I've warmed up to Hoarding Dragon a little bit after more testing, but I still don't think there's room for it in the deck. I think Ral is probably a good 1 or 2-of.
The UR version still has a lot of consistency issues, which is one of the reasons I'm running UW. I think that's the first thing we need to solve if UR is going to work.
Consistency of mana, plus more targets for indestructible 5/5 is why I had Darksteel Ingot in my build. Here is the current version. I'm expecting upset at a lack of Springleaf Drum. If Ral Zarek, Thassa and the Ingots don't pan out, real easy to flip the Springleaf Drums in.
I don't care if Thassa never activates, the scry and being able to make people unblockable repeatedly is enough. Same reason for the lone Rogue's Passage. Alternately, replace Temples w/a pair each of Islands and Mountains
As to Dredge being called that in standard, the idea is still the same. Fill your GY w guys, bring them back and wail on your opponent. *shrug* doubt we will see Dredge back, esp as a 5 or 6
Keranos is really bad here, mainly because the opponent should be dead by the time it actually does anything. Ral Zarek is an interesting innovation, and maybe something worth trying, mainly because of his -2. I can't really see us using his +1 very often, but when you look at Ral as a Lightning Bolt and a Rift Bolt tacked onto one card, he's at least decent. Darksteel Ingot is MUCH worse than Springleaf Drum, and should never be played over it.
Like I said, I hadn't gotten to shuffle anything up yet and wasn't anticipating it being as fast a deck as it is turning out to be capable of. The Ingot was there to give more options of 5/5 indestructibility while also fixing mana as a secondary bonus. Elixir was also from not expecting the speed of the deck and hey, never hurts to shuffle stuff back into the deck if counters or removal were heavy.
Darksteel Ingot is another indestructible target for Ensoul and it helps w/the mana. There are really very few colored cards in the deck. I'm pondering Rogue's Passage instead of Temple of Epiphany. Radiant Fountain b/c I just have the feeling I will be taking some decent damage from my opponent and I need the time to get everything together. Sliver Constructs, I was just looking for more artifact creatures and didn't want to use Bronze Sable Plus when (not if since it's only valid for 2 months) people play Slivers, we get some benefit from their plays.
I went really heavy on the artifacts so there is always a valid target for Shrapnel Blast, but this way we also have 21 creatures and 3 Gods. I don't really care if they never go live, I'm mostly worried about the bonuses they provide. Plus Mutavaults and we will be making some creatures w/Ensoul along the way.
I had posted this earlier tonite on one of the other Affinity threads before reading this one. No testing yet, I just made it up at work today b/c a friend of mine was starting to talk up the idea. Looks like the build is going a bit more aggro, which I'm a fan of. Things like Sligh were always in my wheelhouse and I've been playing w/Madcap Skills a lot lately. Ral could tap one of their blockers, then untap something U already tapped for convoke to let U cast more stuff and worst case, he bolts things. Keranos is card draw or a bolt every turn and w/only 21 lands, he's more likely to bolt things.
Darksteel Ingot is another indestructible target for Ensoul and it helps w/the mana. There are really very few colored cards in the deck. I'm pondering Rogue's Passage instead of Temple of Epiphany. Radiant Fountain b/c I just have the feeling I will be taking some decent damage from my opponent and I need the time to get everything together. Sliver Constructs, I was just looking for more artifact creatures and didn't want to use Bronze Sable Plus when (not if since it's only valid for 2 months) people play Slivers, we get some benefit from their plays.
I went really heavy on the artifacts so there is always a valid target for Shrapnel Blast, but this way we also have 21 creatures and 3 Gods. Plus Mutavaults and we will be making some creatures w/Ensoul along the way.
I already built a mono red control deck around Scuttling Doom Engine, about a dozen artifacts total (incl Darksteel Citadel) and Shrapnel Blast. Swing for 6, then sac him to Shrapnel Blast for another 11 is just nuts
I think that SoNP will be really strong and if you get to untap w/him out, you can keep your team safe while you wail on them. SDE will make them very reluctant to use their removal spells and they will turn into dead cards.
I see it as essentially using 2 slots for 1 creature, when I could use those slots for a wider variety of creatures and interaction.
It's less 2 slots for 1 creature and more like 2 extras of every creature you think you may need to solve a problem in the game. Granted, unless you also pack that 5cc double Regrowth, a Monsters shell lacks ways to recur that spell, but it does add a certain degree of flexibility. Entirely probable it isn't right for the deck, just something I wanted to throw out there. I love when a format is new, b/c I get to throw all kinds of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. One of my friends at work is quick to poo poo things and we had a bit of a discussion about it today and I think he finally understands my approach. I'm just trying to remain open to the possibilities of some cards and not just knee jerk "that sucks" (Jace anyone?).
As for Reaper, it's actually one of the best creatures in the colors presently available. In the pre-rotation build they could possibly be Desecration Demon or something, but I don't really want too many BB spells. I do like Soul of New Phyrexia though. So I'll give 1-2 of them a try.
And I'm 100% keeping the Thoughtseizes. They're just too good at dealing with problem cards before the become a problem and for only 1 mana and 2 life.
As for Stain the Mind, I was thinking of it as more of a sideboard card. Especially after rotation when the format is sort of a blunder of what people will be playing.
I'm thinking maybe:
-2 Reaper of the Wilds
+1 Soul of New Phyrexia
+1 Hero's Downfall
Thoughts?
Seems like a plan and I agree completely about limiting the double black slots. I know some of the Jund Monsters would squeeze 1-2 Thoughtseize in sometimes and w/the deck narrowed by a color there could be more space for something like that, I'm just tired of the spell. I even play MBD pretty frequently and I'm still sick of it. Always love when they TS my red aggro deck tho. Help me along and rarely do much to slow me down
The swaps are reasonable and logical. Are we sure you're a Magic player on the internet? heh. Proxy that baby up and run some matches
Also, this dude may be bucking for design space w/the Soul of NP. http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/scuttling-doom-engine/ Something tells me using him w/some way that you can sacrifice him would be amazing. Opponent is down to 6 or less? Devour Flesh your own Scuttling Doom Engine. You gain 6 life, they take 6 damage Sac him to your opponents Desecration Demon. I have 3 boxes of 2015 coming my way, I plan to have several of this guy.
PS I'm stupid. Life's Legacy. Cast Scuttling dude. Tap 2 more mana and sac him to draw 6 cards and hit your opponent for 6 to the dome. Scourge of Skola Vale gets a lot bigger fast too. Tormented Thoughts is probably bad, but gets the large discard of Rakdos's Return at least. Probably venturing away from G/B Monsters now, but it's interesting. I was forgetting about Life's Legacy. I will probably be trying to fit a pair of those in any deck I'm running big dudes. Even better if you already used a Ghor Clan Rampager on someone..like a Monstroused Arbor Colossus. Draw 13 sounds pretty freakin sweet heh.
Seems like a pretty solid stab, but maybe 2 of the Reapers should be Arbor Colossus? Should be pretty easy to cast and monstrous w/all the extra land untapping going on. Arbor also keeps the skies covered since we lack Stormbreaths now. As much aggro as there has been recently, plus just getting tired of seeing the card, you might toss those other cards you wanted in instead of the Thoughtseize. Also, as much as I like Urborg, it isn't Contamination. It won't make your opponents lands only produce black. I realize it's a pain free way to get more black in the deck, but there isn't a ton of black needed in the deck anyway. You only have 1/5 the number of black pips as green once double counting multiple pips for weighting is taken into consideration. (61G vs 12B) Without the Urborg you have 8B vs 23G mana sources. If you drop the TS's for 2 each HD and StM, you only barely increase your black count. If you swap 2 Reaper for 2 Arbor, you're probably right back at the same ratio or slightly more in green's favor.
-2 Reaper of the Wilds
-3 Urborg
-4 Thoughtseize
+2 Arbor Colossus
+3 Forest (maybe 1-2 Llanowar Wastes and the balance forests if you're really worried about the B mana)
+2 Stain the Mind
+2 Hero's Downfall
Also, is there any reason not to try and find room for a couple Chord of Calling? Have a bunch of mana sitting around and need to go grab SOMETHING. Hmm, yeah I could use a Polukranos, here we go. Go grab Reaper, Arbor...whatever will solve the current issue being faced. If we do this, do we try and fit a couple of the new better Uktabi Orangutan Elf to Chord away annoying Banishing Lights or Waste Not or the Veil or whatever ails us?
Personally I would probably make the Reaper slots flex slots in the post-rotation since there are an embarrassment of big green and black creatures we could shove in that space...or Soul of New Phyrexia. Just some ideas, keep up the good work.
LotV and the Onslaught fetch lands aren't in M15, so Wizards can put them all in Modern Masters 2 and watch players frenzy over pre-orders. That's my expectation at this point
Always nice to see the people who can't see the forest for the trees.
Check back on this thread in 4 months when RTR block and 2014 has rotated and Khans is in Standard. Jace will be turning up quite a bit in blue decks. Less likely that he will be the sole PW like AoT or Mind Adept sometimes are, but they are obviously pushing multi-color, and specifically cross-color w/the pain lands, so expect to see cards come out that make what looks questionable on its face turn things on its head and make you wonder how you would be playing without it.
I really don't know how people are even saying the ultimate does nothing. Your deck will have focused on getting lots of permanents in play and setting up the board better than your opponent. Yes, you will both be pulling cards from a thinned deck, but you also have a 7 card advantage after shuffle. I suppose you could draw nothing but lands for those 7, but chances are you will just win after the ultimate.
Feel free to smack me around some if Standard in October is a Jace-free environment, but I really doubt it will be
PS: in before "lol first post". Been playing since summer of 95
Consistency of mana, plus more targets for indestructible 5/5 is why I had Darksteel Ingot in my build. Here is the current version. I'm expecting upset at a lack of Springleaf Drum. If Ral Zarek, Thassa and the Ingots don't pan out, real easy to flip the Springleaf Drums in.
4 Ornithopter
2 Chief Engineer
4 Generator Servant
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Thassa
4 Scuttling Doom Engine
2 Ral Zarek
Spells: 18
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Madcap Skills
3 Lightning Strike
2 Darksteel Ingot
4 Mutavault
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Steamvents
4 Shivan Reef
4 Temple of Epiphany
1 Rogue's Passage
I don't care if Thassa never activates, the scry and being able to make people unblockable repeatedly is enough. Same reason for the lone Rogue's Passage. Alternately, replace Temples w/a pair each of Islands and Mountains
As to Dredge being called that in standard, the idea is still the same. Fill your GY w guys, bring them back and wail on your opponent. *shrug* doubt we will see Dredge back, esp as a 5 or 6
Like I said, I hadn't gotten to shuffle anything up yet and wasn't anticipating it being as fast a deck as it is turning out to be capable of. The Ingot was there to give more options of 5/5 indestructibility while also fixing mana as a secondary bonus. Elixir was also from not expecting the speed of the deck and hey, never hurts to shuffle stuff back into the deck if counters or removal were heavy.
2 Chief Engineer
4 Generator Servant
2 Illusory Angel
Artifact Creatures: 13
4 Ornithopter
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sliver Construct
4 Scuttling Doom Engine
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Ral Zarek
Spells: 8
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Ensoul Artifact
Artifacts: 5
1 Elixir of Immortality
4 Darksteel Ingot
4 Mutavault
4 Radiant Fountain
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
Darksteel Ingot is another indestructible target for Ensoul and it helps w/the mana. There are really very few colored cards in the deck. I'm pondering Rogue's Passage instead of Temple of Epiphany. Radiant Fountain b/c I just have the feeling I will be taking some decent damage from my opponent and I need the time to get everything together. Sliver Constructs, I was just looking for more artifact creatures and didn't want to use Bronze Sable
I went really heavy on the artifacts so there is always a valid target for Shrapnel Blast, but this way we also have 21 creatures and 3 Gods. I don't really care if they never go live, I'm mostly worried about the bonuses they provide. Plus Mutavaults and we will be making some creatures w/Ensoul along the way.
I had posted this earlier tonite on one of the other Affinity threads before reading this one. No testing yet, I just made it up at work today b/c a friend of mine was starting to talk up the idea. Looks like the build is going a bit more aggro, which I'm a fan of. Things like Sligh were always in my wheelhouse and I've been playing w/Madcap Skills a lot lately. Ral could tap one of their blockers, then untap something U already tapped for convoke to let U cast more stuff and worst case, he bolts things. Keranos is card draw or a bolt every turn and w/only 21 lands, he's more likely to bolt things.
More aggro changes:
-1 Elixir
-2 Ingot
-2 Sliver Construct
-2 Angel
+4 Madcap Skills
+3 Lightning Strike
Change manabase completely in that case. Mutavaults and Radiant Fountain go away. Max Epiphany and add some number of Islands and Mountains.
2 Chief Engineer
4 Generator Servant
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sliver Construct
2 Illusory Angel
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Ral Zarek
4 Scuttling Doom Engine
1 Elixir of Immortality
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Darksteel Ingot
4 Mutavault
4 Radiant Fountain
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
1 Temple of Epiphany
Darksteel Ingot is another indestructible target for Ensoul and it helps w/the mana. There are really very few colored cards in the deck. I'm pondering Rogue's Passage instead of Temple of Epiphany. Radiant Fountain b/c I just have the feeling I will be taking some decent damage from my opponent and I need the time to get everything together. Sliver Constructs, I was just looking for more artifact creatures and didn't want to use Bronze Sable
I went really heavy on the artifacts so there is always a valid target for Shrapnel Blast, but this way we also have 21 creatures and 3 Gods. Plus Mutavaults and we will be making some creatures w/Ensoul along the way.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28859_Hunting-For-Hits-In-Magic-2015.html
Creatures (16)
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Polukranos, World Eater
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Garruk, Apex Predator
Lands (24)
4 Forest
4 Swamp
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Mutavault
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple of Malady
Spells (17)
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bile Blight
1 Golgari Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Putrefy
3 Read the Bones
4 Thoughtseiz
I think that SoNP will be really strong and if you get to untap w/him out, you can keep your team safe while you wail on them. SDE will make them very reluctant to use their removal spells and they will turn into dead cards.
6 of one, half dozen of the other
It's less 2 slots for 1 creature and more like 2 extras of every creature you think you may need to solve a problem in the game. Granted, unless you also pack that 5cc double Regrowth, a Monsters shell lacks ways to recur that spell, but it does add a certain degree of flexibility. Entirely probable it isn't right for the deck, just something I wanted to throw out there. I love when a format is new, b/c I get to throw all kinds of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. One of my friends at work is quick to poo poo things and we had a bit of a discussion about it today and I think he finally understands my approach. I'm just trying to remain open to the possibilities of some cards and not just knee jerk "that sucks" (Jace anyone?).
Seems like a plan and I agree completely about limiting the double black slots. I know some of the Jund Monsters would squeeze 1-2 Thoughtseize in sometimes and w/the deck narrowed by a color there could be more space for something like that, I'm just tired of the spell. I even play MBD pretty frequently and I'm still sick of it. Always love when they TS my red aggro deck tho. Help me along and rarely do much to slow me down
The swaps are reasonable and logical. Are we sure you're a Magic player on the internet? heh. Proxy that baby up and run some matches
Also, this dude may be bucking for design space w/the Soul of NP. http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/scuttling-doom-engine/ Something tells me using him w/some way that you can sacrifice him would be amazing. Opponent is down to 6 or less? Devour Flesh your own Scuttling Doom Engine. You gain 6 life, they take 6 damage
PS I'm stupid. Life's Legacy. Cast Scuttling dude. Tap 2 more mana and sac him to draw 6 cards and hit your opponent for 6 to the dome. Scourge of Skola Vale gets a lot bigger fast too. Tormented Thoughts is probably bad, but gets the large discard of Rakdos's Return at least. Probably venturing away from G/B Monsters now, but it's interesting. I was forgetting about Life's Legacy. I will probably be trying to fit a pair of those in any deck I'm running big dudes. Even better if you already used a Ghor Clan Rampager on someone..like a Monstroused Arbor Colossus. Draw 13 sounds pretty freakin sweet heh.
-2 Reaper of the Wilds
-3 Urborg
-4 Thoughtseize
+2 Arbor Colossus
+3 Forest (maybe 1-2 Llanowar Wastes and the balance forests if you're really worried about the B mana)
+2 Stain the Mind
+2 Hero's Downfall
Also, is there any reason not to try and find room for a couple Chord of Calling? Have a bunch of mana sitting around and need to go grab SOMETHING. Hmm, yeah I could use a Polukranos, here we go. Go grab Reaper, Arbor...whatever will solve the current issue being faced. If we do this, do we try and fit a couple of the new better Uktabi Orangutan Elf to Chord away annoying Banishing Lights or Waste Not or the Veil or whatever ails us?
Personally I would probably make the Reaper slots flex slots in the post-rotation since there are an embarrassment of big green and black creatures we could shove in that space...or Soul of New Phyrexia. Just some ideas, keep up the good work.
Check back on this thread in 4 months when RTR block and 2014 has rotated and Khans is in Standard. Jace will be turning up quite a bit in blue decks. Less likely that he will be the sole PW like AoT or Mind Adept sometimes are, but they are obviously pushing multi-color, and specifically cross-color w/the pain lands, so expect to see cards come out that make what looks questionable on its face turn things on its head and make you wonder how you would be playing without it.
I really don't know how people are even saying the ultimate does nothing. Your deck will have focused on getting lots of permanents in play and setting up the board better than your opponent. Yes, you will both be pulling cards from a thinned deck, but you also have a 7 card advantage after shuffle. I suppose you could draw nothing but lands for those 7, but chances are you will just win after the ultimate.
Feel free to smack me around some if Standard in October is a Jace-free environment, but I really doubt it will be
PS: in before "lol first post". Been playing since summer of 95