Dredge is anything but easy. Their Bloodghasts and Amalgams come back no matter how many times you LE. If it was easy for you, you were playing a very poor opponent.
The best thing you can do vs them is Leyline of the Void and pray it sticks.
Out of the 10 games we played vs dredge I won all 10 of them and this was my first time actually playing living end without gold fishing it. I had heard and read that the MU was pretty one sided in favor for them. I just put a ton of creatures in the yard and waited for him to put out a few good creatures so I could cascade. I didn't maximize value of Faerie Macabre I just targeted cards with the dredge mechanic to slow his game plan down. It got to the point he suggested that the matchup is impossible to win for him so he refused to play anymore. Can't confirm if he is bad or not, but he should have a good amount of experience since he has been playing since the unbanning of grave troll.
What exactly were your opponents doing?? Those are both pretty poor MUs for us.
Piloted Living End to 3rd out of 34 with X-1 record Tuesday.
Round 1: Affinity
G1 I knew what he was on going into the game, he's a pretty good player with Affinity foiled out and masterpieced. Been on the deck for a long time. I keep a hand with Copperline, Outburst, 4 R cyclers and a Beast Within. 2nd land doesn't come til t3 after cycling, t4 I miss on land and scoop it up to lethal on board.
G2 I keep a strong hand that's got Chewer, Grip, 3 cyclers, 2 fastland. He mulls to 6, puts 3 memnite inkmoth spring leaf and overseer into play and I cycle Ceradon EOT. Hit my land drop kill Overseer and ship it back. He jams down two signal pest and a ravager, puts me down to 11. EOT I just cycled, untap and draw another fast land, ship it his way. He attacks me down to 7, I grip the Ravager before damage.
I untap and cascade in Main phase to knock him down to just 2 inkmoth for mana (drums aren't worth much now). Put Faerie macabre into play to get rid of the Memnite and Chewer hits a Drum (1 left). He untaps and puts memnite and Master of Ethereum into play. Plays a mox and passes.
I swing out with Ceradon Faerie Chewer and Horror, he blasts Ceradon and takes 9. Passes it back. A few combat phases later he has a 7/7 Master, 2 memnites, and I've got a Fulminator Mage in play. Here he does some blocking that would have blown me out if I didn't have Grip in hand for Master before putting Fulminator to work on an animated Inkmoth. MP2 I cascade and double macabre him for GG.
G3 he mulls to 5 on the play, scry to bottom, puts 3 Ornithopter and a Mox into play. I have 3 fast lands, blackcleave -> Chewer on Mox. He tanks for a few turns before I close it out. He kept a Ravager in hand, scry was 2nd mox to bottom. Could've worked out better for him to not play the first mox, oh well!
2-1, 1-0
Round 2: Elves
Again, I know my opponent pretty well - we've traveled all over the country playing magic together, so I'm intimately familiar with his list (even helped him strategize to beat LE). Thankfully, it's hard to determine which of my 4 decks I'm piloting on any given night, so his t3 36 power of Elves was just a cute sight running into my Outburst bringing back 2 Horror and 1 Architect.
G2 I overboarded badly, he gamed me hard by making a show of adding 9 cards (last week it was an easy 2-0 for me) but he just took 5 right back out. 2 RiP and 2 Relic was all he brought.
OUT: 4 Architects of Will, 2 Fulminator Mage
IN: 2 Krosan Grip, 3 Ingot Chewer, and 1 Anger of the Gods.
My opening hand G2 was great but my first 2 cyclers were the only two I ever saw. Despite that, I managed to beat him down to 4 with 2 macabres and a simian spirit guide after my initial board wipe on t3. His scooze are both of my cyclers off a Chord, so I just tried to beat him down. Eventually I needed to chain 5 cyclers + cascade in order to win, only got 3 and conceded the game.
OUT: 3 Ingot Chewer
IN: 3 Architects of Will
On the play I'd rather have the churn 'n burn of the cyclers, and I didn't see any artifact-based hate G2 but I saw a RiP in his top 3 at one point. I keep a 7-card hand of 2 cascade spells, 1 blackcleave, 2 cyclers, 1 SSG, and 1 Beast Within on the play. Lead with land, he plays heritage Druid, I cycle ceradon, untap -> cycle Horror to find land, play my second land. He untaps and goes off, outs 22 power with an ezuri into play. I cycle, untap, land, cycle ceradon, and cascade MP off SSG for the concession.
4-2, 2-0
Round 3: Gifts Storm
This is a guy I haven't seen before, but I saw him playing during 2nd round. I don't have much of anything in the board for the MU because it usually isn't present at locals (me and 1 other guy have the deck, he wasn't even there) so I just shuffle up and hope he stumbles. T6 I missed my crucial 6th land drop/SSG draw to have double outburst up for killing his dude, he had Remand for it the first time and proceeded to Grapeshot Remand Grapeshot for exact 19.
OUT: 4 Architects of Will
IN: 2 Leyline of the Void 2 Ricochet Trap
I open with a t3 hand, he opens with the remand into t3 of his own. That's all she wrote here!
4-4, 2-1
Round 4: Jeskai Queller
This guy came with the Storm player, they played earlier so I knew his approximate list. I won the roll and lead with a fetch-> shock, pass and he verbally puts me on GDS. He plays a Colonnade tapped and ships it to me, I cycle Horror and untap into a fast land -> SSG -> Fulminator his Colonnade. He keeps hitting land drops but my t3 Fulminator followed by t4 cycle -> cascade -> nuke another land and keep a FulMage up drew the concession.
OUT: 4 Architects of Will, 1 Simian Spirit Guide 3 Street Wraith
IN: 2 Ricochet Trap, 2 Krosan Grip, 3 Ingot Chewers, 1 Bow of Nylea
Going into G2 I know his hate is more likely to be Relic than RiP because he plays 4 snap and his best bet for victory is a bolt-snap-bolt sequence with remand backup and a Relic to maintain.
He keeps a 7 and opens with sacred foundry shock -> Relic, I have a Grip, a land and 4 cyclers in my 6. I play my fetch land, cycle, ship it, he misses the land drop and ships back. He trimmed my fetch out of the yard with RoP, I untap and cycle MP for my 2nd fetch land, crack it to keep my cycler safe from being whittled away, at the end of his turn I cycle horror and untap into my 3rd land. I MP a Grip on the Relic and he just proceeds to scoop, he was going to EOT crack to draw a card searching for the 2nd land. I was going to cascade the next turn for 14 power on board.
6-4, 3-1
Overall the deck feels so powerful in the current meta. No match feels like it's unwinnable, the 2nd MB Beast Within has been a blessing. I'm planning to move a 3rd to the MB once it comes in the mail, it's my only out to Cotv on 0 in G1 and that's just too rampant at my locals. I'm anxious to see how the deck performs as the meta continues to slow down and favor the consistency we bring to the table.
For dredge I kept hitting dredge enablers to slow his plan down significantly while throwing everything in the yard. Once he was slowed down I let him amass a good sized board and wiped it out with a cascaded living end which prior to that I targeted his fetchland at EoT with my fulminator mage so he couldn't get creatures back. This was really the only thing I did.
For storm I really just took kodieyost advice with the piles. This was more of a 30/70 in his favor. I won most games due to just killing his creatures/lands or using the faerie to exile cards. Can't really say much since we didn't play much though. Think we played 5 or 6 games and it was decently evenish just I can tell we are not favored in the slightest. I did like targeting all the non pain based lands when possible.
As for leyline I sold mine when they became expensive never really liked them except the blue one for EDH. I wouldn't use either for either matchup as both imho are good turn 0, but are terrible top decks like a late game ancestral visions when you need a immediate answer. That's just me though.
Sorry it took so long to reply I have been playing legacy with friends as we are preparing for a league and we have not played legacy in a few months.
Playtested against dredge and storm and got wins against them regularly. Dredge seems to be easy when you let your opponent get a board them wipe it out. Storm was awkward for the first few games. Doing well though.
I play a 3/3 split of Fulminator and Faerie because of storm lol Faerie is your best card for them. They often rely heavily on a gifts pile of PiF, Grapeshot, X, Y. You put the grapeshot and PiF in the yard, if they cast anything before PiF you just remove PiF and Grapeshot, if they cast PiF first you hit Gifts and Grapeshot. I've never lost to Storm when I've had Macabres in hand.
SB you bring in Leyline of the Void if you play it, without the GY they cant usually storm for 20 so they have to peck you down slowly... never a good strategy against us lol. They typically play 0-3 Remand so you shouldn't have an issue resolving LE if you EOT cascade, untap and cascade. Or suspend LE.
Best and easiest answer is honestly use your removal on your turn instead of your opponents. It forces them to pump/hexproof the creature which slows them down usually enough to put blockers up or wear them down enough it does not matter in my experience.
Well there's two different decks depending on what you want to do.
1. Death and Taxes - Leonin Arbiter and Ghost Quarters/Field of Ruin
2. RG Ponza - Bunch of LD spells.
Take your pick.
My vote would be death and taxes. Very flexible and fun to play even before becoming popular. Decently cheap as well besides vials since almost everything else has been reprinted a few times. It hoses random decks as well with the disruption package and relatively inexpensive to upgrade into legacy thanks to eternal masters.
Im a big fan of the new cryptic command art think i'll be trading in my current playset for them.
How is lost legacy and pull from tomorrow been for you? i liked playing the cards in standard, but am unsure of how they are for modern.
Has anyone tried using a Big game hunter for SB tech yet?
@EarthcraftElves: I used to play the combo when i missed playing splinter twin, but instead of a 3rd Kiki Jiki i used a Necrotic Ooze as a weaker version of Kiki Jiki, Tasigur, and Fulminator Mage since we play thought scours usually to enable snapcaster and delve. Best thing i ever did was wipe out someones manabase once.
I'm a big fan of this list. Personally, I would probably trade the fourth Bolt for a third Push, but that's such minor change. How has the Removal suit been performing overall as 4/2/2/3 Bolt/Push/Decay/Terminate?
As I stated in my post you are referring to, I have a bunch of Big Mana/Control decks in my meta, where Push just is a dead card. I thought that Bolt could at least go face, and thus tried the full playset. Overall it did not change much for my experience, I guess 3/3 split on Bolt/Push is more even. I do like 2 Decays and 3 Terminate though. Maybe cutting down to 1 Decay can be fine, seems to be the case for popular lists.
This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway ...
Does the number of Fulminators played affect the number of Kolaghan's Command being played. I ask because I am trying out the Blood Moon package, and no Fulminators, so I wonder if two Commands is still necessary?
I will always play at least 1 copy, but I personally think it depends on the meta whether you want more or not. It is indeed a flexible tool that can be great in a lot of ways, but sometimes you want other cards more in your meta. Playing 2 is probably never wrong though. Just jam a few games and see if you like the card or not. You can then cut down on it if you like.
@Flying Delver: in the primer part for bant eldrazi matchups in the planeswalkers removal for other cards you suggested bringing in the very card you removed.
Thats right, thanks for letting me know, I fixed it. I guess it is not as big of a deal nowadays bc there is basically no Bant Eldrazi anymore. But still, the primer should be correct as much as possible.
I only noticed when someone mentioned they were making a Eldrazi deck for my lgs so i took a look at them.
On a side note did you try Goblin Rabble Master yet? Also why are we playing so many quick lands now?
Sorry if im asking too many questions im getting back into the deck after playing grixis control after almost 2 years.
Goblin Rabblemaster won me the first game against Scapeshift yesterday, but only bc I had discard to make my opponents hand slow and clunky, and the hand wasn't the best overall. It basically changed from a 0-2 loss into a 1-2 loss that way. Does not feel revolutionary and great to be honest. I will test him more next week alongside the new PW rule though.
Fastlands contribute to a more painless manabase. I personally am not sure if I want that many Fastlands. But the thing is, I cut one land from the manabase lately (from 24 to 23, which does also not feel quite right, the manabase is a little bit on the inconsistant side of things, which is a little bit too much for my taste) and am not playing 4 drops main. That way you can have painless landrops and have untapped mana to play your 1/2/3 drops. But the thing that bothers me is the fact that jund really goes off when it is able to do multiple things each turn, which just is not that easy with that manabase. Often you can just play one thing a turn and thats it.
Gotta be honest, playing Jund does not feel great anymore these days. One big factor for me to playing this deck is of course fun, but with that pile of sh** called scapeshift around, there is absolutely no fun involved, doesn't matter whether you play with or against it. In 5 rounds of FNM last night, I faced 2 Scapeshift decks.
Well looks definitely more fun i think ill try putting it in for my next modern event as well.
That's unfortunate i really thought the manabase before was honestly good just painful when you fetched badly or stupidly.
Ramp decks really dont exsist in my meta except one gr tron player who has been on control lately. I mostly switched back to jund since i wanted to stop play reactively 100 percent of the time. Also the fact i have jund made it easier to switch just have not played it roughly since dragons of tarkir so playing catchup with some cards i dont own from playing grixis control. Should have it finished soon enough though.
My meta is weird for my LGS as it rarely changes unless someone gets bored or a new deck peaks there interest. For example till recently everyone had been playing the same decks for the last few years till dredge became a deck then shortly after RW Prison. The next change will be our infect player whos looking for a new deck.
This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway ...
Does the number of Fulminators played affect the number of Kolaghan's Command being played. I ask because I am trying out the Blood Moon package, and no Fulminators, so I wonder if two Commands is still necessary?
I will always play at least 1 copy, but I personally think it depends on the meta whether you want more or not. It is indeed a flexible tool that can be great in a lot of ways, but sometimes you want other cards more in your meta. Playing 2 is probably never wrong though. Just jam a few games and see if you like the card or not. You can then cut down on it if you like.
@Flying Delver: in the primer part for bant eldrazi matchups in the planeswalkers removal for other cards you suggested bringing in the very card you removed.
Thats right, thanks for letting me know, I fixed it. I guess it is not as big of a deal nowadays bc there is basically no Bant Eldrazi anymore. But still, the primer should be correct as much as possible.
I only noticed when someone mentioned they were making a Eldrazi deck for my lgs so i took a look at them.
On a side note did you try Goblin Rabble Master yet? Also why are we playing so many quick lands now?
Sorry if im asking too many questions im getting back into the deck after playing grixis control after almost 2 years.
This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway ...
Does the number of Fulminators played affect the number of Kolaghan's Command being played. I ask because I am trying out the Blood Moon package, and no Fulminators, so I wonder if two Commands is still necessary?
My personal belief is dont drop below 2 as it helps in more matchups then just reusing a fulminator mage. Its an amazing card
@Flying Delver: in the primer part for bant eldrazi matchups in the planeswalkers removal for other cards you suggested bringing in the very card you removed.
On a side note i accidentally placed a Sprouting Thrinax in my SB when reaching for 2 jund charms. Turns out it won me the match when we went to top deck wars in a jund vs jund match.
Really? I've found I can really struggle again the turn 2 Thought-Knot, turn 3 Smasher. I think I might also be attacking it from the wrong angle in a lot of games, as I try to go after Tron before Temples, which seems not as good. I've only played it once since adding back Squadron Hawks to chump - is that the game plan you use? Just chump them until you can Wrath and then Ranger into our game plan?
Last night, I lost to it 1-2, getting game one through Crucible lock, losing game 2 to Needle, into Chalice, into Smasher, into Ulamog, (I still had the out, but he flashed All is Dust, I think this data is just warped because he had an absurd god hand) and then losing game 3 since Wayfarer couldn't keep them off of value lands long enough to stop the rush.
Unless I'm already on top of them and I'm confident I can keep the wayfarer engine going I never go out of my way to disrupt their torn lands. Board sweeps, o ring effects on Karen, and proclamation is how I've been winning, also, you weren't playing hawks?
No. They were gone to make room for more late game threats and then flex slots that I was never happy with (Ayli, BW God, Thraben Inspectors, Kami of False Hope.) After seeing your success, I brought them back. This is my list as of right now, with the extra big stuff and Wayfarers in the side:
Do you go out of your way to break their Eldrazi Temples?
Kami of False Hope won me my first game of infect 2-0 when i first picked this deck up and had probably played it twice before that match. Only removal i have MB is 4 Wrath of God, 4 Path to Exile, and 1 Blessed Alliance so i went into the game expecting to lose, but paired with 4 Martyr of Sands and 4 Ghostly Prison i found out as long as i get a early Kami of False Hope i can stall them till i can slam a Prison down then Wrath and usually be in the clear. Prison and Kami also helped me against GR Tron
on a more specific note does anyone other then me run crucible of worlds paired with 4 GQ and 1 Tech Edge?
@BoBoCTiberius: i swear i see you in every other modern thread that i play lmao Do you still play soul sisters as well?
I run Crucible and 4 Ghost Quarter and love it. I've moved away from Kami, though. And yeah, I keep Sisters on stand by in the bag at all times. I really like gaining life.
What enchantment deck are you talking about? The one that kills through Form of the Dragon? I've never struggled against that one and I think Austere Command is probably the better call.
Ya its definitely a powerhouse. I have been playing that combo since playing death and taxes. It also feels more then slightly abusive in this deck. Soul sisters is an amazing deck love it. i pulled it apart to make this deck for awhile do miss it though.
Out of the 10 games we played vs dredge I won all 10 of them and this was my first time actually playing living end without gold fishing it. I had heard and read that the MU was pretty one sided in favor for them. I just put a ton of creatures in the yard and waited for him to put out a few good creatures so I could cascade. I didn't maximize value of Faerie Macabre I just targeted cards with the dredge mechanic to slow his game plan down. It got to the point he suggested that the matchup is impossible to win for him so he refused to play anymore. Can't confirm if he is bad or not, but he should have a good amount of experience since he has been playing since the unbanning of grave troll.
For dredge I kept hitting dredge enablers to slow his plan down significantly while throwing everything in the yard. Once he was slowed down I let him amass a good sized board and wiped it out with a cascaded living end which prior to that I targeted his fetchland at EoT with my fulminator mage so he couldn't get creatures back. This was really the only thing I did.
For storm I really just took kodieyost advice with the piles. This was more of a 30/70 in his favor. I won most games due to just killing his creatures/lands or using the faerie to exile cards. Can't really say much since we didn't play much though. Think we played 5 or 6 games and it was decently evenish just I can tell we are not favored in the slightest. I did like targeting all the non pain based lands when possible.
As for leyline I sold mine when they became expensive never really liked them except the blue one for EDH. I wouldn't use either for either matchup as both imho are good turn 0, but are terrible top decks like a late game ancestral visions when you need a immediate answer. That's just me though.
Sorry it took so long to reply I have been playing legacy with friends as we are preparing for a league and we have not played legacy in a few months.
Much appreciated for all the info
My vote would be death and taxes. Very flexible and fun to play even before becoming popular. Decently cheap as well besides vials since almost everything else has been reprinted a few times. It hoses random decks as well with the disruption package and relatively inexpensive to upgrade into legacy thanks to eternal masters.
Alright thanks. I'm still getting used to the deck so figured it was better to ask.
I did this today with natural draws on turn 4 in one game for the win. Really enjoyed the interaction.
How is lost legacy and pull from tomorrow been for you? i liked playing the cards in standard, but am unsure of how they are for modern.
Has anyone tried using a Big game hunter for SB tech yet?
@EarthcraftElves: I used to play the combo when i missed playing splinter twin, but instead of a 3rd Kiki Jiki i used a Necrotic Ooze as a weaker version of Kiki Jiki, Tasigur, and Fulminator Mage since we play thought scours usually to enable snapcaster and delve. Best thing i ever did was wipe out someones manabase once.
Well looks definitely more fun i think ill try putting it in for my next modern event as well.
That's unfortunate i really thought the manabase before was honestly good just painful when you fetched badly or stupidly.
Ramp decks really dont exsist in my meta except one gr tron player who has been on control lately. I mostly switched back to jund since i wanted to stop play reactively 100 percent of the time. Also the fact i have jund made it easier to switch just have not played it roughly since dragons of tarkir so playing catchup with some cards i dont own from playing grixis control. Should have it finished soon enough though.
My meta is weird for my LGS as it rarely changes unless someone gets bored or a new deck peaks there interest. For example till recently everyone had been playing the same decks for the last few years till dredge became a deck then shortly after RW Prison. The next change will be our infect player whos looking for a new deck.
I only noticed when someone mentioned they were making a Eldrazi deck for my lgs so i took a look at them.
On a side note did you try Goblin Rabble Master yet? Also why are we playing so many quick lands now?
Sorry if im asking too many questions im getting back into the deck after playing grixis control after almost 2 years.
My personal belief is dont drop below 2 as it helps in more matchups then just reusing a fulminator mage. Its an amazing card
@Flying Delver: in the primer part for bant eldrazi matchups in the planeswalkers removal for other cards you suggested bringing in the very card you removed.
On a side note i accidentally placed a Sprouting Thrinax in my SB when reaching for 2 jund charms. Turns out it won me the match when we went to top deck wars in a jund vs jund match.
Ya its definitely a powerhouse. I have been playing that combo since playing death and taxes. It also feels more then slightly abusive in this deck. Soul sisters is an amazing deck love it. i pulled it apart to make this deck for awhile do miss it though.