MTG Salvation

Quote from Uber_Mexico

Animals eat each other every day, it's completely natural.

My ripping and tearing teeth are there for a reason.

Edit: FYI anecdotal evidence is unable to "confirm" anything

Yes, for carnivores. There is no good evidence that at any time in our evolution (until very recently) were humans purely or even mostly carnivorous. Also, because we have the capacity to understand suffering, ethics, and consequences we can choose to rise above our natures. In many primate species, it's perfectly natural for a male to kill (and eat) the children of females so that they will be ready to mate sooner. Is it OK for humans to do that?

Compare those teeth to any real carnivore or even any omnivore. You'll find your canines are puny things not truly designed for carnivory. The human digestive tract from end to end most closely resembles that of a herbivore with a slight tendency toward omnivory.

Animal emotion has been poorly studied until recently (and still needs more work). Anecdotal evidence is all we have for many species. It doesn't prove anything, but it suggests.

Cheers,
rant

Edit:

Quote from Pacman

Vegans don't, but vegans are very radical, and a vegan lifestyle is indeed not very healthy.

So wrong. I am vegan and have been for about seven years. My doctor says my blood values (I'm no doctor, so I'm not sure what those numbers are and I don't have my health records on hand) could be in a text book as the normal healthy human values. I am slightly overweight, but that is mostly due to working a desk job and playing too much M:tG. I heal quickly and my hair and nails grow stupidly fast. So, veganism is perfectly healthy. It also doesn't require as much planning and worrying about your diet as most people believe. Eat a varied diet and take a multivitamin and you will probably be fine.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from Nim

So, Regrowth or Sengir Nosferatu...

Regrowth gets back out CA spells (Decree/Tusker/ect...), Sengir is an evasive beater with a form of protection.

I could go with either.
`Nim

Agreed. I think I lean slightly towards the Nosferatu but Regrowth can be very powerful.

Any reason to take the Stomping Ground or Garrison?

Cheers,
rant

Wow. I really find the lack of empathy and compassion on this thread disturbing. It's made me vaguely ill, honestly.

More and more research and anecdotal evidence is confirming that animals feel most of the same emotions that we do. Many species laugh, play, deceive, sulk, and suffer. The animals we use for food are complex, feeling beings. I really don't care whether they are intelligent or not. They can all suffer. It's the suffering I'm opposed to (well, that and environmental degradation). If intelligence was the only criteria for wether or not we should kill/eat on another being, than we should stop eating pigs. They are more intelligent than dogs or cats. Also, if intelligence is the criteria, then you shouldn't be opposed if an alien race came down and started eating people if their intelligence was the same order of magnitude greater than ours as our intelligence is to cows or chickens.

As far as insects go, I do my best not to kill them, too. I currently have a pet that eats them, but when that pet passes on, I won't have another. Insects that attack me (mosquitos, etc.) I will kill. Every being has the right to defend itself. I realize that lots of insects are killed in the farming process. That's unavoidable. Still, by eating as low on the food chain as possible, I cause the least amount of suffering.

I'm a vegan, but I don't have a problem with keeping pets provided that pet is given excellent care and it wasn't taken out of the wild. Many vegans differ on this point.

Cheers,
rant

The entirety of modern meat (and dairy) production is both unethical and unsustainable. There is tremendous suffering inflicted on the animals who cannot perform any natural behaviors, are overcrowded, are not allowed to move around, are dosed up on hormones and antibiotics, etc. Add to this the tremendous amount of wastes produced--including the powerful greenhouse gas methane--and the consumption of resources that could be used to produce even more plant-based food for people, and you have a practice that is basically (IMO) evil. Free-range organic is a step in the right direction, but it only solves some of the problems of meat/dairy production.

Diet for a New America is the reason I jumped from vegetarian to vegan. I have never regretted this choice. Both my physical and mental health have improved since going vegan. I feel like it makes just a little bit closer to being part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

Cheers,
rant

I have played with the diamond a lot in constructed (Vintage when it was Type 1 and casual) and I can say it's brutal. It accelerates you a turn and fixes mana. It does cost a land and does complicate mulligan decisions, I'll grant you that. But, we have several really big spells. We can use the acceleration.

I also think the Rude Awakening will table. Tooth and Nail tabled. How much better/worse is Rude Awakening?

Cheers,
rant

You guys convinved me to vote Medic, but I do want to point out that I've had good results with Woeleecher. It's got a big butt and 3 power. That's hard to attack into in Limited. Also, it's got an ability that will often be relevant. However, the Medic does seem potentially ridiculous.

Cheers,
rant

Some good stuff here and some stuff that might be good. The two things that jumped out at me were Crop Rotation and Rude Awakening. Mox Diamond, Braids, and Head Games are also playable. Some good blue and white picks here as well if we want to explore other color combinations.

Rude Awakening absolutely wins games. However, it's another really expensive spell. We have a number of those already.

Crop Rotation fixes mana very nicely. If we had some really broken land (Maze of Ith, Gaea's Cradle) it hunts it up nicely.

Mox Diamond is fantastic accel at the price of some card advantage. Rules on turns 1-3; probably weak later on.

I'm not sure we can make really good use of Braids, but it's a powerful card we should at least discuss.

Not sure what to think of Head Games. Is it good?

Sower of Temptation and Rainbow Efreet are really good blue creatures. Blue got cut from us hard last pack. Can we pick it up now expecting it to get cut next pack? I don't think so, but it is tempting.

Right now, before discussion, if I had to rank the picks, I would say:

1) Crop Rotation
2) Mox Diamond
3) Braids, Cabal Minion
4) Rude Awakening


I can't wait to hear what the rest of you have to say. This looks like another tough pick.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from Dragoon26

It doesn't just "draw you 2-3 cards for no mana." You essentially have to sacrifice playing spells/lands for 2-3 turns. Does "T: Draw a card. Skip your next turn." sound very appealing? Not to me. It's just not the right card for this deck.

The card advantage will not matter in the long run because it's not consistent enough to be useful.

It's a great card for a contollish deck, which is exactly the type of deck we are probably building. We may not have much to do in those turns, so drawing cards will be welcome. I'm still not 100% sure I'm right, but I don't think this pick is that cut and dried. Other than the first pick of pack one, this has been the toughest choice we've had.

I wouldn't be unhappy to take the Signet. I'm just voting for the Library.

Cheers,
rant

I voted Library. The argument for the signet almost won me over, but in the end I went for card advantage. If we even draw 2-3 cards off of it, it's worth it (what other spell allows you to draw 2-3 for no mana?).

I'm still not sure this was the right choice, but I am sure The Abyss is not the pick here.

Cheers,
rant

That is the issue: We could probably make use of all three cards. While The Abyss is really strong, there are a number of ways to foil it: tokens, pro-black, artifact creatures, creatureless deck, and creatures that you want to sacrifice. For us, it combos nicely with Chameleon Colossus and Kokusho.

The Library can provide brutal card advantage in an uncouterable form. Since we are not an aggro deck, it is likely we'll get at least 2-3 cards off it, as long as we have it in the early game. Late game, it still isn't useless, as it can tap for mana.

Disclaimer: I've never played with either of these cards. I've seen The Abyss go to work in a casual deck built around it, but I've never even see a Library in play. They both look very strong, but I'm working off of theory.

The Signet is solid and consistent. It accelerates and fixes. However, it does not match the power of the first two.

Still leaning towards the Library.

Cheers,
rant

Sorry I missed the last pick, guys. Busy weekend. I would've voted for Tusker anyway.

Damn, this is a hard pick. I like the Signet, but there's a chance it could table. I doubt Abyss or Library will. But which of these two to take? I really don't know. Passing either one is really painful. The Abyss is great but there are many ways to foil it. Library is great, but will we be able to use it often enough? I don't know

I'm leaning towards the Library, but we need more discussion of this pick.

Cheers,
rant

I also poop on Counterspell. Did you guys not play when it was running rampant?

I want these:

• Thunder Spirit
  
• Eternal Witness
  
• Zodiac Dragon
  
• Mutilate
  
• Char
  
• Gilded Drake
  
• Scroll Rack
  
• Ebon Dragon
  
• Tornado Elemental
  
• Magma Jet
  

These are just the ones that came to me first. Thunder Spirit and Eternal Witness are two of my all-time favorite creatures.

Cheers,
rant

Hi folks,

I was thinking of using this deck for regionals since I have almost all the parts and I'm not sure my pet deck of choice (TarmoRack) is that competitive anymore. My only issue is that I only own two Cryptic Command and I'm not likely to get more before Regionals. Can this deck run on just 2 CCs and what would you do with those two slots? I was thinking about Wipe Away, Sage of Fables, Mulldrifter, and Nevermaker but I haven't tested any of those yet.

Thanks!

Cheers,
rant

I'd give this a try because I love new formats and experimenting. I agree with the poster who said the card pool should be bigger. I'd say 4 or 5 packs.

Cheers
rant

Nomad Mythmaker will allow you to return auras that get destroyed to play. I'd think about Meas Enchantress so you can get some card draw in there. Pariah is a nice aura to use in a deck like this one.

Cheers,
rant