- Hunted Charlie
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Member for 16 years and 4 months
Last active Fri, Dec, 10 2010 23:47:20
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Aug 4, 2010Great game (and I did, in fact, win with the town after all). I loved watching the endgame, which must have been one of the most bizarre ever played. Zionite, all of the flavor was truly awesome and the roles were great.Posted in: Mafia
Jun 16, 2010Posted in: Mafia
This is the proper solution. I'm getting very sick of Tordeck but we have to deal with him using methods that aren't in-game.
I'm content with the same--since as I said I really don't see OMT as scummy--but I don't get this "don't look for the serial killer" logic. Why isn't it fruitful to look for a serial killer this early in the game? I see the best strategy as searching for ALL scum, mafia and SK alike. Finding the SK might be hard this early on, but if we did so it would be a great benefit. Killing Sylar early would be awesome.
"Scum are bad. That's why you should lynch scum instead of me. Amirite?"
(lovin' the OMT Tordeck impressions)
But I'm still not totally convinced by the Tordeck wagon. Yes, it's completely possible he's scum. It's also completely possible he's town. The whole point is he's playing scummily to make himself unreadable. I'm not sure how we handle this. I'll be a little satisfied after he's lynched because there'll be no more of this craplogic filling up the game, but I think his chance of actually turning up scum is only maybe 50-60%. In other words, I don't think we have much of a read on him at all.
Finally, since it looks like Tordeck is about to be hammered regardless of my opinions on that, I'll give my end of Day 2 impressions (largely based on gut reads, therefore no explanations):
Hunted Charlie (duh)
LURKERS (no read because I don't have enough posts)
And with that, I suppose the Day will probably be over when I come back if TACKY proceeds with his hammer. Hope tordeck comes up scum, regardless of my misgivings.
Jun 15, 2010Ugh. I don't like this at all, my reads are all being screwed up.Posted in: Mafia
First, to address Tordeck's playing strategy: I think it's already been said, but I think I'll mention again that that strategy is just a terrible way to play this game. I understand where you're coming from but I agree with whoever said that the goal is to play like town all the time, not scum. If you look like scum all the time you'll always be making new tells and getting lynched regardless of your alignment.
Tordeck's claim is just "Meh." I could believe it, but it's an easy false-claim too. Honestly I'm sorta torn on him: his play has all screamed scum evidence-wise, his claim means nothing, and now my gut is starting to say he's just newbie town who thinks this strategy will actually help him. A little part of me wishes he would get lynched regardless just to get rid of this stupid playstyle, but I'm not a fan of ruining my game for the purposes of meta (which is what Tordeck's doing).
So long story short: Tordeck's still scummy, but didn't get any scummier. I hate his playstyle and half-wish he would get lynched to teach him a lesson, but I'm not convinced it's really the right play for now.
Hm, good point. I didn't even think of that. I sorta figure though that as a presumed serial killer he'd probably want to kill whenever he can, right?
Jun 15, 2010@TheIceMan: Thanks for getting that together. It's a tough case to look at because tordeck has so few posts--but the ones that he has made are undoubtedly scummy. He has done nothing but barn the whole game, and the fact that he appears opportunistically seems to imply that it's not just general lurking. Actually, his play pattern reminds me a lot of red_0mega--but with less content.Posted in: Mafia
Just checked, he made one post in that era, in the middle of the jobo bandwagon. It didn't mention joboman at all. I agree, that's super suspicious.
Although I do like the case on Tordeck and I support more investigation into him, I still feel the red_0mega case is stronger for the reasons I've outlined earlier. He follows the same play patterns but with more preposterous content to analyze and therefore more evidence against him. So for now my vote stands on red_0mega to encourage more people to look at his wagon. If it becomes clear that there is no chance of the red_0mega wagon going anywhere today, I'll switch it to Tordeck to increase the pressure.
Jun 14, 2010Posted in: Mafia
Wouldn't we know that Sylar has gained nothing if he kills Peter before Peter gets any abilities? I'm assuming that Cyan would die before having a chance to get anybody else's abilities so we wouldn't have to worry about potential second-hand ability stealing.
I can't tell whether this is scummy or just illogical. Obviously we can't trust you saying "I am town". The mafia say that just as well as you do. We're looking for reasoning and evidence to make us believe you.
I need a re-read on Tordeck to see what I think of this bandwagon. Also, just so y'all know, I'm visiting colleges Monday-Friday for this week and the next. I've got internet access at nights so I'll still be here, but I probably won't have time for in-depth analysis like PBPAs etc.
Jun 13, 2010Posted in: Mafia
That conversation didn't really seem to be going anywhere. Cyan was commenting on a one-line post by Ace that he didn't like. I still am more suspicious of red_0mega until I see a more significant case against Ace than "he's lurking and Cyan was a little suspicious of him"
The comments regarding Hunted Charlie are obsolete, but the discussion of Cyan's suspicions of Ace and red_0mega is worth pursuing.
Twilight posts immediately preceding the lynch scene:
It sure looks like Ace wanted Cyan dead to end what certainly would have been an awkward conversation.
@Reviver: If we do have one, the obvious choice should be Peter (Cyan). He's a power role for us (although he does have a large possibility of being NK'd quickly). And since Sylar probably already has an ability much like Peter's, he won't gain any significant power by stealing Peter's ability.
Jun 12, 2010Posted in: Mafia
Not much flavor-wise. I have one long paragraph that's just pretty much a recap of what happened to Niki/Jessica in the season and how Jessica ended up coming back and haunting Niki, also mentioning Micah/D.L./Hal. Then my next paragraph says that I am both Niki and Jessica. Niki is the good one and her goals are to rebuild her life and be with her family. Jessica will stop at nothing to protect Micah and will even go so far as to work with the villains. At some point I must make a choice between the two.
Right, my win condition until I made a choice is to use the Choice ability and I obviously couldn't do that if I died. That's why my focus was on surviving and not getting investigated as scum--if I waited to choose and an investigation hit me, I would be lynched. Which would destroy my chances of winning. It really made a lot of sense to choose town.
No, there isn't. There's also no reason to assume that he can't. I'm not saying what Sylar can and cannot do, I'm saying that we don't know what Sylar can and cannot do, or how his abilities work. Maybe he saves up one-shot abilities like Peter but could use multiple in a night. Maybe he keeps one ability at a time but keeps it forever. Maybe he really does have Peter's exact ability. The point is we don't know so it's odd that you seemed so certain about his ability.
You keep saying first that it was a bad idea and you regret it, but then in the same post try to justify your actions with lines like "Why would I listen to the second scummiest person in the game?" Pick one. If you really think that was a bad idea, why do you keep defending it?
I think it's worth noting that in my last game with Wrath_of_DoG he played with this exact same pattern, and I believe he was town. Not ruling him out, but it seems like he is just a chronic lurker so I don't think that's much of a tell.
Although Cyan was lurking earlier, he is now dead. So that's probably why he hasn't been around much lately.
Jun 11, 2010Posted in: Mafia
I don't see the logic here. Why wouldn't he use something from the last 5% of the season? Or the first 5%, for that matter? This kind of speculation isn't even mod-gaming, this is mod-guessing.
Think about it: I am a guaranteed suspect to be constantly scrutinized, and the town seems to be in a good position to win. I knew for sure I would end up getting wagoned to claim and at that point I'm left with a few not-particularly-appealing choices: lie (better chance of me getting caught), tell the truth and have the town want to eliminate me as I was essentially a neutral, or lie and say I've already used my ability (leaving me vulnerable to a cop investigation which would prove I'm lying). None of these options sounded good, so I turned town and can now claim truthfully (which I had hoped would help).
You threw away your chance at not having to choose town or scum until night 3--when you would have a substantially better idea of who was winning--in exchange for. . .coming up as town on the off chance you were cop investigated on Night 2(when you had a 50/50 chance of showing up as town anyway) but the cop decided not to investigate you on Night 1.
What I suggest: have a cop investigate me tonight. If I come up town, as somebody pointed out there has already been a godfather, so it would mean almost certainly that I am town. Until then, we go after red__0mega who is real scum.
Jun 11, 2010Posted in: Mafia
Well, one of our dead is Peter (arguably the most powerful hero, except possibly Claire), and Sylar now can't be roleblocked etc., so I still think that was generally a bad night for the town. And there's no reason I can't say that was a mistake. You're not trying to lynch the least satisfied townies, you're trying to lynch the scum.
It happened in Season 1, this game is about Season 1, I don't see a contradiction. It was from the end but did he ever say that this game only used the first half of Season 1?
I think you must have misunderstood me. After I have used the ability, cop investigations etc. will now always return town. The only thing is that last night, while my ability was working, they still returned random. It's like a one-night delay before the investigations work. The reason I used my ability is because I covered myself from Night 2, 3, 4, etc. cop investigations. Whereas if I waited to use it until Night 2, then Night 2 cop investigations might show me as scum as well. I wanted to clarify this just in case a cop came out and tried to call my lie by saying that they got scum last night. To show that I am not a miller, if any cop has investigated me and turned up scum, feel free to investigate me again tonight and see that I am now fully town.
However, this doesn't make sense, as by choosing town, he prevent the thing he was using the ability to stop: he could just save the ability for later, when the game had played out more.
I win with the town like a normal townie now. If I had chosen Villain-ally I would have won with the mafia (though I wouldn't have been able to participate in the talking/NK, as I confirmed with the mod).
Jun 11, 2010Posted in: Mafia
You are making an association between me not wanting to claim and me being mafia. I follow the pro-town path of claiming only when I am about to be lynched and I need a claim to help me avoid the lynch. Yes, I decided I didn't need to claim when my bandwagon weakened. Because I didn't need to. And claiming when it is not necessary is not good for the town.
But now I am at L-2 so I will claim.
I was Niki/Jessica Sanders, Dissociative. My alignment was Hero/Villain-ally. My win condition was to use my Choice ability, a single-shot night action where I could choose either Hero or Villain-ally and my role would change to reflect that. Until then the result of any investigation or anything else that returned an alignment would be randomly chosen. I had to use this ability before Day 4 or I would lose the game. It pretty much meant I had to predict which side would win before Day 4.
Last night, I realized that I would probably be investigated after Day 1 and I wanted to reduce the chance of an investigation coming up scum, plus since we lynched scum Day 1 it seemed like town was the favorite to win. So I decided to use my Choice ability. I chose "Hero" and was given a new role (although I confirmed that investigations last night would still be given the randomly chosen alignment):
Now I am Niki Sanders - Dissociative (Hero). My ability is a supernatural one named Super Strength which makes me require an extra vote to be lynched.
That was also the stupid choice I made last night. After waking up and seeing three town dead including Peter, I wished I had picked Villain-ally.
To help show that I'm not lying about the role, I want to quote part of Peter's ability:
So, yes, this is pretty definitely a reference to my ability.Quote from Zionite »This ability may also be dangerous, as certain supernatural abilities may change alignment
I have no evidence to show that I didn't actually pick Villain-ally, but if you think about it that would be stupid. I was definitely going to be investigated and we had just lynched scum Day 1 without any town casualties yet. Hero seemed like the logical choice.
And now I'm town.
Jun 10, 2010Posted in: Mafia
If you condemn me as scum without any specifics on your reasoning, I cannot argue back. This is fine if the goal really is just to lynch me. I will lynch just as well whether or not I am talking. However, if the goal is to produce a debate that will increase the town's chance of accurately finding and lynching scum, this is not acceptable. Since you probably want to lynch scum and not just lynch me regardless of my alignment, some reasoning is probably best. Debate is good. Debate and discussion produce evidence.
Jun 10, 2010Posted in: Mafia
Any explanation for the change of heart?
ReVote Hunted Charlie
Never should have gone against my D1 thoughts. That's what I get for harboring a WIFOM gnome from the cold with the empty space in my noggin. He pays good rent though...
Jun 10, 2010Posted in: Mafia
I've already dealt with this earlier. It was near the beginning of the game and my argument was not intended to seem as powerful as it obviously came across.
Yes, at the time the jobo wagon was the strongest based on his history of barning, lurking, and fence-sitting. And, if I recall correctly, I was right on that one.
Right, there's no place where it fit in nicely. That's probably why I forgot to put it in there. And by the way, I think people are incorrectly assuming the question mark after "wagon" makes it noncommittal. If you think about it the way I did it doesn't necessarily mean that. Consider if you call somebody up and say "Party tonight?". That's not a weak way of saying it, it's just a different way of phrasing.
It just does not feel right at all and he did not intend to have a vote in that post like he implied.
I don't understand how three words indicating agreement with a post can be "so terrible it hurts", especially since I DID address Ecophagy's explanation. Explain?
This is so terrible it hurts. Was there a reason you completely ignored Ecophagy's explanation a couple posts above?
Please tell me how what I said was in any way logically inaccurate. Calling anything I say a bad argument doesn't make it true. The mod said that one ability could be used each day, except if he says otherwise. And he could well have said otherwise. Therefore we still know nothing about Sylar's ability (besides that he is almost certainly a power-stealing serial killer). What is wrong with this argument?
Jun 10, 2010@OneMoreTime wagon: I agree all of this ambiguity regarding my case is suspect. However it looks like a one-point wagon, nobody is pulling out any other evidence against him. Therefore I think we should let this rest, unless he does something else which makes a case against him more substantial.Posted in: Mafia
Where are you getting this? There is no reason to assume that he can only use one per night, that was what Peter could do but they don't necessarily have the same role. And by the way, you don't know how many actions the mafia have (ever heard of "vanilla mafia"?). So this is a terrible argument. If we kill Sylar today, there will be one less nightkill tonight. If we kill a mafia member today, there will be the same number of nightkills. So it makes the most sense to kill Sylar early.
This is pretty much just a play on our emotions. If you get lynched, we will probably have eliminated Sylar.
Well, if you don't tell us WHY TACKY's PBPA was strong or WHY you didn't think my counter-arguments were valid, the discussion won't go anywhere. Respond to my points if you don't like them. The town thrives on discussion; a debate goes nowhere if most participants just say "I agree" or "I disagree".
The fact that your counter-arguments were weak (I am not the only one who said so) IS content to support my vote. As was TACKY's PBPA.
Not necessarily, but scum do tend to be aggressive to try to get a quicker lynch. Because again, night-time is the scum's domain.
Again, you are deflecting attention away from yourself to avoid dealing with suspicion. It doesn't matter what you think of me, my arguments can still be just as valid and it doesn't help the town to tune me out after you give me your initial judgment.
I admitted that it was probably a bad idea. Nothing I can do about it now.
Yes, I forgot the hammer vote in that list. Does not change the argument at all. If you think the PBPA was decent and my response was poor, please go ahead and explain point-by-point why my logic is faulty.
A decent PBPA and a poor response. What more would you like?
So? Use logic. There is no reason that not hammering jobo right then could have helped the scum. All that would have happened is we would have had more time for discussion.
Again, you are trying to play the town's emotions. "I'm really really town guys, and I know you don't want me to claim..."
ot that I want to claim, but if it will get these people off of my back...
Perfect explanation, agreed.Quote from vezokpirakaEpic slip. How can you know what Sylar can do with his abilities?
Please lynch this guy.
Also you're entire not look for sylar is wrong. You see if we lynch Sylar there is one less kill. If we try to lynch the mafia then we need at least 3-5 days.
It says players cannot use more than one ability per night unless he states otherwise. Sylar could easily be that exception. The point is we don't know, so how does red_0mega?
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