Scapeshift. Ramp is good. Casting primeval titan is good. A one card combo win is good. Control through permission and burn is good. It's all good.
How is this deck underrated whatsoever? This deck is a solid tier 1 deck that has many placings this year.
It underrated because it performs well and has a middling level of popularity. It's share of the overall meta is around 3.5%, not even top ten decks played but it continues to perform.
I recently rediscovered Mutagenic Growth, and it's a perfect fit for this deck. Does everything I wanted Shoal to do without forcing us into too much blue or putting us back on cards. I've been playing this list for the last couple days and loving it:
Crumble to dust works versus tron, as does ghost quarter, both in slowing them down. The problem is in a lot of ways we want to do the same things as them; get to the late game quickly and go over the top with 5/5's or wurmcoils. Sitting safe behind a bridge also doesnt work when they have NUlamog.
Tron is a difficult matchup. The most success I've had is with chalice on 1 versus their cantrips/eggs and then putting as much pressure on them as possible. Hand disruption would also work, and is also good against fast combo.
Against fast combo, again Chalice slows them down and things like ethersworn canonist work as well, but they can be among our toughest matchups unless you know exactly what you're doing. When it was just twin it was easy because you just kept something up to kill their twin target. I think with the current state of affairs you must really know how the wanky janky combos work such as ad nauseum, Storm, Grishoalbrand etc.
Something I accidentally found out is that painter's servant is a nice card against tron. It doesn't shut down their maps, but it does shut down a lot of their searches. Ancient Stirrings can't find anything, Ugin destroys everything including their stuff, essentially anything they do that looks for colorless things is gone. Pretty narrow tech, it would depend on your meta if you could run it.
The downside to land destruction against tron is two-fold. First, it might not even matter. Turn 3 wurms and karns is tough to beat. Second, while you're durdling with land destruction they keep looking for lands and eventually just get to 6 and cast wurmcoil.
Jund runs curse frequently. Night of souls' betrayal is similar. It depends on your meta. Lots of soul sisters or token? Run them. If thopters or tokens is the main concern something like illness in the ranks is a cheap answer.
I have almost no experience with dredge as an archetype, but I really I'm digging this deck idea. Just out of curiosity, is there no room for cards like a Durmog Angler? How about Reflecting pool or maybe a Drowned Temple?
I'd also be interested in any dredge pro-tips or stories with this list you guys have had already?
The point to dredge is to utilize the graveyard as your hand, potentially getting dudes in play for free. You rarely actually draw cards so you'd need to start with it in hand. The way it cheats mana is different from dredging.
Remove aether vial, play torpor orb or hushwing gryff, remove eldrazi displacer. Flicker is a very frustrating effect, but it takes a few turns for them to get going, so go faster.
I also like the idea of abrupt decay in the 75, but lightning axe will also handle scooze and WW plus it gives us an outlet to throw a dredger in the graveyard.
Yep, but axe doesn't destroy rest in peace, seal of primordium, or ghostly prison. Axe is an enabler but decay answers a bunch of my problems. Just more versatile.
Abrupt decay won't hit opponent's leyline of the void, which nature's claim does. But abrupt decay does hit stuff like scavenging ooze and withered wretch(!?!), of which I lost games to both. You can't avoid everything, but I think this package serves a wide range of matchups. Stony silence was added for relic of progenitus, which I thought I had covered with leyline but was wrong. Turns out it also hoses affinity, lantern, thopter foundry, etc. Still one grudge for the platinum angel matchups.
I like bridge main along with targetted removal rather than smallpox. Trading a card and a land for a spirit token feels bad, when I could be doing something that doesn't set me back. My deck isn't optimized for smallpox though. I'd probably run BW with flagstones and white sideboarding tools.
It underrated because it performs well and has a middling level of popularity. It's share of the overall meta is around 3.5%, not even top ten decks played but it continues to perform.
Is isochron scepter for the attrition based matches? How has that been working out?
Something I accidentally found out is that painter's servant is a nice card against tron. It doesn't shut down their maps, but it does shut down a lot of their searches. Ancient Stirrings can't find anything, Ugin destroys everything including their stuff, essentially anything they do that looks for colorless things is gone. Pretty narrow tech, it would depend on your meta if you could run it.
The downside to land destruction against tron is two-fold. First, it might not even matter. Turn 3 wurms and karns is tough to beat. Second, while you're durdling with land destruction they keep looking for lands and eventually just get to 6 and cast wurmcoil.
The point to dredge is to utilize the graveyard as your hand, potentially getting dudes in play for free. You rarely actually draw cards so you'd need to start with it in hand. The way it cheats mana is different from dredging.
Yep, but axe doesn't destroy rest in peace, seal of primordium, or ghostly prison. Axe is an enabler but decay answers a bunch of my problems. Just more versatile.
3 stony silence
4 leyline of sanctity
3 leyline of the void
1 ancient grudge
3 abrupt decay
1 gnaw to the bone
Abrupt decay won't hit opponent's leyline of the void, which nature's claim does. But abrupt decay does hit stuff like scavenging ooze and withered wretch(!?!), of which I lost games to both. You can't avoid everything, but I think this package serves a wide range of matchups. Stony silence was added for relic of progenitus, which I thought I had covered with leyline but was wrong. Turns out it also hoses affinity, lantern, thopter foundry, etc. Still one grudge for the platinum angel matchups.