. Avenger of Zendikar. Rune Scarred-Demon.
Purfuros, God of the Forge could ne nice. Nylea God of the Hunt is another trample enabler. Shinen of Life's Roar is good, as would other lure creatures.
You could have Panharmonicon if you go the ETB road. Things that give you adisional combqt phases could also be good.
We would need to press the manacurve low to use Frenzy. Iquesition is good. Push and bolt are good. Thoughtsieze might be a nessaserry evil. Nihil spellbomb is a cantrip that is in the table.
Two drops are goyf, Grim flayers has synergy with Frenzy in the yeard and good for remowing lands. Oozes for lifegain. Bob is very bad with frenzy. Collective brutalaty is good with frenzy as we often will have dead cards in hand.
3 drops are plentyfull to choose from. Tierless tracker is good, and clues can remove land from the topp of the deck. (Although we can not use the card.) Lily last hope can self mill, but stoos there. Lily veil is good as we do not need thr hand. She and c brutalaty will be good for getting delerium.
Kologans commamd might be bad. Ravens crime could be supricingly good as a 'brick' will often strand us with land cards in hand.
Horizon canopy can help filter our draw. The same with field of ruin, or any spare fetchland. (Just like tod stevens valuetown.) Sugestions for better cards are welcome.
If you end most games with your opponent on few or no lands, that is interesting. I just find it very contra intuetive that your deck suddenly is a land destruction deck with the inclusion of assassins thropy. So you are first gonne flodd them out, and then lategame kill them with grinding out their lands. It sounds very bad. That being said, Todd Stevens Valuetown decks that run Azusa, and ramunamp escavator can play 3 ghost quarters a turn and destroy your opponents mana. LftL is teqnicaly the same, but much slowe. I find it baffeling. Just adding LftL seems bad, but I am happy you are having results with it. When people like FlyingDelver try to defend LftL as a good card and cites cycling lands as a stock awnser, when the deck does not run any cycling landsJust seems wrong.
Also XOPYC you say you think BoB is underplayed. This is not true. Reid Duke had advocated this card long before BBE got unbanned. And the claim that they are never bad leads me to belive that your local meta has very little agro in it. GB with bobs vas burn is a horrible matchups. Post board they need to draw relic and nulefy your goyf and you are way behind. Combined with you having 6 posts, and claiming you often end up vs an opponent withouth lands in play speaks volumes about what decks you often meet in your meta. For that meta it makes great sence to play with card draw like BoB and grindy cards like LftL, but I am very sceptical to a better representative meta with more diversaty.
Mind you, I do not mind it as critique, but I think it is not universaly good. I am a big fan of LftL though, I just wish it was better in the deck.
Hqve you tested with collective brutalaty to get it into the gravyeard? Also scales well with fueling the brutalaty.
Secrets of the maeusoleum also works well in that shell and allows you to find ravens crime.
Todd Stevens did a deck with 2 courser of chruphix and 2 ooze as lifegain. 3 or 4 dark confidant and 4 trackers. 25 lands.
Courser and dark confidant has some synergy and some unsynergy. (You are garanteed getting damage.)
Courser and Tracker both like 25 lands. Courser is GREAT with grim flayer. Both in the gravyeard and on the battlefield.
If you need 'more' trackers you can play traverse to get them.
PS: Has any body tryed whip of erebos?
Also, good gravyeard synergi.
But then maiby we could just play a random whip of erebos. Anubody who played theroes standar know how lifelink is the king of fair fights.
With throphy on 2, perhaps that frees up k command on 3? Perhaps we do not need as many lilianas and or m pulse?
Reid dukes earlier take om abzan was 3 lingering souls and liliana of the veil to discard them. Only other white card was stony in sideboard. Also shambling vents was a nice lifegain.
Both cards are obviusly better with tracker. And it's real home is in death shadow, ptobably grixis. (Anything that can magic up some death shadows is good.) But for 3 mana it can find and cast removal or discard. Grim flayers and or bobs. Perhaps that one of kalitas or flayers tendrils. I also like that it is instant speed.
But as usual ny instincy is to relly to much upon the gravyeard.
But I have not been a fan of bob in abzan and/or rock. Both of these decks have an inheret grindyness to them that bob jeperdice every time you run into some form of agro. Against burn for instance you do not want to see bob. (I find burn quite challenging with BGx. Post bord they often run relics that hurt our abilaty tonapply preasure even more.) Also the draws that contain shock lands + thoughtsieze + bob are just brutal. Even celestial colonad decks enjoy us going low on life.
Instead I want to make a deck with 3(!) thoughtsiezes instead of 2, along 4 inquesitions. The deck probably needs some grim flayers to get consistent 2 drops. (Yes that means some baubles or spellbombs.) And to topp it off we need some grindy card draw. But 4 tierless tracker feels to little. The deck would need 6 or 7 card advantage engines. (And I am not just talking about how tarmagoyf trades into smaller creatures.)
Traditionally such a grindy aproach has been terrible vs UW controll and Tron. Also GB are very dependent upon the graveyeard. (A post board rest in pice really hurt us). But 4 assassassins throphy will help with all of this. (Mayby you run malestorm pulse.) Our agro match ups gets much better. And we might be abel to grind to an insane amaunt. (In old extended I have volraths stronghold + eternal witness that made insane grinds. I miss the good old days.)
Thoughts?
I am not so sure. A good opponent would also skip the same amounts of turns. You need something that skips them being able to take that action. If there is 3rd opponent who does not skipp he will just get second place.
The most likly senario is you end up with people teying to skip 1 or 2 turns more or less then the others to not die to mill but get a good sett up triggering more responses. Tye game would end in a tie as the stack would never start to resolve.
Pair it with krosam grip.
Also, what was the question? I found it a bit unclear.
The hydra also needs some help, so perhaps Rancor or Sword of Feast and Famie.
One of the big problems is finding good creatures to reanimate. Grave Titan might be good. Acidic Slime and Terastodon could be fine. Bane of Progress. Avenger of Zendikar. Rune Scarred-Demon.
Purfuros, God of the Forge could ne nice. Nylea God of the Hunt is another trample enabler. Shinen of Life's Roar is good, as would other lure creatures.
You could have Panharmonicon if you go the ETB road. Things that give you adisional combqt phases could also be good.