Well, in first case I will use Sliver Overlord, cause you need to draw Grothama and then fecth for Spiteful sliver, play it, and then play Grothama for suicide X slivers vs Grothama, doing X times 10 damage to any target, and drawing a ton if Grothama dies.
In The Great Henge case, it synergize with every sliver commander. I usually run Sliver Overlord as commander, but sometimes I change for any of the other sliver legends to pair the powerlevel of my deck with the others in casual games. Any sliver legend are a 7/7, so cast The Great Henge is kind of free, except for Sliver Hivelord or Morophon, the Boundless, but it is still great.
<<<<<<<<<<The Great Henge >>>>>>>>>>
Can be a better designed card to play with your commander in play? I said NO! Double ramp + lifegain + stronger slivers + draw card for efectively 0 mana. =)
Updated the aggro decklist to account for the inclusion of The First Sliver.
I've been thinking that having it around is kind of like having a permanent-based Primal Surge. I mean, if you can somehow sculpt your library to your leisure (Scroll Rack, anyone?), you can pretty much achieve similarly explosive effects. Opinions?
Scroll Rack sounds ideal to me. But I can imagine a scenario where KABOOM happens and then you return your slivers with Pulmonic Sliver to the top of your library in the right order, and return for free when The First Sliver comes into play and so on.
In another hive, I kind of discovered new ways of infinite combo without The Holy Sliver Queen when I was trying Morophon, the Boundless. With Morophon in your battlefield, you need Hibernation sliver, Lavabelly sliver and Syphon sliver (or Essence sliver or other lifelink source like Whip of Erebos) Then you pay 2 life return to your hand any sliver without colorless in their mana cost, play it again and again, gaining 1 life for Lavabelly and 1 life for lifelink, and deal 1 damage to any player in this infinite process. Far from ideal, but nice to have other ways to combo with only slivers without the Queen involved.
Oh, and you can Vindicate everything with Morophon, the Boundless, Necrotic sliver, Pulmonic Sliver, Dormant sliver and Basal sliver, by playing Necrotic and sacrifice it for BB mana in response to draw a card trigger of dormant. Then draw Necrotic itself thanks to Pulmonic, play it again by paying one of the B mana generated before and you get infinite B mana and/or infinite triggers of Necrotic sliver. Yeah, it's easier with Sliver Queen, but sometimes we need to find other unpredictable ways.
The Immortal Sun is sweet! The other day a Yasova Dragonclaw deck play it, and next round a Maelstrom Wanderer cascade into Karn Liberated. That player try to exile The Immortal Sun with Karn, hahahaha Not this time. I had even the Harmonic Sliver in play, but remove every other artifact/enchantmen before The Immortal Sun to avoid surprise Ugin, the Spirit Dragon wipes or similar. Then we killed Maelstrom deck cause it was mainly board wipe combo, and fight Yasova vs Overlord like true beastmages, no wipes, no counters...
I want to suggest a couple of cards to the lists:
-For the Spot Removal section, every Overlord player should at least try Crib Swap. Due to the hability Changeling, it is tutoreable via Overlord. So, with only Overlord in play, you can stay six mana-open to exile that huge annoying attacker from the opponent from nowhere. Its auto-tutoreable removal! No so sweet as Shields of Velis Vel cause with one more mana you can steal that creature, but it's always great have another removal, pointing to your threads from the deeps of your deck.
-And for the Shenanigans and tricks section, I suggest Telepathy. I know, looks like a cheap garbage card, cause it is. But this card IS PURE FUN. Always my opponents become angry when I play this and make me promises of death and destruction. But it's amazing which fast they forget this cheap trick when see all the threats in the hands of the other players. At the end of day, nobody wants to spend a removal on a dirty 1 CMC enchantment that really let them see others players hands. They can't see my hand, but my deck doesn't have so many threats but that slivers I fetch for, and those will be seen anyways. And meanwhile I can know when and how to play and adapt my board to respond opponent's threads before it happens. Last day I saw a Fleshbag Marauder and Merciless Executioner, so it saves me from play my bests slivers only to die. The same for every other removal/counter of any kind. I love this card, it is pure gold for casual games and commander politics if you know how to handle it. And it has a strong sinergy with Dementia Sliver, but I have never had the chance of try it.
Alright, want to get a last minute deck analysis in here. [...]
In general, it seems a strong deck to me. Without know how your meta is I can't recommend very specific things, but...
I'm not a fan of old slivers like Clot Sliver or Spectral Sliver, I prefer spend my mana in Overlord. I would try Crypt sliver for regen, or Hunter sliver for selective "removal". Hunter sliver is amazing, nobody expects your Overlord can kill creatures at will, I recommend you trying it.
I never tryed Taurean Mauler, but Thorncaster Sliver is great for board control, specially with Venom Sliver (1 attacker = 1 free kill)
Both Talon Sliver and Fury Sliver have better versions in M14-M15 slivers, Striking Sliver and Bonescythe Sliver. If you make both changes, color mana base remains the same, red for white and withe for red. On the other hand, they are ugly humanoid sliver
I can not recommend you enough to get more ramp. It's an abyss to get your Overlord on turn 4, instead turn 5-6. Simplest way is get mana rocks like your Darksteel Ingot. You can play it no matter what colors you have. I recommend you replace Shard Convergence with Chromatic Lantern (your deck is dry straw for a Blood Moon); Abundant Growth for Commander's Sphere; Sol Ring for Coalition Relic. All of them has a "similar" effect to remplaced card, but are real ramp for your Overlord turn 4.
For the lands, you can try the some of the Golgari Rot Farm cycle. They are specially vulnerable to destroy lands effects, but if there aren't a lot in your meta, it's a great advantage, it's close to a 2x1 land card, and the Queen knows this is a mana hungry deck.. You can try Thran Quarry if you are confident on keep your board, or Reflecting Pool.
If I read Dregscape Sliver correctly, and the more expert players who like to hang around here may correct me if I'm wrong, using either card means they're gone forever. You set up an unearth play, it has to go off all at once on the same turn, or you lose your pieces for good.
Oracle text about unearth: If a creature returned to the battlefield with unearth would leave the battlefield for any reason, it’s exiled instead — unless the spell or ability that’s causing the creature to leave the battlefield is actually trying to exile it! In that case, it succeeds at exiling it. If it later returns the creature card to the battlefield (as Oblivion Ring or Flickerwisp might, for example), the creature card will return to the battlefield as a new object with no relation to its previous existence. The unearth effect will no longer apply to it.
So, if I am not missunderstanding it, in both cases your revived slivers stay in the battlefield: In case of Teferi's Protection, triggers of "at the beginning of the next end step" misses target cause your slivers are phased out; in case of Ghostway is the same example case of Oblivion Ring or Flickerwisp. I think I saw Animatou decks using this already.
As I said some weeks ago, you can naturally get this effect of perma-unearth with 50% chance with Frenetic sliver.
MTG SALVATION is shutting down? Well, it has been a great time here in this thread, for the last 4 years since I registered and even before without an account. I will follow this thread and CruxMDQ to whatever corner of the web XD.
As a player of the EDH Hive since I can't even remember when I started, I would like to share my list here even if it would be lose in a couple of months, cause it's something I ever wanted but never did.
My deck has evolved (and it will continue doing it), I tried docens of cards, and I like to change from time to time, so this list is not permanent. The games I enjoy the most are those in which every player can show a bit the strong points of them decks, so I don't like mass removals or combos. My deck is focused in adapt my slivers to the threads of the other decks, being some kind of archenemy that will devour everything if ignored for too long, and I get a great performance on survive to near any kind of hate with the years. The usual plan is to play Quick Sliver as fast as possible to be able to react any kind of thread (other advantages are that my turns are really shorts, doing the game more agile for everyone). Others slots of the decks are slivers to adapt most common removals on my meta, every one of then has a purpose. What I enjoy the most of Overlord is to adapt my powerlevel to the other decks. If they are begginers, don't fetch slivers at all, fetch non-optimal ones or change the Overlord for Queen, Legion or Hivelord. Versus more competive decks, fetch for all the power of the hive.
I could write a wall of test about each card, sinergies and how to adapt in multiple scenarios, but I think EDH is (or should be) a causal format, so I leave to each one to explore them own ways. The deck is not a top tier one, more like a powerful casual level I think. I keep normally losing when Cyclonic rift or Expropriate with no counter in hand, but it's always fun to play.
I tested The First Sliver as commander the other day, and man! it's sweet. Not particularly strong in my deck as commander cause I run mainly 2 cmc slivers, but even 2x1 in casting sliver is nice. I hope their price don't go to the sky.
For me Dregscape Sliver is the best of four, cause none other sliver allows you play with graveyard before. You can unearth and flip a coin with your Frenetic Sliver to get 50/50 chance of recover that sliver permanently. For two colorless mana. You can resurrect your whole graveyard for a final strike with some kind of Mana echoes. Yes, thanks!
My expectacions for new slivers:
- Some kind of Zombify sliver. Check
-One for graveyard hate, some kind of Carrion Imp or Deathgorge Scavenger effect. My meta is graveyard heavy-based, and I miss some kind of Bojuka Sliver
-Hexproof sliver would be nice at 1UG, would be awesome at UG
Oh, and I am really happy to see that they return to traditional non-humanoid slivers. Those were a shame for the hive.
Are you talking about Grothama, All-Devouring + Spiteful Sliver or about The Great Henge?
Well, in first case I will use Sliver Overlord, cause you need to draw Grothama and then fecth for Spiteful sliver, play it, and then play Grothama for suicide X slivers vs Grothama, doing X times 10 damage to any target, and drawing a ton if Grothama dies.
In The Great Henge case, it synergize with every sliver commander. I usually run Sliver Overlord as commander, but sometimes I change for any of the other sliver legends to pair the powerlevel of my deck with the others in casual games. Any sliver legend are a 7/7, so cast The Great Henge is kind of free, except for Sliver Hivelord or Morophon, the Boundless, but it is still great.
Can be a better designed card to play with your commander in play? I said NO! Double ramp + lifegain + stronger slivers + draw card for efectively 0 mana. =)
I could get a Grothama, All-Devouring, so I'm ready to combo with Spiteful Sliver. I hope it will be so awesome like it seems.
Other silly ideas come to me in shape of Pariah or Gideon's Sacrifice effects; pair Spiteful with others like Syphon sliver, Psionic sliver or Sliver Hivelord; Tainted Strikelike card for deal direct infect damage; Grothama, All-Devouring seems pretty powerfull to me; abuse cards with "damage to opponent" like Snake Umbra or Curiosity
Scroll Rack sounds ideal to me. But I can imagine a scenario where KABOOM happens and then you return your slivers with Pulmonic Sliver to the top of your library in the right order, and return for free when The First Sliver comes into play and so on.
In another hive, I kind of discovered new ways of infinite combo without The Holy Sliver Queen when I was trying Morophon, the Boundless. With Morophon in your battlefield, you need Hibernation sliver, Lavabelly sliver and Syphon sliver (or Essence sliver or other lifelink source like Whip of Erebos) Then you pay 2 life return to your hand any sliver without colorless in their mana cost, play it again and again, gaining 1 life for Lavabelly and 1 life for lifelink, and deal 1 damage to any player in this infinite process. Far from ideal, but nice to have other ways to combo with only slivers without the Queen involved.
Oh, and you can Vindicate everything with Morophon, the Boundless, Necrotic sliver, Pulmonic Sliver, Dormant sliver and Basal sliver, by playing Necrotic and sacrifice it for BB mana in response to draw a card trigger of dormant. Then draw Necrotic itself thanks to Pulmonic, play it again by paying one of the B mana generated before and you get infinite B mana and/or infinite triggers of Necrotic sliver. Yeah, it's easier with Sliver Queen, but sometimes we need to find other unpredictable ways.
I want to suggest a couple of cards to the lists:
-For the Spot Removal section, every Overlord player should at least try Crib Swap. Due to the hability Changeling, it is tutoreable via Overlord. So, with only Overlord in play, you can stay six mana-open to exile that huge annoying attacker from the opponent from nowhere. Its auto-tutoreable removal! No so sweet as Shields of Velis Vel cause with one more mana you can steal that creature, but it's always great have another removal, pointing to your threads from the deeps of your deck.
-And for the Shenanigans and tricks section, I suggest Telepathy. I know, looks like a cheap garbage card, cause it is. But this card IS PURE FUN. Always my opponents become angry when I play this and make me promises of death and destruction. But it's amazing which fast they forget this cheap trick when see all the threats in the hands of the other players. At the end of day, nobody wants to spend a removal on a dirty 1 CMC enchantment that really let them see others players hands. They can't see my hand, but my deck doesn't have so many threats but that slivers I fetch for, and those will be seen anyways. And meanwhile I can know when and how to play and adapt my board to respond opponent's threads before it happens. Last day I saw a Fleshbag Marauder and Merciless Executioner, so it saves me from play my bests slivers only to die. The same for every other removal/counter of any kind. I love this card, it is pure gold for casual games and commander politics if you know how to handle it. And it has a strong sinergy with Dementia Sliver, but I have never had the chance of try it.
In general, it seems a strong deck to me. Without know how your meta is I can't recommend very specific things, but...
I'm not a fan of old slivers like Clot Sliver or Spectral Sliver, I prefer spend my mana in Overlord. I would try Crypt sliver for regen, or Hunter sliver for selective "removal". Hunter sliver is amazing, nobody expects your Overlord can kill creatures at will, I recommend you trying it.
I never tryed Taurean Mauler, but Thorncaster Sliver is great for board control, specially with Venom Sliver (1 attacker = 1 free kill)
Both Talon Sliver and Fury Sliver have better versions in M14-M15 slivers, Striking Sliver and Bonescythe Sliver. If you make both changes, color mana base remains the same, red for white and withe for red. On the other hand, they are ugly humanoid sliver
I can not recommend you enough to get more ramp. It's an abyss to get your Overlord on turn 4, instead turn 5-6. Simplest way is get mana rocks like your Darksteel Ingot. You can play it no matter what colors you have. I recommend you replace Shard Convergence with Chromatic Lantern (your deck is dry straw for a Blood Moon); Abundant Growth for Commander's Sphere; Sol Ring for Coalition Relic. All of them has a "similar" effect to remplaced card, but are real ramp for your Overlord turn 4.
For the lands, you can try the some of the Golgari Rot Farm cycle. They are specially vulnerable to destroy lands effects, but if there aren't a lot in your meta, it's a great advantage, it's close to a 2x1 land card, and the Queen knows this is a mana hungry deck.. You can try Thran Quarry if you are confident on keep your board, or Reflecting Pool.
You can try Overwhelming Stampede, with Overlord in play it's even better than Legion, but only for a last hit.
Oracle text about unearth:
If a creature returned to the battlefield with unearth would leave the battlefield for any reason, it’s exiled instead — unless the spell or ability that’s causing the creature to leave the battlefield is actually trying to exile it! In that case, it succeeds at exiling it. If it later returns the creature card to the battlefield (as Oblivion Ring or Flickerwisp might, for example), the creature card will return to the battlefield as a new object with no relation to its previous existence. The unearth effect will no longer apply to it.
So, if I am not missunderstanding it, in both cases your revived slivers stay in the battlefield: In case of Teferi's Protection, triggers of "at the beginning of the next end step" misses target cause your slivers are phased out; in case of Ghostway is the same example case of Oblivion Ring or Flickerwisp. I think I saw Animatou decks using this already.
As I said some weeks ago, you can naturally get this effect of perma-unearth with 50% chance with Frenetic sliver.
Excited about Flood of Tears of M20. I can't wait for cast it, cheat a Morophon, the Boundless, and recast my full hand It seems a balanced Cyclonic Rift to me.
As a player of the EDH Hive since I can't even remember when I started, I would like to share my list here even if it would be lose in a couple of months, cause it's something I ever wanted but never did.
My deck has evolved (and it will continue doing it), I tried docens of cards, and I like to change from time to time, so this list is not permanent. The games I enjoy the most are those in which every player can show a bit the strong points of them decks, so I don't like mass removals or combos. My deck is focused in adapt my slivers to the threads of the other decks, being some kind of archenemy that will devour everything if ignored for too long, and I get a great performance on survive to near any kind of hate with the years. The usual plan is to play Quick Sliver as fast as possible to be able to react any kind of thread (other advantages are that my turns are really shorts, doing the game more agile for everyone). Others slots of the decks are slivers to adapt most common removals on my meta, every one of then has a purpose. What I enjoy the most of Overlord is to adapt my powerlevel to the other decks. If they are begginers, don't fetch slivers at all, fetch non-optimal ones or change the Overlord for Queen, Legion or Hivelord. Versus more competive decks, fetch for all the power of the hive.
1 Screeching sliver
1 Plated sliver
1 Striking sliver
1 Galerider sliver
1 Gemhide sliver
1 Manaweft sliver
1 Venom sliver
1 Muscle sliver
1 Sinew sliver
1 Cautery sliver
1 Darkheart sliver
1 Ghostflame sliver
1 Crypt sliver
1 Hunter sliver
1 Winged sliver
1 Crystalline sliver
1 Quick sliver
1 Sentinel sliver
1 Heart sliver
1 Talon sliver
1 Hibernation sliver
1 Sedge sliver
1 Frenetic sliver
1 Basal sliver
1 Necrotic sliver
1 Syphon sliver
1 Blur sliver
1 Firewake sliver
1 Harmonic sliver
1 Telekinetic sliver
1 Bonescythe sliver
1 Shifting sliver
1 Bonesplitter sliver
1 Essence sliver
1 Toxin sliver
1 Thorncaster sliver
1 Brood sliver
1 Constricting sliver
1 Sliver Queen
1 Sliver Legion
1 Sliver Hivelord
1 Bloom tender
Cards for turn 4 drop Overlord (7)
1 Nature's lore
1 Fellwar stone
1 Darksteel ingot
1 Commander's sphere
1 Coalition relic
1 Chromatic lantern
1 Vessel of Endless Rest
Tricks (4)
1 Swan song
1 Shields of Velis Vel
1 Crib swap
1 Telepathy
Finisher spells (8)
1 Training grounds
1 Bring to light
1 Overwhelming stampede
1 Living death
1 Traverse the outlands
1 Rishkar's expertise
1 Mana echoes
1 Bear umbra
Lands (38)
2 Plains
1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Seaside citadel
1 Opulent palace
1 Mystic monastery
1 Vivid creek
1 Golgari rot farm
1 Dimir aqueduct
1 Izzet boilerworks
1 Selesnya sanctuary
1 Shizo, death's storehouse
1 Temple of the false god
1 Path of ancestry
1 Reflecting pool
1 Sliver Hive
1 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Thran quarry
1 Cavern of souls
1 Exotic Orchard
1 City of brass
1 Command tower
1 Unclaimed territory
1 Sea of clouds
1 Godless shrine
1 Sacred foundry
1 Temple garden
1 Watery grave
1 Steam vents
1 Breeding pool
1 Blood crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping ground
1 Mirari's wake
1 Spirit of resistance
1 Urza's incubator
1 Faces of the past
1 Call to the kindred
1 Unnatural selection
1 Braid of fire
1 Harsh mercy
1 Quest for renewal
1 Bant charm
1 Tunnel vision
1 Patriarch's bidding
1 Unearth
1 Green sun's zenith
1 Civic saber
1 Dizzy spell
1 Seedborn muse
I could write a wall of test about each card, sinergies and how to adapt in multiple scenarios, but I think EDH is (or should be) a causal format, so I leave to each one to explore them own ways. The deck is not a top tier one, more like a powerful casual level I think. I keep normally losing when Cyclonic rift or Expropriate with no counter in hand, but it's always fun to play.
With new slivers, I probably try
-Blur sliver -> Cloudshredder sliver
-Cautery sliver -> Lavabelly sliver
-Hollowhead sliver -> Bonesplitter sliver
-Crypt sliver -> Dregscape sliver
-Thorncaster sliver -> The First Sliver
-Bloom tender -> Morophon, the Boundless
I tested The First Sliver as commander the other day, and man! it's sweet. Not particularly strong in my deck as commander cause I run mainly 2 cmc slivers, but even 2x1 in casting sliver is nice. I hope their price don't go to the sky.
Nothing specially powerfull for me, but it could be great for pseudo-vigilance or abuse to other nasty slivers like Magma Sliver, Telekinetic Sliver, Psionic Sliver o Dementia Sliver (Or Amoeboid Changeling)
My expectacions for new slivers:
- S
ome kind of Zombify sliver.Check-One for graveyard hate, some kind of Carrion Imp or Deathgorge Scavenger effect. My meta is graveyard heavy-based, and I miss some kind of Bojuka Sliver
-Hexproof sliver would be nice at 1UG, would be awesome at UG
Oh, and I am really happy to see that they return to traditional non-humanoid slivers. Those were a shame for the hive.