Yes I agree that I am sick of reading the card text of the three cards in this thread over and over. I think they should all just be put in the primer with their basic explanations and then left alone unless someone has something new to say.
Im not saying its an overwhelming majority, but its enough to not cripple yourself in those situations. Playing G means we have a more painful mana base than UR twin. Against Affinity/Burn where we are racing to combo them out, that extra shock damage could often mean game on turn 3/4. Krasis is a very very minimal clock gain in our deck with countless downsides. He doesn't fly, he can't tap or untap lands, and he costs 1UG instead of 2U. If they printed another exarch except his mana was 1UG, it wouldn't even be an argument that he was strictly worse than the 2U version. So why the hell is an argument that Krasis' mana requirement isn't strictly worse than 2U? Jesus.
I think the argument is mostly pointing out how narrow your line of thinking is. Here is the other side of what you are saying. "Sometimes racing decks with damage and burn is literally my only out, and 3/3 body reduces the clock by 4 turns vs an exarch. Why would anyone play a 1/4 when they could play a 3/3?" or "Why play a X/1 when you could be playing X/4 and X/3?"
Also your logic is advocating that we must play 4 splinter twins or even 4 twins and a kiki , we have to combo
I believe it to be rather trivial, the amount of hands where we have twin, krasis, two red sources and no green has to be extremely low. It's basically hands with no forest, breeding pool, stomping ground or any or our 8-9 fetchlands. So we are looking at Island, Island, Sulfur Falls and Steam Vents. It just is a little too small of a chance to be taken that seriously. I'm not going to argue about the validity of this fish guy but we aren't lightly splashing green with are a legit RUG deck.
I don't like Krasis. When it all goes to *****, I want to only need 1 U and 2 R requirements. I don't want to need to find G on top of that when my only chance is to combo off.
Just grab stomping ground when you are going to combo off with him? Whining about having green mana is odd considering this is a RUG thread.
@ Torlash. A poster above or maybe on page 3 has some great initial results with sarkhan unbroken. He does cost one more mana but the upside is drawing cards and making 4/4 fliers. It does warm my heart seeing all the value creatures you are running
I'm in the same boat, on paper (pun totally intended) huntmaster feels like an auto-include because our plan A is beat down and combo'ing is plan B. I realistically need to test with and without him for about 100 matches to even start figuring it out.
For those running teferi, what type of side boarding packages are you using with him? He obviously shines letting splinter twin resolve, but aren't UR twin players boarding out the combo in control mirrors? I'm confused.
Do you guys think Cryptic Command is too slow for the current format?
Sometimes, yes. But for example it's our best card against GBx decks. It is at it's worst against decks packing 1 or 2 mana counterspells.
How many twin targets do you personally use?
I was on 5 recently but, I wanted to untap goyf more so I went to 6
How many splinter twins do you currently use?
I play 3 currently, which might not be the best considering my 6 tapper dudes
How many lands?
I have seen dickmann play 21 lands with two probes, so I think I will be fine with 22 lands and 1 probe. The only way I would go to 23 is if we were probeless but I believe that would be a mistake.
Even adjusting for dual lands and sideboards, Legacy decks remain much more expensive than Modern ones. The most expensive tier 1 Modern decks are still only barely more expensive than the cheapest tier 1 Legacy deck, and every other Legacy deck is more expensive than that. Although there are other ways to slice up the data, this initial analysis strongly suggests that Modern's rising prices still don't put format cost anywhere close to Legacy's.
Where's storm? That's cheaper than most modern decks and 100% a top tier deck. Or elves.
Even legacy Jund is a respectable deck.
Unfortunately for Storm players, it's 100% not a top-tier deck by almost any metric you can use. Nor Elves. Nor Jund in Legacy. This is just an analysis of the tier 1 decks in each format, not the tier 2 or tier 3 decks.
I would be really hesitant to be using these "tiers" for legacy. There are just too many decks that show up in T8's too randomly. You would get roflstomped if your 75 didn't account for decks like MUD, Dredge, Storm and Elves. They are all decks people play with and against at their LGS all the time. I am also saying that half of your picks where just FoW + Wasteland + Dual decks, most of which had goyfs in it. And ya all these fair decks that are just extensions of standard and modern decks see more play because grinders can pick up decks like delver/stoneblade and say "I know what these do." But to promote modern and discourage legacy through statistics with bad perimeters is pretty dishonest.
Hangarback Walker is going up. I bought mines in pre-sale for 0,75 euros each. It is currently at 4 euros, going up fast, at MagicCardMarket.eu. It looks like this card will see play in Affinity. I'm going to start testing mines immediately on paper, I guess 3 is the right number if you want to run them. They do look better than Overseer in many MUs and the synergy with Ravager is obviously brilliant. I'll get back to you after some good testing.
I bought in at .99 cents and got out at 6 dollars. Still sitting on my japanese and japanese foils though.
Even adjusting for dual lands and sideboards, Legacy decks remain much more expensive than Modern ones. The most expensive tier 1 Modern decks are still only barely more expensive than the cheapest tier 1 Legacy deck, and every other Legacy deck is more expensive than that. Although there are other ways to slice up the data, this initial analysis strongly suggests that Modern's rising prices still don't put format cost anywhere close to Legacy's.
Where's storm? That's cheaper than most modern decks and 100% a top tier deck. Or elves.
I'd like to quote one of the first lines of the IPGs (the document which guides Magic Judges' way of solving these kind of issues at Competitive events).
"If a minor violation is quickly handled by the players to their mutual satisfaction, a judge does not need to intervene."
So don't lose your sleep.
Please note the minor violation wording. Do not try to solve yourself a Ponder which became a Brainstorm for example, or shuffling your hand into your library (I swear, it happens). But a Spreading Seas who forgot its way to the graveyard and wasn't really affecting anything? Sure, be my guest.
And yes, "I better not call the judge or I may got a Game Loss" is A Very Bad Thing. Other than the obvious ethical fail, you not only risk of getting Disqualified from the event, but also Suspended from further events. If you mess up, just bear the responsibility of your actions and face eventual consequences (which range from a "silly boy!" to a Warning to a Game Loss), exactly like when you misplay and lose a creature, or a game, or a match.
It's just a game. Keep it fair, keep it fun!
-Will, L2 Judge
Thank God someone has sense in this thread. Spreading Seas is a weird card, it's not that often that your land is enchanted. Honestly game losses for stuff like that is pointless and trivial. It is easy to tell the difference between someone trying to cheat and someone just forgetting things. Just play the game.
My old list is a couple pages back, I started 0-2 at a pptq and ended up 3-2.
R1 Elves 1-2
G1 I twinned him
G2 I would have won on T4 but he did instead
G3 I mulled a 6 land, bolt hand, into a 0 lander and kept Breeding Pool, Island, Roast, Bolt, Pestermite... I lost.
R2 Naya Zoo 0-2
I make noticable mistakes in both games and am outplayed.
R3 Mardu Land Destruction 2-0
I just countered his spells and let as many helixs and bolts hit me as he wanted.
R4 Grixis Twin 2-1
G1 I T5 twin him with dispel and snare back up
G2 I keep a 2 land no visions hand with all cheap blue interaction and stumble on land and never caught up
G3 I noticed in G2 he brought in blood moon so I took mine out and we both were stuck on 2 islands and 1 swamp/forest it takes forever and I finally slam a keranos.
R5 Infect 2-1
I killed his stuff and turned goyf sideways.
I definitely saw the value of the second cryptic command. As you can see I am dropping huntmaster, I feel there is a high chance I just am not familiar enough with the deck to play him in my 75. I cut a probe because I felt like the cheap interaction is worth more than trying to ensure the T2 2/3 goyf. I tried 3 blood moons and it made me vomit seeing two in my opener against zoo, which in hindsight I don't think I even bring any in, anyways I think 2 is optimal.
I think the argument is mostly pointing out how narrow your line of thinking is. Here is the other side of what you are saying. "Sometimes racing decks with damage and burn is literally my only out, and 3/3 body reduces the clock by 4 turns vs an exarch. Why would anyone play a 1/4 when they could play a 3/3?" or "Why play a X/1 when you could be playing X/4 and X/3?"
Also your logic is advocating that we must play 4 splinter twins or even 4 twins and a kiki , we have to combo
Just grab stomping ground when you are going to combo off with him? Whining about having green mana is odd considering this is a RUG thread.
@ Torlash. A poster above or maybe on page 3 has some great initial results with sarkhan unbroken. He does cost one more mana but the upside is drawing cards and making 4/4 fliers. It does warm my heart seeing all the value creatures you are running
Sometimes, yes. But for example it's our best card against GBx decks. It is at it's worst against decks packing 1 or 2 mana counterspells.
How many twin targets do you personally use?
I was on 5 recently but, I wanted to untap goyf more so I went to 6
How many splinter twins do you currently use?
I play 3 currently, which might not be the best considering my 6 tapper dudes
How many lands?
I have seen dickmann play 21 lands with two probes, so I think I will be fine with 22 lands and 1 probe. The only way I would go to 23 is if we were probeless but I believe that would be a mistake.
I would be really hesitant to be using these "tiers" for legacy. There are just too many decks that show up in T8's too randomly. You would get roflstomped if your 75 didn't account for decks like MUD, Dredge, Storm and Elves. They are all decks people play with and against at their LGS all the time. I am also saying that half of your picks where just FoW + Wasteland + Dual decks, most of which had goyfs in it. And ya all these fair decks that are just extensions of standard and modern decks see more play because grinders can pick up decks like delver/stoneblade and say "I know what these do." But to promote modern and discourage legacy through statistics with bad perimeters is pretty dishonest.
I bought in at .99 cents and got out at 6 dollars. Still sitting on my japanese and japanese foils though.
Where's storm? That's cheaper than most modern decks and 100% a top tier deck. Or elves.
Even legacy Jund is a respectable deck.
Thank God someone has sense in this thread. Spreading Seas is a weird card, it's not that often that your land is enchanted. Honestly game losses for stuff like that is pointless and trivial. It is easy to tell the difference between someone trying to cheat and someone just forgetting things. Just play the game.
R1 Elves 1-2
G1 I twinned him
G2 I would have won on T4 but he did instead
G3 I mulled a 6 land, bolt hand, into a 0 lander and kept Breeding Pool, Island, Roast, Bolt, Pestermite... I lost.
R2 Naya Zoo 0-2
I make noticable mistakes in both games and am outplayed.
R3 Mardu Land Destruction 2-0
I just countered his spells and let as many helixs and bolts hit me as he wanted.
R4 Grixis Twin 2-1
G1 I T5 twin him with dispel and snare back up
G2 I keep a 2 land no visions hand with all cheap blue interaction and stumble on land and never caught up
G3 I noticed in G2 he brought in blood moon so I took mine out and we both were stuck on 2 islands and 1 swamp/forest it takes forever and I finally slam a keranos.
R5 Infect 2-1
I killed his stuff and turned goyf sideways.
Here is my next version:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Ghost Quarter
//Creatures [15]
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Pestermite
3 Deceiver Exarch
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
1 Dispel
1 Spell Snare
1 Roast
1 Electrolyze
2 Gixatian Probe
//Enchantment [3]
3 Splinter Twin
1 Dispel
2 Blood Moon
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Nature's Claim
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Pyroclasm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Spellskite
I definitely saw the value of the second cryptic command. As you can see I am dropping huntmaster, I feel there is a high chance I just am not familiar enough with the deck to play him in my 75. I cut a probe because I felt like the cheap interaction is worth more than trying to ensure the T2 2/3 goyf. I tried 3 blood moons and it made me vomit seeing two in my opener against zoo, which in hindsight I don't think I even bring any in, anyways I think 2 is optimal.