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  • posted a message on Any unique decks out there?
    I had a Star Wars deck with Ravos, Soultender and Silas Renn, Seeker Adept. The names just fit as a Sith lord and apprentice. It had

    Lightsabers
    Sith initiates
    Death Star
    Star Destroyers
    Darth Malgus
    Force Lightning
    Droids


    I had some cards representing various force powers (Force of Will, Force Away, etc) and some other stuff that doesn't come to mind right now.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So here's an interesting hypothetical
    You need to give this a rest. You're looking for validation of your magic-playing morals.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Is it gentlemanly?
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Quote from ProfessorWhen »
    It's in reference to not attacking someone for lethal because they will scoop out of spite to deny you triggers. You know, that thing that you said in the comment I quoted.
    I mean, I said a lot of things, might have been clearer if you'd removed my second and third paragraph.

    Also I found it hard to follow because I don't think it's a great metaphor. Taking away the ball implies that the game is over if you attack him, which obviously isn't true in the edric case. Maybe a closer metaphor would be "don't beat him in the game because if you do, he'll punch you." Although that's also not a great metaphor because speed-scooping, while a bit dickish, is technically acceptable in the rules. So then I'm not sure what a good metaphor would be that doesn't sound stupid. Also I'm not much for sports (surprise!) so my imagination here is limited.

    If someone sat down to play EDH, with complete understanding of the rules but not the "gentleman's agreement", there's a decent chance they'd speed-scoop because it is, in some regards, the correct play. So if you want to say that it shouldn't be done, you'd better be able to explain why it should be part of a gentleman's agreement AND you'd better also be following that agreement. From what we know of blkh, it seems like all he does is play high-powered decks his opponents hate and refuses to change, so I'd say he doesn't have much room to demand that his opponents follow any kind of gentleman's agreement. So I'm inclined to side with his opponent on this one.


    It may not have been the best metaphor but it essentially plays on the idea of not letting the immature dictate the scope of the game. You have to ask yourself where you draw the line. If you really want to win then cheating may be the correct play, just like spite scooping could be the correct play.

    Or maybe playing a deck beyond the power level of your playgroup is the correct play? This is not a good road to travel.


    What is clear is that the issue between blkh and his playgroup goes both ways. But as far as the question of the thread goes, mature people allow the game to play out without trying to exploit odd loopholes such as those that come about in multiplayer.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Cards that create unusual artifact tokens? (Bloodforged Battle-Axe, Gold Tokens etc)
    Metrognome creates 1/1 gnomes.
    Serpent Generator creates 1/1 snakes that give POISON!
    Bottle of Suleiman creates a 5/5 djinn... maybe.
    Diamond Kaleidoscope creates 0/1 prisms.
    Hornet Cannon and The Hive create 1/1 insects.

    That's for the weird old artifact creature stuff.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Is it gentlemanly?
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Quote from ProfessorWhen »
    Quote from DirkGently »
    I think there's one important element that I don't think anyone has mentioned here: Deterrence. If player A knows that player B will response-scoop to a lethal attack to deny triggers, that may cause them to reevaluate and not attack for lethal. It's not much of a bargaining chip, but it's the last one you've got. Even if it has a small chance of saving you, it's still the "optimal" play. And if you don't follow through on it, then no one has reason to think you will in the future, and will always just attack knowing you won't actually concede. So conceding may well be the "optimal" competitive play.

    I concur with lyonhaert: it's a legal part of the game, and as long as you aren't following the gentleman's agreements of "don't play super annoying edric decks" already, there's no reason for anyone else to follow the gentleman's agreement of "don't response-scoop to deny triggers". If your group is cEDH and decides that response-scooping is disallowed, then great, but unless it's made off-limits it's technically fair game in a competitive setting.

    Also, previous arguments that playing high-powered decks vs low powered decks without approval is bad sportmanship and cowardly still apply.


    yeah... That's like letting the kid who owns the ball win because he'll take it and leave if he loses.
    Sorry, I'm lost, what is that analogy in reference to?


    It's in reference to not attacking someone for lethal because they will scoop out of spite to deny you triggers. You know, that thing that you said in the comment I quoted.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Is it gentlemanly?
    Quote from DirkGently »
    I think there's one important element that I don't think anyone has mentioned here: Deterrence. If player A knows that player B will response-scoop to a lethal attack to deny triggers, that may cause them to reevaluate and not attack for lethal. It's not much of a bargaining chip, but it's the last one you've got. Even if it has a small chance of saving you, it's still the "optimal" play. And if you don't follow through on it, then no one has reason to think you will in the future, and will always just attack knowing you won't actually concede. So conceding may well be the "optimal" competitive play.

    I concur with lyonhaert: it's a legal part of the game, and as long as you aren't following the gentleman's agreements of "don't play super annoying edric decks" already, there's no reason for anyone else to follow the gentleman's agreement of "don't response-scoop to deny triggers". If your group is cEDH and decides that response-scooping is disallowed, then great, but unless it's made off-limits it's technically fair game in a competitive setting.

    Also, previous arguments that playing high-powered decks vs low powered decks without approval is bad sportmanship and cowardly still apply.


    yeah... That's like letting the kid who owns the ball win because he'll take it and leave if he loses.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from theCreecH »
    So playing with Paradox Engine in Edgar Markov Vampire Value Town has seen me begin the "so, thoughts on the power level of x card and do you think it should be banned or is it fine and what is the reasoning of your argument?" at my local game shop in regards to the aforementioned P-Engine.

    I've gone back and read over the last 5 or so pages back and did see a little discussion about it. The greatest argument for not banning I have heard is that it has a 5 cmc, requires a deck to be built around and can be dealt with in most situations (except there's this thing called I bury you in the stack, but I digress).

    I'm not sure I agree with the "requires your deck to be built around it" argument so I would like to hear others thoughts as to how it stands right now. Is it on the RC radar? Have they had discussions about it? What are their thoughts about the card and how it interacts with the EDH format environment that it currently exists in?


    I suspect it is going to go the route of PoK: people complaining about it on the forum are going to get shot down with the "play more removal scrub" argument while it slowly causes problems in less competitive playgroups. Eventually the RC will catch on and realize that just because self-imposed restrictions and competitive playgroups can minimize its impact doesn't mean that it is a good thing to have.

    Really, cards that give this degree of tempo advantage as a (nearly) self-contained engine always need to be looked at because they can run away with games. I liked PoK, but I understood why it was bad for the RC's stated goal. I like Paradox Engine too. But I'm sure it will eventually get banned.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day - HIATUS
    Quote from Dunharrow »
    Quote from LouCypher »
    Hum of the Radix



    For when you really, really hate your local artifact player.


    I now have a reason to play mycosynth lattice. Maybe in Green Devotion? Make it impossible for opponents to cast anything while I power through with Nykthos.


    Keep in mind that Lattice doesn't make their nonartifact spells into artifacts. They're just colorless.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Not sure if this has come up much, but right now #1 on my would-ban list is probably expropriate. The card simply has no fun or fair use and it's basically always a game win. I'd much rather play against coalition victory - at least coalition victory can be countered via removal or strip mine or whatever. And at least if it resolves it wins quickly.

    Stuff like ad nauseum etc are only played by people trying to break the game, but expropriate is popular with basically everyone and it's always a festival of misery when it gets played. First you have to convince the rest of the table that yes, they SHOULD give up their permanent, and then you have to wait for permanents to be chosen, and then you have to explain that no, they can't sac the permanent in response, and then you have to sit through another eternally long turn, and then you all lose anyway because the card is stupid and essentially can't be interacted with outside of counterspells.


    What you are describing is a personal problem with extra turns. This card is basically blue's Insurrection. When your argument is "the card is stupid," it's not a problem with the card.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Chainer — In the Darkness of Dreams
    Quote from lyonhaert »
    I probably have both Infernal Tribute and Claws of Gix from when I used to run Spine of Ish Sah, but they serve another purpose aside from squeezing out an additional activation of Coffers/Nykthos with Crucible: getting rid of Necropotence if it becomes a liability or if I just want to activate it 20 times and not exile any of it.


    A cool tech with Necropotence is that the exile is a trigger, not a replacement effect. What this means is that if you discard something you can put the exile on the stack then reanimate it with Chainer. Its oracle wording is similar to Planar Void rather than Rest in Peace.

    Edit: I forgot Necro got reprinted with updated wording. I guess it's not as obscure a detail now.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Chainer — In the Darkness of Dreams
    I've had a Chainer deck since around 2007 and I cannot overstate the amazing effectiveness of Sadistic Hypnotist. That card can win games almost on its own.

    Another great card that I enjoy is Memory Jar. Timing it right can be difficult, but it can serve the dual role of filling graveyards and drawing you cards.

    Defense Grid is a useful card against countermagic since most of your instant-speed effects are coming from activated abilities of Chainer and your sac outlets.

    I have not felt the need to run Tortured Existence in my list. I replaced it with Dark Deal and haven't looked back.

    I was not impressed with Harvester of Souls, instead opting for Grim Haruspex and Smothering Abomination (this one certainly feels on-theme as well).

    I also replaced mt Infernal Tribute with Vampiric Rites since I found I was more interested in sacrificing tokens over non-creatures. The lower CMC is nice, too.

    You probably don't need Ice Cauldron (even though it's a hilarious card) and Gemstone Array. I might add in Expedition Map if you are worried about getting access to Urborg/Coffers/Nykthos.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Is it gentlemanly?
    Just consider this: spiteful plays like this encourage people to rely as little as possible on their opponents being in the game for their win conditions. So instead of playing Edric, Spymaster of Trest aggro/control you'll start seeing more Thrasios, Triton Hero solitaire.

    The decks that can be disrupted most by the "spite scoop" also happen to be the ones that allow more interaction. In my opinion, it is far better to let they player have his win and preserve an environment of interaction and counterplays.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Goodstuff = good fun, or fun-suck?
    "Goodstuff" tends to be code for "too mainstream for me *adjusts thick-rimmed glasses.*" Even in the comments here you can see the implication that someone who makes a goodstuff deck is not creative, not cohesive, lacking synergy, etc. And there's always a different threshold for this, although it lacks any objective measure.

    The argument is a variation of the "dirty net-decking scum" sentiment that some people espouse. The implication here is that if one does not use obscure, thematic, or downright bad cards it makes them a lesser deckbuilder. Anyone I've ever seen complaining about net-decking or goodstuff has been doing it from a sense of smug superiority; because normal people are fine with letting others play how they like without judgement.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Best targets for Jarad's activated ability?
    Not a specific creature, but Berserk is a really great way to make something a huge threat with Jarad.

    Ulvenwald Hydra is usually large.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Naya Token Card Draw Options?
    Steelshaper's Gift/Open the Armory and Enlightened Tutor to make sure you can get your skullclamp.

    Doesn't work with Sidar, but in my tokens deck I have Elemental Bond to combo with anthems.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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