Quote from FlyingDelver »Quote from Pistallion »Question, what do we bring in and take out for Storm? I'm starting with Jadine's list from SCG Chorolette
The SB guide for Storm is included in the Primer. It will show you what to cut and what to bring in.
Lol, Delver. “Guys, I worked hard on this Primer. It’s on the first page of this thread. Please, just read it.”
But then I’d have to go all the way to a different page and scroll down and all that.
(That was all meant to be very lighthearted, by the way. Not a shot at anyone. I know without inflection things can be easily misconstrued.)
Looks like Jund made a pretty good showing at Regionals!
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Before i say anything mind if i ask your reasoning on well truthfully almost every card? Some of the cards you picked have direct upgrades and some are just odd all together. Currently it looks like your trying to build a Mystical Teachings or Gifts Ungiven without adding the actual card in. Currently 10 of the 25 lands either come in tapped or produce colorless making early turn problematic. Is the landbase for budget reasons? I would recommend adding in Opt and Supreme Will as it currently stands just for better selection.
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Try something like Naya Zoo. The primer on this site has multiple verson's ranging from really cheap to expensive. it also will give you access to Goyf's over time if you wish to try different decks. Some key cards i can think off of the top of my head you will end up with depending on how you build will be.
here's a link Zoo Primer
I really like the deck it's fun to play and can be built really well depending on how you build it. I have played both an aggro and midrange version and enjoy both of them. I played zoo for a long time before slowly migrating to Abzan to get the rest of the stuff i wanted for BG/x midrange decks. Zoo has good cards against control and midrange strategy which improved in the midrange version with Bloodbraid elf.
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Not sure if it's possible or not, but could you possibly run it with variations on the shocklands a few times after you get done? For example 1 of each, 2-1 split with a 5th or 6th basic once again alternating shocks and basics, 2-2 split with alternating shocks, and 2-1-1 splits alternating which shock has 2 for me after your done with the 24 or 25 calculation. Truthfully i have been noticing a lot of players in my area seeming to take out my red sources if they have a LD plan in the deck they are using. Mostly i am curious to see what manabase would be optimal via a simulator in a meta with PTE, GQ, Tech Edge, FoR, and LD creatures and spells.
EDIT:
@ FlyingDelver: Not sure exactly why, but a lot of people always seem to mulligan either very rarely keeping questionable hands or hardcore for a single hate card which then end up losing them the game. I was gonna ask if you would mind bringing back your Keep or mulligan scenario you had awhile back if you have the time.
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Really love your list was playing it for a bit. have been playing marchesa for a bit since i was buying this deck slowly. Next payday ill have my deck completely done thankfully
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I use grave pact and dictate for control. I added in vindictive lich and have been having few problems with aggro, midrange, control matchups. My meta is roughly between 70 to 80 percent meta.
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Midrange classic Jund is not at its best right now why would we imitate a deck not doing well? Its a step back not forward. I think Cryptic Command is our biggest advantage why would we toss it aside? We can outgrind a ton of decks in modern from aggro, control, midrange, tempo, and even combo due to the engine of Lightning bolt, Snapcaster Mage, Kolaghan's Command, Cryptic Command. Our biggest issue is GY hate which we can either hate via EE or Echoing Truth if we can't counter it. I'm a big supporter of trying to figure out a good suite of counters we would universally accept as other then x cryptic and x spell snare we all typically use something different. Trying to figure out a less painful manabase would be a huge help for newer players of grixis control or those who fight a lot of aggro decks. Would also be a great idea for someone new to take over the primer and restructure it to better suit a primer to get more people into it as currently its well very outdated and unhelpful. Look at the jund primer compaired to ours and see how insightful it is. Even some decks which are new have better primers then ours with a better information. Which for a control deck is bad we should have it updated with matchups, tips and tricks, card options, auto includes, bare skeleton list.
Sorry if its a bit random im out with the family at the car show.
EDIT: If anything needs and explanation feel free to ask and when I get home I will writ out my thought as to why.
@ Wolf Julio: im running 4 bolts 2 push, 2 terminates, and 1 anger of the gods. If I saw more eldrazitron or deaths shadow in my meta I would probably play 2-3 bolts, 2-3 push, 4 terminate. With a 2/3 or 3/2 splits with bolt and push. I love anger main as it hoses aggro and various CoCo decks pretty badly.
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I still wont play it. The matchups were good against we dont need it ancestral visions becomes a win more card. The bad matchups we have im glad i removed the card for actual answers which helped. Ancestral visions is just a win more card that blinds people with card advantage. Tons of people argue it helps against BG/x decks, but we were already favored in those matchups to begin with imho. I have won against UR/x decks with 4 ancestral visions more often then not because truthfully while the card is powerful its not the thing that out this deck over the top. What pushed grixis into a tiered deck was Tasigur and K-command. Grixis was tier 1 before ancestral visions and i will personally not play a mediocre card thats just a win more. All of your scenarios where drawning multiples automatically puts you 4 turns behind. If you drew anything else Serum Visions, K-command, Cryptic, removal, counter gives you a chance.
4 snapcaster mage, 3 Tasigur, 2 creeping tarpit removal was already live long before i decided to play 2 baby jace. Most decks other then grixis and jund start having a steep drop off for removal. Most removal commonly used is 4 bolts, 2-4 terminates, 2-4 push, 1-2 abrupt decay, 1-2 maelstrom pusle, 1-3 2cmc black removal, 2-4 Lightning Helix, 4 path, 1-2 dismember, 1 beast within. Most removal in decks that are not Grixis, Jund, Junk and to some extent Jeskai drops down to about 5 or 2 with some exceptions. Please dont tell me 2 creatures alone turn on all the removal when a standard grixis control list has 5 creatures 2 manlands. Personally i love a 2nd turn creature jace or tasigur both are highly useful drops on that turn. Some days i dont play them till late in the game though depending on the matchup.
Ya was hoping to avoid using it tbh guess ill have to put them in the SB after all.
I have had no problems with him against voice or finks decks. He was mostly a way to deal with goblins in our meta and he just fit in well. Ill probably be dropping him for surgical extractions though since i prefer echoing truth in more matchups.
Sorry if it comes across as being rude thats not my intention.
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I hate to admit it as a former twin player myself, but i truly agree with your comment as to why twin was banned and should remain banned. Ever since its banning i can see the cancer like effect it had on the format both locally and at bigger tournaments. I have seen more ur/x decks now then i ever have before and it truely has been more enjoyable to me as a player.
I also hate to say a lot of decks twin suppressed have now started popping up. Some of these decks while extremely creative are just as unhealthy and cancerous one of which is lantern control. Anyone who has either played it or plaued against it should understand my reasoning as to why. I only named this deck as my friend recently lost and raged to it so it was fresh in my mind and playing against a new player who has not tested properly with it is unbelievably annoying imho. I feel without the fact modern used to have "can this deck beat twins turn 4 or stall it enough to win" we will continue to see it both evolve to greater heights and see new and creative decks. While at the same time promoting some greater number of unhealthy decks to prosper then there used to be.
Also i would like to see stoneforge mystic unbanned. I feel it would promote more decks with white to pop up as a more dominant color then just as a splash. Maybe though im just hoping to see mardu and esper decks to take advantage of it. Does anyone think this could get unbanned?
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I once suggested Aether Vials as well when i started playing this again after Twins banning. Problem is what would we use them on? Usually our curve is on 1cmc for almost all out sisters, 2cmc for our beaters and champion then 4-5 cmc for Ranger and Archangel. After playing with the card in death and taxes i can say if you want to use it to drop turn 1 threats we may as well use the mana instead as it's not efficient. The other problem is we don't have any way to really abuse it unlike deck like slivers (lords, hate, protection), merfolk (lords and bounce), knights (lords and protection), goblins (lords) or death and taxes (flicker package, hate). Turn 1 i wanna play a sister for the possible lifegain and even if there not playing creatures turn 1 it means im swinging dmg next turn. So to use it effectively we would probably have to change up the build to suit the Vial
Does 3 Gavony Township mess up your early mana? Why no coco?
@deathstroke99 long time no chat, but as for return to the ranks i would leave it out if you side in RIP. Thats just me though since i generally muli for the card i need after the first game
(and yes going to 3 cards for a RIP against storm was worth it since they conceded turn 2 when i dropped it). The best thing to do against control is 1 for 1 them all of our threats are cheap so force them to answer them. Nothing feels as amusing as knowing they just wasted a wrath of god on your single pridemate.