One good thing might be creatures with an "on attack" trigger:
Well, Etali, Primal Storm would probably love the Haste that Garna gives.
Hasty Combat Celebrant might also give your opponents a nasty surprise.
{card]Tilonalli's Summoner[/card] is the last card that seems to have a powerfull on attack trigger without having natural haste.
Not playing Sram's Expertise in here should be a punishable offense: it gives you three bodies to tap for mana and allows you to play your Inspiring Statuary for free. I'm already getting giddy at the idea of possible dropping a Matter Reshaper or Eternal Scourge off of it.
Shardless Agent: heck of a card, but what is it specifically going to do here? The best thing it can find is a Assault Formation if I'm not mistaken, the worst it just plays a wall and draws a card. Might I suggest you change this to the best "Propaganda" effect on the market: Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Jace, Architect of Thought: his plus ability gives everything that attacks -1/-0, not just attacks you, blunting any attack that might have gone another way, possibly invalidating all cards that could "force the issue". Heckling Fiends: This card feels so.... not efficient. Academy rector: she only finds Assault Formation? Is this not better as Enlightened Tutor or Idyllic Tutor?
Forcing the issue: Avatar of Slaughter is expensive, but it forces a game like nothing else. Grenzo, Havoc Raiser and Jeering Homunculus (fits with the high toughness theme) are great ways to force an opponent to attack AND to divert them from you. Dulcet Sirens is even more direct in forcing attacks. Goblin Spymaster also forces your opponents to attack and gives them creatures to do so with. Oracle en-Vec can make your opponents promise to attack or not to attack with cards and create some very interesting combat steps. Illusionist's Gambit and Domineering Will: you dare attack me? Bitter Feud: you guys now hate each other.... have at it.
When I first read the lines of text on Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist I was immediately reminded of Edric. Spymaster of Trest: a creature that offers my opponents advantage if only they leave me alone and focus on my opponents. This sparked the idea of this deck: why not build a deck that focuses on making my opponents kill each other. In fact, why not FORCE them to kill each other, roman gladiator style.
While I can't speak for Viroid, my goldfishing with their build suggests that the specific combat interactions of the wolf/spirits was part of the durdling plan (as would be the counterspells). Which I assume is why some of the other flash creatures were left out.
The wolf spirits are indeed intended as a part of the 'durdling' plan: they act as pseudo removal in the early game ambushing smaller creatures and as threats in the mid game when you are able to present them the choice between counterspell or threat. The general plan is the standard tempo plan of sticking a threat and protecting it.
The main problem is that without Rashmi the deck has trouble competing - which is why I suggested the 'walkers. Which means relying of Rashmi to hope to get instant speed out of non-instants and such tricks is so inconsistent as to be a handicap. More likely to have a non-instant stuck in your hand then cast off Rashmi. (I tried an unrelated Rashmi/Brain in a Jar deck, but I couldn't get anywhere with it).
I agree that there is a problem to contend with the big dogs. Once they slip something like gideon into play or anything else which creates incremental advantage it is quite difficult to catch up. The big question is: how do we deal with it. Perhaps via Engulf the Shore? Or by adding black fro -2/-2 sweepers? Or with red instant removal?
A secondary problem I experienced with the OP deck was that there frequently isn't enough to do on the first 3 turns. That the lack of early plays means frequently doing nothing on 2 of the first 3 turns. Yes, I assume hitting a Copter with Negate feels great, but it isn't as likely as it seems.
I tried to alleviate this problem with Duskwatch Recruiter, but it seems that some more action is required here. What would we want here? Lambholt Pacifist and Kessig Prowler can be used to create some early protection or pressure, respectively, and mantain a bit of the werewolf interaction. Otherwise copters of our own are still a possibility...
I was looking for a way to make use of Rashmi, Eternities Crafter in standard. To this end I started searching for cards with flash, since that is the best way to utilize Rashmi: playing at the opponents end step. To my surprise there are two green spirit wolves with flash which combine nicely with Rattlechains and Nebelghast Herald.
The general idea is to play a tempo game at the end of the opponents turn until you can land a Rashmi, Eternities Crafter and can protect her a bit. The deck is probably a bit cute at the moment with no reliable removal outside of the counters, but I am curious if people can offer some advice to make this type of deck playable.
I might be a little too deep into the discard aspect, but depending on the match up I can switch out the discard for removal or threats in my to-be-determined sideboard.
Game 1 vs G/R Ramp/delirium 2-0 win
First game I was able to beat him down before he was able to amount anything truly scary. Game 2 he was screwed with only drawing his Nissa's Pilgrimage and more lands out of his filtering options. Collective Brutality was an MVP in this matchup, eating up his relevant removal and destroying his hedron Crawlers. I sided in the transgress and duress over lightning axe and defiance, but never saw nor needed them.
Game 2 vs mono blue prison 1-2 loss
A truly frustrating match up in which both games seemingly were lost to luck, but was probably the result of superior filtering. Game 1 he drew like a god, landing a first and third turn Prism Ring, buffering his life. After strongly threatening his life on turn 5/6 he was able to find sequential Engulf the Shore for the win.... why is this card an instant :(. Game two I side in my discard and side out my lightning axes. This time hes wasn't able to stimy my advance and a turn 7 melded hanweir garrison/battlements with an active Ambuscade Shaman smashed in for lethal. Game 3 played a lot like game 1. I was able to strip his hand for a Engulf the Shore early with a Collective Brutality but he was able to find 2 others shortly after, making winning impossible
Game 3 vs Jund combos 2-0 Win
A friend of mine who attempted to smash every two card combo in standard in a single deck: Tree of Perdition+Assault Formation+Triskadekaphobia+Demonic Pact+Harmless Offering... just look for the combos
My deck was simply too fast with no real opposition from him. Apparently he made a mistake with his land count which lead to an awkward deck.
game 4 vs UW spirits 1-2 Loss
The salt of the day: Game 1 and 2 were close enough with me winning the first on the back of a 2 for 1 with Collective Brutality and losing game 2 to a well timed Rattlechains into Selfless Spirit for the blowout. Game 3 however saw me drawing nothing but land and all Olivia. Mobilized for war with a two Spell Quellers on his field. Any creature or removal would've been good enough since if one of the quellers died it would take another with them. It wouldn't happen
Game 5 vs RW humans 0-2 loss
Not much to say.... tons of one drops vs not drawing my two drops or removal in a timely matter makes for sad games.
In the future I will probably increase the amount of Ambuscade Shaman and corresponding synergy. The sequence of turn three Hanweir Garrison into turn 4 Ambuscade Shaman (hasted or not) proved to be very strong. I haven't played vs any bant decks for which I played the Lightning Axes, but they were kinda bad in other matchups unless I had a Fiery Temper and two red mana free (which wasn't that often). Will probably cut down to two or one with a same number in the side.
I love the basic plan of the deck, but I think there is room for improvement.
Perhaps adding Hedron Crawler next to the Curious Homunculus will help in the turbo department. Guaranteed turn 3 land destruction sounds good enough.
Imprison in the Moon on a basic land then Crumble to Dust is evil, but right now this move is quite unreliable since you have no way to assemble the combo. Open the Armory and Totem Hartebeest can help in this regard, but some good, old draw spell might do the trick here too. Perhaps you can even take a few hints from the mono-blue prison/prism decks that are performing quite well.
@Ronnie328 Mina and Denn, Wildborn and Molten Vortex are quite good, but both are a tad slow. I was really looking for that one-shot kill and dredge potential. [cadr]Groundskeeper[/card] is not really a card I would be willing to play. I don't think it has a strong enough effect... if it would put it into play however.....
@bwachter70 Thanks, I got a good deal of inspiration from your Splendid Simic thread. Crumbling Vestige is indeed a strong option and will be included in my next version. Retreat to kazandu however I don't feel so good about. It doesn't help me win, it just helps me not lose. At the point the landfall becomes relevant I hope to have already won that game.
Other cards I have been looking at:
Zendikar's Roil: armies of 2/2s after resolving Splendid Reclamation sounds good, but the enchantment is so expensive Sylvan Advocate, Tireless Tracker, jaddi Offshoot: all very viable and propably should be in the 75 somewhere over the current package. Ulvenwald Hydra, Undergrowth Champion: two cards that are currently a bit underutilized, the hydra was in here first but Worldbreaker seemed better. Undergrowth champion might be really good at holding the fort in the early game Damnable Pact might be an interesting black fireball variant to utilize or to keep a combo going.
What I'm also missing is interaction. The deck is a bit HAM at the moment. I'm thinking discard should be important here... Transgress the Mind most probably.
I'm sad... sad that such a wonderful thing as The Gitrog Monster receives no play while everyone and their mother is working to fill their graveyards with black and green cards.
To rectify this I began searching for cards in Eldritch Moon that might interact favorably with the toad and lo and behold, these two gems rolled out:
Bot these cards serve as unlimited discard outlets.... for lands! Which, with The Gitrog Monster will draw you into more cards, hopefully more lands. With our graveyard now hopefully filled with loamy goodness and our hand stocked with other cards the next part can be executed: getting those lands into play again with Splendid Reclamation.
Now, I could flesh the deck out as a standard B/G delirium deck and call it a day, but then why play this silly combo at all. So I opted for a slight different setup:
Thats right, 29 lands. This might be WAY too much, but it's a starting point. The idea is to really be able to optimize on The Gitrog Monster
Retreat to Hagra into Splendid Reclamation feels like a strong play that could sway the game heavily in my favor, especially after some possible beats of my two drops.
Beyond these cards, I jammmed in a small dredge package in the spells and expanded on it with Dark Petition and Seasons Past, though this may be completely wrong.
Well, Etali, Primal Storm would probably love the Haste that Garna gives.
Hasty Combat Celebrant might also give your opponents a nasty surprise.
{card]Tilonalli's Summoner[/card] is the last card that seems to have a powerfull on attack trigger without having natural haste.
Shardless Agent: heck of a card, but what is it specifically going to do here? The best thing it can find is a Assault Formation if I'm not mistaken, the worst it just plays a wall and draws a card. Might I suggest you change this to the best "Propaganda" effect on the market: Edric, Spymaster of Trest.
Jace, Architect of Thought: his plus ability gives everything that attacks -1/-0, not just attacks you, blunting any attack that might have gone another way, possibly invalidating all cards that could "force the issue".
Heckling Fiends: This card feels so.... not efficient.
Academy rector: she only finds Assault Formation? Is this not better as Enlightened Tutor or Idyllic Tutor?
What really jumps out is: what are you going to do vs decks that do no aim to win via combat damage? There are little to no tools to keep combo in check, little to no tools to keep the graveyard in check and little to no tools to combat planeswalkers/enchantments/artifacts. I would look into the "worst" cards that are curently in your deck and remove some of them in favor of cards like: Stonecloaker, Glen Elendra Archmage, Venser, Shaper Savant, Acidic Slime, Bane of Progress, Reclamation Sage, Terastodon, Woodfall Primus, Harmonic Sliver, Mystic Snake, Trygon Predator, Aura of Silence, Council's Judgment, return to Dust, Rest in Peace, Capsize, Mystic Confluence, Swan Song, Chaos Warp, Shattering Spree, vandalblast, Beast Within, Krosan Grip, Song of Dryads, Aura Shards, Bant Charm, Hull Breach...... well, you get the gist I think.
Wall subtheme cards:
Miren, the Moaning Well might be a good addition with all the high toughness creatures running about. Also good against/with mind control effects.
Momentous Fall and Trostani, Selesnya's Voice also fall into this category.
Aether Membrane, wall of Tears: Seems better than some of the other walls you have listed.
Jeskai Barricade: Rebuying Wall of Blossoms or Eternal Witness at instant speed is not the worst thing
Soulsworn Jury: Countering problematic creatures
Stalwart Shield-Bearers: giving two extra damage to each wall you control sounds alright
Sunscape Familiar: discounts half your deck
Tree of Redemption: switch life with the tree, then smack in there for 30+ damage?
Wall of Roots: mana? I don't know on this one
Forcing the issue:
Avatar of Slaughter is expensive, but it forces a game like nothing else.
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser and Jeering Homunculus (fits with the high toughness theme) are great ways to force an opponent to attack AND to divert them from you. Dulcet Sirens is even more direct in forcing attacks.
Goblin Spymaster also forces your opponents to attack and gives them creatures to do so with.
Oracle en-Vec can make your opponents promise to attack or not to attack with cards and create some very interesting combat steps.
Illusionist's Gambit and Domineering Will: you dare attack me?
Bitter Feud: you guys now hate each other.... have at it.
Why Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist? Because politics
When I first read the lines of text on Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist I was immediately reminded of Edric. Spymaster of Trest: a creature that offers my opponents advantage if only they leave me alone and focus on my opponents. This sparked the idea of this deck: why not build a deck that focuses on making my opponents kill each other. In fact, why not FORCE them to kill each other, roman gladiator style.
1 Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist
1 Thrasios, Triton Hero
Creatures
1 Edric. Spymaster of Trest
1 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
1 Broodbirth Viper
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Avatar of Slaughter
1 Goblin Diplomats
1 Goblin Spymaster
1 Warmonger Hellkite
1 Skyline Despot
1 Keeper of Keys
1 Giant Trap Door Spider
1 Kaseto, Orochi Archmage
1 Dulcet Sirens
1 Akroan Horse
1 Humble Defector
1 Varchild's War-Riders
1 Hunted Troll
1 Hunted Phantasm
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Flameblade Angel
1 Shaman of the Great Hunt
1 Mystic Snake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Coiling Orale
1 Besmirch
1 Domineering Will
1 Illusionists Gambit
1 Death by Dragons
1 Sylvan Offering
1 Tempt with Reflections
1 Tempt with Vengeance
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Insurrection
1 Krosan Grip
1 Hull Breach
1 Benefactor's Drought
1 Order of Succession
1 Primal Command
1 Beast Within
1 Cultivate
Enchantments
1 Vow of Wildness
1 Vow of Flight
1 Vow of Lightning
1 Bitter Feud
1 Propaganda
1 Curse of the nightly hunt
1 Rite of the Raging Storm
1 Curse of Stalked Prey
1 Curse of Predation
1 Rhystic Study
1 Collective Restraint
1 War Tax
1 Assault Suit
1 Crown of Doom
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Perilous Vault
1 Spectral Searchlight
1 Sol Ring
Lands
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Command Tower
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Rogue's Passage
9 Forest
9 Island
10 Mountain
The wolf spirits are indeed intended as a part of the 'durdling' plan: they act as pseudo removal in the early game ambushing smaller creatures and as threats in the mid game when you are able to present them the choice between counterspell or threat. The general plan is the standard tempo plan of sticking a threat and protecting it.
I agree that there is a problem to contend with the big dogs. Once they slip something like gideon into play or anything else which creates incremental advantage it is quite difficult to catch up. The big question is: how do we deal with it. Perhaps via Engulf the Shore? Or by adding black fro -2/-2 sweepers? Or with red instant removal?
I tried to alleviate this problem with Duskwatch Recruiter, but it seems that some more action is required here. What would we want here? Lambholt Pacifist and Kessig Prowler can be used to create some early protection or pressure, respectively, and mantain a bit of the werewolf interaction. Otherwise copters of our own are still a possibility...
I was looking for a way to make use of Rashmi, Eternities Crafter in standard. To this end I started searching for cards with flash, since that is the best way to utilize Rashmi: playing at the opponents end step. To my surprise there are two green spirit wolves with flash which combine nicely with Rattlechains and Nebelghast Herald.
2 Rattlechains
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Nebelghast Herald
4 Spirit of the Hunt
3 Pack Guardian
3 Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Elder Deep-Fiend
3 Select for Inspection
2 Unsubstantiate
2 Negate
3 Void Shatter
2 Spell Shrivel
1 Pulse of Murasa
3 Lumbering Falls
4 Botanical Sanctum
1 Blighted Cataract
8 Island
7 Forest
The general idea is to play a tempo game at the end of the opponents turn until you can land a Rashmi, Eternities Crafter and can protect her a bit. The deck is probably a bit cute at the moment with no reliable removal outside of the counters, but I am curious if people can offer some advice to make this type of deck playable.
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-knot Seer
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Geth
3 Reality Smasher
3 Distended Mindbender
1 Noxiosu Gearhulk
3 Harsh Scrutiny
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Spacial Contortion
2 Warping Wail
Lands
4 Aether Hub
1 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Crumbling Sanctuary
1 Mirrorpool
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Blighted Fen
10 Swamps
I might be a little too deep into the discard aspect, but depending on the match up I can switch out the discard for removal or threats in my to-be-determined sideboard.
The RW angels deck that was discarded as a competitive brew might hold some interesting pointers on how to proceed without black.
4 Asylum Visitor
3 Heir of Falkenrath
3 Olivia's Dragoon
3 Olivia, Mobilized for War
2 Stromkirk Occultist
4 Bloodhall Priest
3 Hanweir Garrison
2 Ambuscade Shaman
1 Haunted Dead
2 Collective Brutality
3 Lightning Axe
1 Collective Defiance
2 Hanweir Battlements
3 Foreboding Ruins
2 Smoldering Marsh
7 Swamp
7 Mountains
1 Collective Defiance
2 Incendiary Flow
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Voldaren Pariah
1 Haunted Dead
1 Macabre Waltz
2 Duress
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Reckless Bushwacker
Game 1 vs G/R Ramp/delirium 2-0 win
First game I was able to beat him down before he was able to amount anything truly scary. Game 2 he was screwed with only drawing his Nissa's Pilgrimage and more lands out of his filtering options. Collective Brutality was an MVP in this matchup, eating up his relevant removal and destroying his hedron Crawlers. I sided in the transgress and duress over lightning axe and defiance, but never saw nor needed them.
Game 2 vs mono blue prison 1-2 loss
A truly frustrating match up in which both games seemingly were lost to luck, but was probably the result of superior filtering. Game 1 he drew like a god, landing a first and third turn Prism Ring, buffering his life. After strongly threatening his life on turn 5/6 he was able to find sequential Engulf the Shore for the win.... why is this card an instant :(. Game two I side in my discard and side out my lightning axes. This time hes wasn't able to stimy my advance and a turn 7 melded hanweir garrison/battlements with an active Ambuscade Shaman smashed in for lethal. Game 3 played a lot like game 1. I was able to strip his hand for a Engulf the Shore early with a Collective Brutality but he was able to find 2 others shortly after, making winning impossible
Game 3 vs Jund combos 2-0 Win
A friend of mine who attempted to smash every two card combo in standard in a single deck: Tree of Perdition+Assault Formation+Triskadekaphobia+Demonic Pact+Harmless Offering... just look for the combos
My deck was simply too fast with no real opposition from him. Apparently he made a mistake with his land count which lead to an awkward deck.
game 4 vs UW spirits 1-2 Loss
The salt of the day: Game 1 and 2 were close enough with me winning the first on the back of a 2 for 1 with Collective Brutality and losing game 2 to a well timed Rattlechains into Selfless Spirit for the blowout. Game 3 however saw me drawing nothing but land and all Olivia. Mobilized for war with a two Spell Quellers on his field. Any creature or removal would've been good enough since if one of the quellers died it would take another with them. It wouldn't happen
Game 5 vs RW humans 0-2 loss
Not much to say.... tons of one drops vs not drawing my two drops or removal in a timely matter makes for sad games.
In the future I will probably increase the amount of Ambuscade Shaman and corresponding synergy. The sequence of turn three Hanweir Garrison into turn 4 Ambuscade Shaman (hasted or not) proved to be very strong. I haven't played vs any bant decks for which I played the Lightning Axes, but they were kinda bad in other matchups unless I had a Fiery Temper and two red mana free (which wasn't that often). Will probably cut down to two or one with a same number in the side.
Perhaps adding Hedron Crawler next to the Curious Homunculus will help in the turbo department. Guaranteed turn 3 land destruction sounds good enough.
Imprison in the Moon on a basic land then Crumble to Dust is evil, but right now this move is quite unreliable since you have no way to assemble the combo. Open the Armory and Totem Hartebeest can help in this regard, but some good, old draw spell might do the trick here too. Perhaps you can even take a few hints from the mono-blue prison/prism decks that are performing quite well.
@bwachter70 Thanks, I got a good deal of inspiration from your Splendid Simic thread. Crumbling Vestige is indeed a strong option and will be included in my next version. Retreat to kazandu however I don't feel so good about. It doesn't help me win, it just helps me not lose. At the point the landfall becomes relevant I hope to have already won that game.
Other cards I have been looking at:
Zendikar's Roil: armies of 2/2s after resolving Splendid Reclamation sounds good, but the enchantment is so expensive
Sylvan Advocate, Tireless Tracker, jaddi Offshoot: all very viable and propably should be in the 75 somewhere over the current package.
Ulvenwald Hydra, Undergrowth Champion: two cards that are currently a bit underutilized, the hydra was in here first but Worldbreaker seemed better. Undergrowth champion might be really good at holding the fort in the early game
Damnable Pact might be an interesting black fireball variant to utilize or to keep a combo going.
What I'm also missing is interaction. The deck is a bit HAM at the moment. I'm thinking discard should be important here... Transgress the Mind most probably.
Let's say my board consists of:
Retreat to Coralhelm
Embodiment of Insight
and 4 assorted untapped lands.
In my graveyard I have 8 more lands and I play a Splendid Reclamation. 8 lands now enter the battlefield tapped, creating 8 triggers for Retreat to Coralhelm and Embodiment of Insight.
Can I stack this in such a way that I get to untap any of the lands and attack with them?
To rectify this I began searching for cards in Eldritch Moon that might interact favorably with the toad and lo and behold, these two gems rolled out:
Noose Constrictor and Olivia's Dragoon
Bot these cards serve as unlimited discard outlets.... for lands! Which, with The Gitrog Monster will draw you into more cards, hopefully more lands. With our graveyard now hopefully filled with loamy goodness and our hand stocked with other cards the next part can be executed: getting those lands into play again with Splendid Reclamation.
Now, I could flesh the deck out as a standard B/G delirium deck and call it a day, but then why play this silly combo at all. So I opted for a slight different setup:
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Gather the Pack
2 Grapple with the Past
3 Splendid Reclamation
2 Dark Petition
1 Ever After
1 Seasons Past
Enchantment
2 Vessel of Nascency
3 Retreat to Hagra
4 Olivia's Dragoon
4 Noose Constrictor
2 Den Protector
2 Wild-Field Scarecrow
3 The Gitrog Monster
2 World Breaker
Lands
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Blighted Fen
1 Blighted Woodland
2 Foul Orchard
1 Mirrorpool
2 Rogue's Passage
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Geier Reach sanitarium
6 Forest
5 Swamp
Thats right, 29 lands. This might be WAY too much, but it's a starting point. The idea is to really be able to optimize on The Gitrog Monster
Retreat to Hagra into Splendid Reclamation feels like a strong play that could sway the game heavily in my favor, especially after some possible beats of my two drops.
Beyond these cards, I jammmed in a small dredge package in the spells and expanded on it with Dark Petition and Seasons Past, though this may be completely wrong.
I would love some input on the viability of the core idea (The Gitrog Monster + unlimited discard outlet + Splendid Reclamation).