Would this be a viable commander for the deck. It would allow for Eldrazi decks of any color combinations in EDH.
Eldrazi Commander 5
W: Gain 1 life
R: Target player loses 1 life
G: Target creature gets +1/+1 until EOT
B: Exile target card in a graveyard
U: Scry 1
Colorless: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool
5/5
Eldrazi Commmander 5
R: Deal 1 damage to target player
W: Gain 1 life
G: Target creature gets +1/+1 until EOT
B: Exile target card in a graveyard
U: Scry 1
Colorless: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool
5/5
Wizards specifically mentioned that this commander set will be outside of the color wheel. And that they are emphasizing popular and interesting tribes.
This leads me to believe that one of the tribes will be Eldrazi. It's very popular, and EDH players would love to play it if it had a few more cards.
Eldrazi is easily the most popular tribe relative to how few creatures there actually are in the tribe. And it's not like we are going to get any more Eldrazi in standard sets so COMM17 is the only chance for more Eldrazi.
In addition doing 4 five color decks would be boring. Three five color decks (Perhaps Dragons, Angels and Demons) along with a colorless COMM set would be more interesting and all four creature tribes would allow for lots of massively powerful creatures along the philosophy of EDH.
A colorless commander prebuilt deck has never been done before and this would provide a rare opportunity to do one.
Also I would love for more decent Eldrazi to be printed for Legacy. A 4cc Kozilek's Channeler for example would be a godsend, even as a 3/3.
One route I am considering is to drop both Lightning Greaves and Apostle's Blessing to play 3-4 Altar of Dementia and 3-4 Fact or Fiction along with the 3rd Misdirection.
This way, you can avoid the combat step entirely if facing chump blockers or death touch creatures.
And the blue count would be even higher so Chrome Mox is a nonissue. I like that Chrome Mox makes mana every turn. This deck plays the slow game too, it doesn't always aim for one explosive turn, so having the mana over multiple turns is good.
Thank you. Yes I agree. It's a very strong deck. I don't think most people quite get how well all the pieces fit together and how good it is versus the current format but if it stays under the radar, that's fine with me.
With all the sol lands, impulse isn't usually any cheaper than intuition. And brainstorm is a no go with Chalice. Intuition is a 3cc instant speed Demonic Tutor able to get any card you want at the end of your opponents turn or in response to one of their spells so it's very good here. Surgical Extraction in the board would be solid and quite possibly would be better than Fairie Macabre though it is dyssynegic with your maindeck Chalice. The only rough match I have run into with this deck is Reanimator since it's a faster combo with counter magic and discard but Chalice is MVP in the matchup and postboard Macabres push it back into our favor.
You're right about the manabase, it's functional but might be the only part of the deck that could be improved upon. Lotus Petal could be a good option. Will look into it.
Reserved for matchup analysis and alternate builds.
Impulse or Fact or Fiction are great options for this deck to provide more card selection and increase the blue count.
One alternate build route to consider especially if Eldrazi is a popular deck in your local meta is to drop both Lightning Greaves and Apostle's Blessing from the deck to play 3-4 Altar of Dementia and 3-4 Impulse or Fact or Fiction along with the 3rd Misdirection maindeck.
This is a deck I developed to abuse Crackdown Construct and incorporate it into a shell that is extremely consistent, resilient and packed with tools to deal with anything your opponent could throw at it. I originally posted this list at the source over a week ago but figured it might get more discussion here. Every single card in the deck serves multiple important functions:
Chalice of the Void - An excellent tool to disrupt most decks. A first turn chalice allows this deck to outrace significantly faster combo decks and also protects the combo from cards like StP and Thoughtsieze.
Apostle's Blessing - It protects Chalice, the various combo pieces, and also enables your 1000/1000 attacker to dodge potential blockers thereby winning you the game. The only situation where this card is not useful is the Eldrazi matchup. If Eldrazi dominates your meta, I would advise cutting this card completely and maindecking 3 Altar of Dementia and the 3rd Misdirection.
Intuition - The ability to grab precisely the piece you need to combo off or to best protect the combo, castable at instant speed at the end of your opponent's turn is invaluable. Due to the interchangeability of combo pieces, you'll frequently be using it to grab a Force of Will, Chalice of the Void or Apostle's Blessing at a critical juncture.
Force of Will - I don't think I need to explain this one.
Misdirection - By redirecting your opponent's discard and removal at their own cards, Misdirection allows for massive swings in your favor. The look on your opponent's face when you respond to a Hymn/StP/Abrupt Decay/FoW/Path/Dismember/Thoughtseize with a Misdirection is priceless. While I considered Trinisphere here, Misdirection was essential in bringing the blue count up to the healthy 18 needed to consistently support FoW/Chrome Mox. Daze was also considered here but Misdirection proved to be more potent. However, only 2 felt appropriate maindeck since you will run into an occasional matchup or two where Misdirection is not particularly useful. Against the numerous matchups you'll face where targets are plentiful, you should bring the third one in from the board so that you can grab Misdirection with Intuition in response to a redirectable spell.
Lightning Greaves - Combos with Construct due to it's 0 equip cost. More importantly, it gives all your creatures haste, effectively speeding up the fundamental turn by atleast one, invalidating sorcery speed removal, while also giving your lethal piece hexproof.
Various Combo Pieces - Wake Thrasher is pretty much identical to Crackdown Construct in every situation except for Lightning Greaves. Otherwise, all of the combo pieces are interchangeable making this deck just about the most consistent two card combo deck I can think of. Situations where you don't have the cards necessary to combo off are rare and Intuition serves as a handy backup in such cases. And due to the sheer volume of interchangeable combo pieces, the deck is able to recover from any number of discard and counterspells your opponents can throw at it. Extraneous combo pieces can also be used to bait your opponent's counterspells or removal, fuel FoW/Chrome Mox, as mana sources to speed you up by a turn, or as chump blockers to buy you an extra turn.
Manabase - After trying out a multitude of very powerful accelerants including Grim Monolith coupled with a few Voltaic Keys, I eventually settled on a manabase modeled after Faerie Stompy and haven't looked back since.
Sideboard - The sideboard is packed with a wide array of hate to slow down any matchup you could possibly face. Altars are particularly effective as alternate win conditions that play around chump blockers, bridges and moats.
Avaricious Dragon is a solid card in any deck that plans to empty out it's hand by turn 4 or 5, prowess, RDW etc. In those decks, it doesn't have a drawback, all it does is draw you an extra card every single turn.
I've had Kozilek Butcher of Truth singlehandedly win me games against decking strategies. Annihilator 4 is amazing is as well. As this I'm more inclined to it over Kozilek Great Distortion.
I also find a playset of either Radiant Fountain or Gemstone Caverns worthwhile as a way to slow down your opponents or speed yourself up.
I can't see how that could possibly be true since Shrieking Affliction got printed. It's The Rack 5-8 and it's absolutely amazing in the deck. The primer and the decklist in the primer definitely need to be updated to include that card.
Why Radiant Fountain? The deck being slower costs you to lose games to aggro that you were a turn away from winning. Gaining 2 life can often buy you that extra turn against very fast aggro. In addition, it's a great target for Vesuva as well gaining you 4 life. In a bind, you can even tutor it up with Expedition Map. I've been very happy with the life gain the 4 Radiant Fountain I run has been giving me.
Why all the rampers? Without Eye, the deck needs to run some ramp spells. Counting on assembling Tron every game is not a smart plan, especially with all the Ghost Quarters running around. The deck can't even support Sylvan Scrying. The deck needs enough ramp that it can function and cast Ulamogs even if Tron doesn't get assembled. Conduit of Ruin is a solid ramper, but I've found that Mind Stone and Palladium Myr supplement it very well, ramping you into a turn 4 Conduit and a turn 5 breaker of worlds (one sided sweepers are always awesome).
If you're not happy with the available colorless rampers, the other option is to splash green to play Boreal Druids, Sylvan Scrying and World Breakers. But I couldn't find a consistent way to make that happen without running 28+ lands.
The only other problem with the colorless rampers is their dysnergy with Oblivion Stone. I've had success cutting Stone completely and relying on Dismembers and Spatial Contortions to provide adequate early game removal to buy time till you ramp into a Wurmcoil Engine or an Ulamog or a postboard All is Dust.
Kozilek is fantastic against mill strategies btw. Just a singleton wins games vs that matchup. I love playing 1 in my 75.
There's a couple of things I was hoping you could add your insight into.
Why no mention of Radiant Fountain? The deck being slower costs you to lose games to aggro that you were a turn away from winning. Gaining 2 life can often buy you that extra turn against very fast aggro. In addition, it's a great target for Vesuva as well gaining you 4 life. In a bind, you can even tutor it up with Expedition Map. I've been very happy with the life gain the 4 Radiant Fountain I run has been giving me.
Where are the rampers? Without Eye, the deck needs to run some ramp spells. Counting on assembling Tron every game is not a smart plan, especially with all the Ghost Quarters running around. The deck can't even support Sylvan Scrying. The deck needs enough ramp that it can function and cast Ulamogs even if Tron doesn't get assembled. Conduit of Ruin is a solid ramper, but I've found that Mind Stone and Palladium Myr supplement it very well, ramping you into a turn 4 Conduit and a turn 5 breaker of worlds (one sided sweepers are always awesome).
If you're not happy with the available colorless rampers, the other option is to splash green to play Boreal Druids, Sylvan Scrying and World Breakers. But I can't find a consistent way to make that happen without running 28+ lands.
The only other problem with the colorless rampers is their dysnergy with Oblivion Stone. I've had success cutting Stone completely and relying on Dismembers and Spatial Contortions to provide adequate early game removal to buy time till you ramp into a Wurmcoil Engine or an Ulamog.
Below is a list I brew independently before finding this thread. It performed well for me at the local modern tourney and I didn't miss the loss of Eye of Ugin at all.
Here is the list I'm fairly sure is close to optimal. But suggestions to refine it further are much appreciated.
As you can see, this list is a bit more top heavy that most Eldrazi Aggro decks you're probably used to. The more powerful threat-base is enabled by playing a lot more mana ramp which wasn't playable before because Eye of Ugin wouldn't help you cast any of the potential rampers.
Rampers allow you to plop down on turn 4 a gamebreaking card like Wurmcoil Engine (another excellent card that was also unplayable in a deck that housed 4 Eye of Ugin). By going this route, you're able to play a much higher density of gamebreaking threats.
Expedition Map allows you to assemble the tron combo by turn 3. Just as useful, Map can fetch up an Eldrazi Temple on turn 2 which is often all you need to start laying down your game winning threats starting turn 3.
Conduit of Ruin is a tutor, ramper, and threat all in one card.
Radiant Fountain both helps you survive long enough to take control of the board, and offers up a juicy target for Vesuva to copy when it doesn't have an Eldrazi Temple to copy and you don't have the tron combo assembled yet.
Below is a list I brew independently before finding this thread. It performed well for me at the local modern tourney and I didn't miss the loss of Eye of Ugin at all.
Here is the list I'm fairly sure is close to optimal. But suggestions to refine it further are much appreciated.
As you can see, this list is a bit more top heavy that most Eldrazi Aggro decks you're probably used to. The more powerful threat-base is enabled by playing a lot more mana ramp which wasn't playable before because Eye of Ugin wouldn't help you cast any of the potential rampers.
Rampers allow you to plop down on turn 4 a gamebreaking card like Wurmcoil Engine (another excellent card that was also unplayable in a deck that housed 4 Eye of Ugin). By going this route, you're able to play a much higher density of gamebreaking threats.
Expedition Map allows you to assemble the tron combo by turn 3. Just as useful, Map can fetch up an Eldrazi Temple on turn 2 which is often all you need to start laying down your game winning threats starting turn 3.
Conduit of Ruin is a tutor, ramper, and threat all in one card.
Radiant Fountain both helps you survive long enough to take control of the board, and offers up a juicy target for Vesuva to copy when it doesn't have an Eldrazi Temple to copy and you don't have the tron combo assembled yet.
Eldrazi Commander 5
W: Gain 1 life
R: Target player loses 1 life
G: Target creature gets +1/+1 until EOT
B: Exile target card in a graveyard
U: Scry 1
Colorless: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool
5/5
R: Deal 1 damage to target player
W: Gain 1 life
G: Target creature gets +1/+1 until EOT
B: Exile target card in a graveyard
U: Scry 1
Colorless: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool
5/5
Wizards specifically mentioned that this commander set will be outside of the color wheel. And that they are emphasizing popular and interesting tribes.
This leads me to believe that one of the tribes will be Eldrazi. It's very popular, and EDH players would love to play it if it had a few more cards.
Eldrazi is easily the most popular tribe relative to how few creatures there actually are in the tribe. And it's not like we are going to get any more Eldrazi in standard sets so COMM17 is the only chance for more Eldrazi.
In addition doing 4 five color decks would be boring. Three five color decks (Perhaps Dragons, Angels and Demons) along with a colorless COMM set would be more interesting and all four creature tribes would allow for lots of massively powerful creatures along the philosophy of EDH.
A colorless commander prebuilt deck has never been done before and this would provide a rare opportunity to do one.
Also I would love for more decent Eldrazi to be printed for Legacy. A 4cc Kozilek's Channeler for example would be a godsend, even as a 3/3.
One route I am considering is to drop both Lightning Greaves and Apostle's Blessing to play 3-4 Altar of Dementia and 3-4 Fact or Fiction along with the 3rd Misdirection.
This way, you can avoid the combat step entirely if facing chump blockers or death touch creatures.
And the blue count would be even higher so Chrome Mox is a nonissue. I like that Chrome Mox makes mana every turn. This deck plays the slow game too, it doesn't always aim for one explosive turn, so having the mana over multiple turns is good.
Wipeout looks decent in the board as well.
With all the sol lands, impulse isn't usually any cheaper than intuition. And brainstorm is a no go with Chalice. Intuition is a 3cc instant speed Demonic Tutor able to get any card you want at the end of your opponents turn or in response to one of their spells so it's very good here. Surgical Extraction in the board would be solid and quite possibly would be better than Fairie Macabre though it is dyssynegic with your maindeck Chalice. The only rough match I have run into with this deck is Reanimator since it's a faster combo with counter magic and discard but Chalice is MVP in the matchup and postboard Macabres push it back into our favor.
You're right about the manabase, it's functional but might be the only part of the deck that could be improved upon. Lotus Petal could be a good option. Will look into it.
Impulse or Fact or Fiction are great options for this deck to provide more card selection and increase the blue count.
One alternate build route to consider especially if Eldrazi is a popular deck in your local meta is to drop both Lightning Greaves and Apostle's Blessing from the deck to play 3-4 Altar of Dementia and 3-4 Impulse or Fact or Fiction along with the 3rd Misdirection maindeck.
Maindeck:
Sideboard:
This is a deck I developed to abuse Crackdown Construct and incorporate it into a shell that is extremely consistent, resilient and packed with tools to deal with anything your opponent could throw at it. I originally posted this list at the source over a week ago but figured it might get more discussion here. Every single card in the deck serves multiple important functions:
Chalice of the Void - An excellent tool to disrupt most decks. A first turn chalice allows this deck to outrace significantly faster combo decks and also protects the combo from cards like StP and Thoughtsieze.
Apostle's Blessing - It protects Chalice, the various combo pieces, and also enables your 1000/1000 attacker to dodge potential blockers thereby winning you the game. The only situation where this card is not useful is the Eldrazi matchup. If Eldrazi dominates your meta, I would advise cutting this card completely and maindecking 3 Altar of Dementia and the 3rd Misdirection.
Intuition - The ability to grab precisely the piece you need to combo off or to best protect the combo, castable at instant speed at the end of your opponent's turn is invaluable. Due to the interchangeability of combo pieces, you'll frequently be using it to grab a Force of Will, Chalice of the Void or Apostle's Blessing at a critical juncture.
Force of Will - I don't think I need to explain this one.
Misdirection - By redirecting your opponent's discard and removal at their own cards, Misdirection allows for massive swings in your favor. The look on your opponent's face when you respond to a Hymn/StP/Abrupt Decay/FoW/Path/Dismember/Thoughtseize with a Misdirection is priceless. While I considered Trinisphere here, Misdirection was essential in bringing the blue count up to the healthy 18 needed to consistently support FoW/Chrome Mox. Daze was also considered here but Misdirection proved to be more potent. However, only 2 felt appropriate maindeck since you will run into an occasional matchup or two where Misdirection is not particularly useful. Against the numerous matchups you'll face where targets are plentiful, you should bring the third one in from the board so that you can grab Misdirection with Intuition in response to a redirectable spell.
Lightning Greaves - Combos with Construct due to it's 0 equip cost. More importantly, it gives all your creatures haste, effectively speeding up the fundamental turn by atleast one, invalidating sorcery speed removal, while also giving your lethal piece hexproof.
Various Combo Pieces - Wake Thrasher is pretty much identical to Crackdown Construct in every situation except for Lightning Greaves. Otherwise, all of the combo pieces are interchangeable making this deck just about the most consistent two card combo deck I can think of. Situations where you don't have the cards necessary to combo off are rare and Intuition serves as a handy backup in such cases. And due to the sheer volume of interchangeable combo pieces, the deck is able to recover from any number of discard and counterspells your opponents can throw at it. Extraneous combo pieces can also be used to bait your opponent's counterspells or removal, fuel FoW/Chrome Mox, as mana sources to speed you up by a turn, or as chump blockers to buy you an extra turn.
Manabase - After trying out a multitude of very powerful accelerants including Grim Monolith coupled with a few Voltaic Keys, I eventually settled on a manabase modeled after Faerie Stompy and haven't looked back since.
Sideboard - The sideboard is packed with a wide array of hate to slow down any matchup you could possibly face. Altars are particularly effective as alternate win conditions that play around chump blockers, bridges and moats.
I also find a playset of either Radiant Fountain or Gemstone Caverns worthwhile as a way to slow down your opponents or speed yourself up.
I can't see how that could possibly be true since Shrieking Affliction got printed. It's The Rack 5-8 and it's absolutely amazing in the deck. The primer and the decklist in the primer definitely need to be updated to include that card.
Here is my list...
4 The Rack
4 Innocent Blood
4 Raven's Crime
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Bloodghast
2 Noetic Scales
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
12 Swamp
Other cards I'm considering making room for are Sinkhole and Wretched Banquet.
I am also super tempted to find a way to squeeze in the Dakmor Salvage + Bloodghast + Nether Spirit combo.
Suggestions welcome.
Why Radiant Fountain? The deck being slower costs you to lose games to aggro that you were a turn away from winning. Gaining 2 life can often buy you that extra turn against very fast aggro. In addition, it's a great target for Vesuva as well gaining you 4 life. In a bind, you can even tutor it up with Expedition Map. I've been very happy with the life gain the 4 Radiant Fountain I run has been giving me.
Why all the rampers? Without Eye, the deck needs to run some ramp spells. Counting on assembling Tron every game is not a smart plan, especially with all the Ghost Quarters running around. The deck can't even support Sylvan Scrying. The deck needs enough ramp that it can function and cast Ulamogs even if Tron doesn't get assembled. Conduit of Ruin is a solid ramper, but I've found that Mind Stone and Palladium Myr supplement it very well, ramping you into a turn 4 Conduit and a turn 5 breaker of worlds (one sided sweepers are always awesome).
If you're not happy with the available colorless rampers, the other option is to splash green to play Boreal Druids, Sylvan Scrying and World Breakers. But I couldn't find a consistent way to make that happen without running 28+ lands.
The only other problem with the colorless rampers is their dysnergy with Oblivion Stone. I've had success cutting Stone completely and relying on Dismembers and Spatial Contortions to provide adequate early game removal to buy time till you ramp into a Wurmcoil Engine or an Ulamog or a postboard All is Dust.
Kozilek is fantastic against mill strategies btw. Just a singleton wins games vs that matchup. I love playing 1 in my 75.
There's a couple of things I was hoping you could add your insight into.
Why no mention of Radiant Fountain? The deck being slower costs you to lose games to aggro that you were a turn away from winning. Gaining 2 life can often buy you that extra turn against very fast aggro. In addition, it's a great target for Vesuva as well gaining you 4 life. In a bind, you can even tutor it up with Expedition Map. I've been very happy with the life gain the 4 Radiant Fountain I run has been giving me.
Where are the rampers? Without Eye, the deck needs to run some ramp spells. Counting on assembling Tron every game is not a smart plan, especially with all the Ghost Quarters running around. The deck can't even support Sylvan Scrying. The deck needs enough ramp that it can function and cast Ulamogs even if Tron doesn't get assembled. Conduit of Ruin is a solid ramper, but I've found that Mind Stone and Palladium Myr supplement it very well, ramping you into a turn 4 Conduit and a turn 5 breaker of worlds (one sided sweepers are always awesome).
If you're not happy with the available colorless rampers, the other option is to splash green to play Boreal Druids, Sylvan Scrying and World Breakers. But I can't find a consistent way to make that happen without running 28+ lands.
The only other problem with the colorless rampers is their dysnergy with Oblivion Stone. I've had success cutting Stone completely and relying on Dismembers and Spatial Contortions to provide adequate early game removal to buy time till you ramp into a Wurmcoil Engine or an Ulamog.
Here is the list I'm fairly sure is close to optimal. But suggestions to refine it further are much appreciated.
Blind Eldrazi
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Radiant Fountain
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Vesuva
2 Wastes
4 Expedition Map
4 Mind Stone
3 Spatial Contortion
3 Dismember
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Damping Matrix
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Gut Shot
1 All is Dust
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
As you can see, this list is a bit more top heavy that most Eldrazi Aggro decks you're probably used to. The more powerful threat-base is enabled by playing a lot more mana ramp which wasn't playable before because Eye of Ugin wouldn't help you cast any of the potential rampers.
Rampers allow you to plop down on turn 4 a gamebreaking card like Wurmcoil Engine (another excellent card that was also unplayable in a deck that housed 4 Eye of Ugin). By going this route, you're able to play a much higher density of gamebreaking threats.
Expedition Map allows you to assemble the tron combo by turn 3. Just as useful, Map can fetch up an Eldrazi Temple on turn 2 which is often all you need to start laying down your game winning threats starting turn 3.
Conduit of Ruin is a tutor, ramper, and threat all in one card.
Radiant Fountain both helps you survive long enough to take control of the board, and offers up a juicy target for Vesuva to copy when it doesn't have an Eldrazi Temple to copy and you don't have the tron combo assembled yet.
How would you suggest improving on this list?
Here is the list I'm fairly sure is close to optimal. But suggestions to refine it further are much appreciated.
Blind Eldrazi
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Radiant Fountain
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Vesuva
2 Wastes
4 Expedition Map
4 Mind Stone
3 Spatial Contortion
3 Dismember
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Damping Matrix
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Gut Shot
1 All is Dust
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
As you can see, this list is a bit more top heavy that most Eldrazi Aggro decks you're probably used to. The more powerful threat-base is enabled by playing a lot more mana ramp which wasn't playable before because Eye of Ugin wouldn't help you cast any of the potential rampers.
Rampers allow you to plop down on turn 4 a gamebreaking card like Wurmcoil Engine (another excellent card that was also unplayable in a deck that housed 4 Eye of Ugin). By going this route, you're able to play a much higher density of gamebreaking threats.
Expedition Map allows you to assemble the tron combo by turn 3. Just as useful, Map can fetch up an Eldrazi Temple on turn 2 which is often all you need to start laying down your game winning threats starting turn 3.
Conduit of Ruin is a tutor, ramper, and threat all in one card.
Radiant Fountain both helps you survive long enough to take control of the board, and offers up a juicy target for Vesuva to copy when it doesn't have an Eldrazi Temple to copy and you don't have the tron combo assembled yet.
How would you suggest improving on this list?