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  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Great game (and I did, in fact, win with the town after all). I loved watching the endgame, which must have been one of the most bizarre ever played. Zionite, all of the flavor was truly awesome and the roles were great.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Bah! Go town, I'll be following this and see y'all at the end.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from AsianInvasion
    If tordeck develops a history of being problematic in games of Mafia, he can be modkilled, excluded from future games by their hosts, put on probation, and/or blacklisted. However, none of these are your call to make. If you have a problem with what he's doing, contact Zionite or the Mafia Council and have them deal with him. If you're going vote him for this then you're no better than he is.
    This is the proper solution. I'm getting very sick of Tordeck but we have to deal with him using methods that aren't in-game.

    Quote from Ecophagy
    @HC: Sure, OMT could be Sylar, but looking for a SK - especially this early in the game - isn't all that fruitful an endeavour. I am content to assume he is town for now and look back at him in a day or two.
    I'm content with the same--since as I said I really don't see OMT as scummy--but I don't get this "don't look for the serial killer" logic. Why isn't it fruitful to look for a serial killer this early in the game? I see the best strategy as searching for ALL scum, mafia and SK alike. Finding the SK might be hard this early on, but if we did so it would be a great benefit. Killing Sylar early would be awesome.

    Quote from tordeck
    Scum are always a threat to town, isn't that what this game is about?
    "Scum are bad. That's why you should lynch scum instead of me. Amirite?"

    (lovin' the OMT Tordeck impressions)

    But I'm still not totally convinced by the Tordeck wagon. Yes, it's completely possible he's scum. It's also completely possible he's town. The whole point is he's playing scummily to make himself unreadable. I'm not sure how we handle this. I'll be a little satisfied after he's lynched because there'll be no more of this craplogic filling up the game, but I think his chance of actually turning up scum is only maybe 50-60%. In other words, I don't think we have much of a read on him at all.

    Finally, since it looks like Tordeck is about to be hammered regardless of my opinions on that, I'll give my end of Day 2 impressions (largely based on gut reads, therefore no explanations):

    Town-ish

    Syrenz
    TheIceMan
    Hunted Charlie (duh)
    TACKY
    AsianInvasion

    Neutral-ish

    vezokpiraka
    dropkickdude
    Ecophagy
    OneMoreTime

    Scum-ish

    red_0mega
    tordeck
    Nom_Anor
    Ace

    LURKERS (no read because I don't have enough posts)

    Archmage_Eternal
    StormBlind
    Cyouni
    dracofaust
    Wrath_of_DoG

    And with that, I suppose the Day will probably be over when I come back if TACKY proceeds with his hammer. Hope tordeck comes up scum, regardless of my misgivings.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Ugh. I don't like this at all, my reads are all being screwed up.

    First, to address Tordeck's playing strategy: I think it's already been said, but I think I'll mention again that that strategy is just a terrible way to play this game. I understand where you're coming from but I agree with whoever said that the goal is to play like town all the time, not scum. If you look like scum all the time you'll always be making new tells and getting lynched regardless of your alignment.

    Tordeck's claim is just "Meh." I could believe it, but it's an easy false-claim too. Honestly I'm sorta torn on him: his play has all screamed scum evidence-wise, his claim means nothing, and now my gut is starting to say he's just newbie town who thinks this strategy will actually help him. A little part of me wishes he would get lynched regardless just to get rid of this stupid playstyle, but I'm not a fan of ruining my game for the purposes of meta (which is what Tordeck's doing).

    So long story short: Tordeck's still scummy, but didn't get any scummier. I hate his playstyle and half-wish he would get lynched to teach him a lesson, but I'm not convinced it's really the right play for now.

    Quote from Ecophagy
    I meant more that if sylar takes peter's ability, he can use it to gain other abilities without killing, meaning we don't know what he has gained.
    Hm, good point. I didn't even think of that. I sorta figure though that as a presumed serial killer he'd probably want to kill whenever he can, right?

    Quote from Ecophagy
    1) OMT is incredibly town. For everyone on his wagon, I invite you to go look at:
    #117, wherein he votes joboman well before the wagon took off. coupled with 254 & 256, I see no way that OMT can be mafia. Newb scum don't bus like that. His attempt at analysis in 396 is also indicative of townie scumhunting.
    I think it's important to remember that attacking mafia doesn't mean he's not scum. I think it means pretty obviously that he's not mafia, but he could still be Sylar. Sylar would have no clue whether jobo was mafia or town. I still agree with you on the conclusion that OneMoreTime is town, but we should be careful not to rule him out for the future since Sylar is still a possibility.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    @TheIceMan: Thanks for getting that together. It's a tough case to look at because tordeck has so few posts--but the ones that he has made are undoubtedly scummy. He has done nothing but barn the whole game, and the fact that he appears opportunistically seems to imply that it's not just general lurking. Actually, his play pattern reminds me a lot of red_0mega--but with less content.

    Quote from OneMoreTime
    out of curiosity was he active at all before the end of the jobo lynch? cause if he wasn't then the pattern of wanting other players lynched but then holding off when the one lynched is going to be scum is a pretty big tell.
    Just checked, he made one post in that era, in the middle of the jobo bandwagon. It didn't mention joboman at all. I agree, that's super suspicious.

    Although I do like the case on Tordeck and I support more investigation into him, I still feel the red_0mega case is stronger for the reasons I've outlined earlier. He follows the same play patterns but with more preposterous content to analyze and therefore more evidence against him. So for now my vote stands on red_0mega to encourage more people to look at his wagon. If it becomes clear that there is no chance of the red_0mega wagon going anywhere today, I'll switch it to Tordeck to increase the pressure.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from Ecophagy
    In a way, I'd actually much prefer Sylar not to get his hands on Peter's ability. At least with each kill we know what Sylar has gained.
    Wouldn't we know that Sylar has gained nothing if he kills Peter before Peter gets any abilities? I'm assuming that Cyan would die before having a chance to get anybody else's abilities so we wouldn't have to worry about potential second-hand ability stealing.

    Quote from tordeck
    And sorry bucko but no matter how much you don't like my playstyle I am town through and through. Lynching me will just set us farther in the hole.
    Quote from tordeck
    And I am just stating a hard cold fact. The last thing we need now is another dead townie.
    I can't tell whether this is scummy or just illogical. Obviously we can't trust you saying "I am town". The mafia say that just as well as you do. We're looking for reasoning and evidence to make us believe you.

    I need a re-read on Tordeck to see what I think of this bandwagon. Also, just so y'all know, I'm visiting colleges Monday-Friday for this week and the next. I've got internet access at nights so I'll still be here, but I probably won't have time for in-depth analysis like PBPAs etc.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from AsianInvasion
    This post stood out during a quick reread.

    The comments regarding Hunted Charlie are obsolete, but the discussion of Cyan's suspicions of Ace and red_0mega is worth pursuing.

    Twilight posts immediately preceding the lynch scene:

    It sure looks like Ace wanted Cyan dead to end what certainly would have been an awkward conversation.

    Unvote
    Vote Ace
    That conversation didn't really seem to be going anywhere. Cyan was commenting on a one-line post by Ace that he didn't like. I still am more suspicious of red_0mega until I see a more significant case against Ace than "he's lurking and Cyan was a little suspicious of him"

    @Reviver: If we do have one, the obvious choice should be Peter (Cyan). He's a power role for us (although he does have a large possibility of being NK'd quickly). And since Sylar probably already has an ability much like Peter's, he won't gain any significant power by stealing Peter's ability.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from TACKY
    @HC: What flavor/information do you have about you becoming scum had you picked it?
    Not much flavor-wise. I have one long paragraph that's just pretty much a recap of what happened to Niki/Jessica in the season and how Jessica ended up coming back and haunting Niki, also mentioning Micah/D.L./Hal. Then my next paragraph says that I am both Niki and Jessica. Niki is the good one and her goals are to rebuild her life and be with her family. Jessica will stop at nothing to protect Micah and will even go so far as to work with the villains. At some point I must make a choice between the two.

    Quote from AsianInvasion
    Exactly. Given how much scrutiny he was under Day One I'm sure Hunted Charlie thought a cop investigation was imminent and so wanted to make sure he had a chance of winning. (It sounds like if he were to die before choosing a side, he couldn't win with either town or mafia.)
    Right, my win condition until I made a choice is to use the Choice ability and I obviously couldn't do that if I died. That's why my focus was on surviving and not getting investigated as scum--if I waited to choose and an investigation hit me, I would be lynched. Which would destroy my chances of winning. It really made a lot of sense to choose town.

    Quote from red_0mega
    As has been said, the rules would seem to be a decent reason to assume so. The is no reason to assume that he can use multiple abilities.
    No, there isn't. There's also no reason to assume that he can't. I'm not saying what Sylar can and cannot do, I'm saying that we don't know what Sylar can and cannot do, or how his abilities work. Maybe he saves up one-shot abilities like Peter but could use multiple in a night. Maybe he keeps one ability at a time but keeps it forever. Maybe he really does have Peter's exact ability. The point is we don't know so it's odd that you seemed so certain about his ability.

    Quote from red_0mega
    Yes, obviously it was not a great idea. I am really not sure what else you want me to say.
    You keep saying first that it was a bad idea and you regret it, but then in the same post try to justify your actions with lines like "Why would I listen to the second scummiest person in the game?" Pick one. If you really think that was a bad idea, why do you keep defending it?

    Quote from OneMoreTime
    WOD is actively lurking and making no effort to hide it.
    I think it's worth noting that in my last game with Wrath_of_DoG he played with this exact same pattern, and I believe he was town. Not ruling him out, but it seems like he is just a chronic lurker so I don't think that's much of a tell.

    Quote from OneMoreTime
    Cyan hasn't really been around much but what he says feels like an active contribution, not lurking.
    Although Cyan was lurking earlier, he is now dead. So that's probably why he hasn't been around much lately.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from tordeck
    It happened at the end of the season, I'm not saying he oonly used ther first half i m saying that he more than likly wouldn't use something from the last 5% of the season to build a character/power.
    I don't see the logic here. Why wouldn't he use something from the last 5% of the season? Or the first 5%, for that matter? This kind of speculation isn't even mod-gaming, this is mod-guessing.

    Quote from Nom_Anor
    I don't believe this for a second.
    You threw away your chance at not having to choose town or scum until night 3--when you would have a substantially better idea of who was winning--in exchange for. . .coming up as town on the off chance you were cop investigated on Night 2(when you had a 50/50 chance of showing up as town anyway) but the cop decided not to investigate you on Night 1.
    Think about it: I am a guaranteed suspect to be constantly scrutinized, and the town seems to be in a good position to win. I knew for sure I would end up getting wagoned to claim and at that point I'm left with a few not-particularly-appealing choices: lie (better chance of me getting caught), tell the truth and have the town want to eliminate me as I was essentially a neutral, or lie and say I've already used my ability (leaving me vulnerable to a cop investigation which would prove I'm lying). None of these options sounded good, so I turned town and can now claim truthfully (which I had hoped would help).

    What I suggest: have a cop investigate me tonight. If I come up town, as somebody pointed out there has already been a godfather, so it would mean almost certainly that I am town. Until then, we go after red__0mega who is real scum.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from AsianInvasion
    Choosing town is certainly a mistake if you suddenly think that scum have a better shot at winning. The math is about the same since town:scum is generally 3:1 anyway, but HC's playstyle suggests a relatively low level of guile so him saying this is par for the course.
    Well, one of our dead is Peter (arguably the most powerful hero, except possibly Claire), and Sylar now can't be roleblocked etc., so I still think that was generally a bad night for the town. And there's no reason I can't say that was a mistake. You're not trying to lynch the least satisfied townies, you're trying to lynch the scum.

    Quote from tordeck
    @ai you made my point for me ty. It wasn't until the end of season that nikki figured out how to use her power and to game the mod a little, I can't see zion useing. Fluff from only the end to give a power so if he was in fact nikki he would not be able to use his power until later in the game or not at all.
    It happened in Season 1, this game is about Season 1, I don't see a contradiction. It was from the end but did he ever say that this game only used the first half of Season 1?

    Quote from Nom_Anor
    You're missing my point. He says he chose town because he didn't want to get cop-investigated and have it accidentally show scum.
    However, this doesn't make sense, as by choosing town, he prevent the thing he was using the ability to stop: he could just save the ability for later, when the game had played out more.
    A contradiction.
    I think you must have misunderstood me. After I have used the ability, cop investigations etc. will now always return town. The only thing is that last night, while my ability was working, they still returned random. It's like a one-night delay before the investigations work. The reason I used my ability is because I covered myself from Night 2, 3, 4, etc. cop investigations. Whereas if I waited to use it until Night 2, then Night 2 cop investigations might show me as scum as well. I wanted to clarify this just in case a cop came out and tried to call my lie by saying that they got scum last night. To show that I am not a miller, if any cop has investigated me and turned up scum, feel free to investigate me again tonight and see that I am now fully town.

    Quote from Syrenz
    If you've fulfilled your wincon, now what?
    I win with the town like a normal townie now. If I had chosen Villain-ally I would have won with the mafia (though I wouldn't have been able to participate in the talking/NK, as I confirmed with the mod).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from Nom_Anor
    Also note how different his tone is now than later. He comes out as being very willing to claim. Later, when it's looking like he's going to get out of it, he clams up. Together with his "and I screwed up too" comment, it feels like he was going to claim a power role to try and avoid the lynch, but when things started looking up for him, he decided he didn't need to.
    You are making an association between me not wanting to claim and me being mafia. I follow the pro-town path of claiming only when I am about to be lynched and I need a claim to help me avoid the lynch. Yes, I decided I didn't need to claim when my bandwagon weakened. Because I didn't need to. And claiming when it is not necessary is not good for the town.

    But now I am at L-2 so I will claim.

    I was Niki/Jessica Sanders, Dissociative. My alignment was Hero/Villain-ally. My win condition was to use my Choice ability, a single-shot night action where I could choose either Hero or Villain-ally and my role would change to reflect that. Until then the result of any investigation or anything else that returned an alignment would be randomly chosen. I had to use this ability before Day 4 or I would lose the game. It pretty much meant I had to predict which side would win before Day 4.

    Last night, I realized that I would probably be investigated after Day 1 and I wanted to reduce the chance of an investigation coming up scum, plus since we lynched scum Day 1 it seemed like town was the favorite to win. So I decided to use my Choice ability. I chose "Hero" and was given a new role (although I confirmed that investigations last night would still be given the randomly chosen alignment):

    Now I am Niki Sanders - Dissociative (Hero). My ability is a supernatural one named Super Strength which makes me require an extra vote to be lynched.

    That was also the stupid choice I made last night. After waking up and seeing three town dead including Peter, I wished I had picked Villain-ally.

    To help show that I'm not lying about the role, I want to quote part of Peter's ability:

    Quote from Zionite »
    This ability may also be dangerous, as certain supernatural abilities may change alignment
    So, yes, this is pretty definitely a reference to my ability.

    I have no evidence to show that I didn't actually pick Villain-ally, but if you think about it that would be stupid. I was definitely going to be investigated and we had just lynched scum Day 1 without any town casualties yet. Hero seemed like the logical choice.

    And now I'm town. Slant
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from TACKY
    You're last response is terribad. And your prod on me was well expected. That's why.
    If you condemn me as scum without any specifics on your reasoning, I cannot argue back. This is fine if the goal really is just to lynch me. I will lynch just as well whether or not I am talking. However, if the goal is to produce a debate that will increase the town's chance of accurately finding and lynching scum, this is not acceptable. Since you probably want to lynch scum and not just lynch me regardless of my alignment, some reasoning is probably best. Debate is good. Debate and discussion produce evidence.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from TACKY
    Unvote

    ReVote Hunted Charlie

    Never should have gone against my D1 thoughts. That's what I get for harboring a WIFOM gnome from the cold with the empty space in my noggin. He pays good rent though...
    Any explanation for the change of heart?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    Quote from Syrenz
    Early mudflinging. Says OMT's post are a distraction from something. He's been asked what this distraction is repeatedly and I believe he has still not answered that. It's just an attack on OMT for no reason.
    I've already dealt with this earlier. It was near the beginning of the game and my argument was not intended to seem as powerful as it obviously came across.

    Quote from Syrenz
    "Jobo was the best possible case at that time." yep it certainly was a great case at that time: "he's barning and staying quiet, maybe he's busy, wagon I suppose?"
    Yes, at the time the jobo wagon was the strongest based on his history of barning, lurking, and fence-sitting. And, if I recall correctly, I was right on that one.

    Quote from Syrenz
    Looking at the tone of the original post, it's a very wishy washy noncommital post. I cannot see the place that would have been meant for the vote he supposedly forgot. Look:

    It just does not feel right at all and he did not intend to have a vote in that post like he implied.
    Right, there's no place where it fit in nicely. That's probably why I forgot to put it in there. And by the way, I think people are incorrectly assuming the question mark after "wagon" makes it noncommittal. If you think about it the way I did it doesn't necessarily mean that. Consider if you call somebody up and say "Party tonight?". That's not a weak way of saying it, it's just a different way of phrasing.

    Quote from Syrenz
    Hunted Charlie is now pursuing the RO wagon with terrible logic to say that RO is Sylar and get a lynch that is not himself. Like seriously:

    This is so terrible it hurts. Was there a reason you completely ignored Ecophagy's explanation a couple posts above?
    I don't understand how three words indicating agreement with a post can be "so terrible it hurts", especially since I DID address Ecophagy's explanation. Explain?

    Quote from Syrenz
    nvm, you responded to that. With even worse of an argument.
    Please tell me how what I said was in any way logically inaccurate. Calling anything I say a bad argument doesn't make it true. The mod said that one ability could be used each day, except if he says otherwise. And he could well have said otherwise. Therefore we still know nothing about Sylar's ability (besides that he is almost certainly a power-stealing serial killer). What is wrong with this argument?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on [Normal Game] Heroes Mafia - Volume I Concluded
    @OneMoreTime wagon: I agree all of this ambiguity regarding my case is suspect. However it looks like a one-point wagon, nobody is pulling out any other evidence against him. Therefore I think we should let this rest, unless he does something else which makes a case against him more substantial.

    Quote from red_0mega
    Wrong. No matter how many abilities he takes, he can still only use one per Night and he is still alone. The mafia have multiple actions and are able to coordinate them. Therefore as long as there is likely to be several of them left out there I would definitely rather concentrate on them.
    Where are you getting this? There is no reason to assume that he can only use one per night, that was what Peter could do but they don't necessarily have the same role. And by the way, you don't know how many actions the mafia have (ever heard of "vanilla mafia"?). So this is a terrible argument. If we kill Sylar today, there will be one less nightkill tonight. If we kill a mafia member today, there will be the same number of nightkills. So it makes the most sense to kill Sylar early.

    Quote from red_0mega
    If I get lynched it will have been all of you who has removed a town player.
    This is pretty much just a play on our emotions. If you get lynched, we will probably have eliminated Sylar.

    Quote from red_0mega
    Yes, I agreed with TACKY and voted. If people agree with this PBPA and vote for me would you call them scummy?

    [...]

    The fact that your counter-arguments were weak (I am not the only one who said so) IS content to support my vote. As was TACKY's PBPA.
    Well, if you don't tell us WHY TACKY's PBPA was strong or WHY you didn't think my counter-arguments were valid, the discussion won't go anywhere. Respond to my points if you don't like them. The town thrives on discussion; a debate goes nowhere if most participants just say "I agree" or "I disagree".

    Quote from red_0mega
    "Aggression" is not a scum tell.
    Not necessarily, but scum do tend to be aggressive to try to get a quicker lynch. Because again, night-time is the scum's domain.

    Quote from red_0mega
    Again, why should I bother to listen to the second scummiest person in the game?
    Again, you are deflecting attention away from yourself to avoid dealing with suspicion. It doesn't matter what you think of me, my arguments can still be just as valid and it doesn't help the town to tune me out after you give me your initial judgment.

    I admitted that it was probably a bad idea. Nothing I can do about it now.

    Quote from red_0mega
    You forgot my hammer vote, you know, your entire case. Nice.
    A decent PBPA and a poor response. What more would you like?
    Yes, I forgot the hammer vote in that list. Does not change the argument at all. If you think the PBPA was decent and my response was poor, please go ahead and explain point-by-point why my logic is faulty.

    Quote from red_0mega
    Warned not to by someone I was convinced was scum.
    So? Use logic. There is no reason that not hammering jobo right then could have helped the scum. All that would have happened is we would have had more time for discussion.

    Quote from red_0mega
    TL;DR: I doubt that I am going to be able to get through to these tunnel-visioned, one-point-wonders, so go ahead and put me into claim range and hopefully that will do it. N
    ot that I want to claim, but if it will get these people off of my back...
    Again, you are trying to play the town's emotions. "I'm really really town guys, and I know you don't want me to claim..."

    Quote from vezokpiraka
    Epic slip. How can you know what Sylar can do with his abilities?

    Please lynch this guy.

    Also you're entire not look for sylar is wrong. You see if we lynch Sylar there is one less kill. If we try to lynch the mafia then we need at least 3-5 days.
    Perfect explanation, agreed.

    Quote from Ecophagy
    Hey Vezo! Look!
    It says players cannot use more than one ability per night unless he states otherwise. Sylar could easily be that exception. The point is we don't know, so how does red_0mega?
    Posted in: Mafia
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